[Lnc-business] Seeking clarification on committee alternates

Caryn Ann Harlos caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
Sun Mar 4 19:58:12 EST 2018


Hi Sam, I apologize if my question was confusing but that isn't what I was
trying to find out.

I am not speaking of the LNC at all but in person committee meetings.  What
does absence mean there?  In means that in LNC meeting because we have a
Policy Manual rule for that regarding free substitution.  We do not have
that for committees.

And thus we have a situation in our bylaws where absent can mean many
different things apparently.

In short, our bylaws when it comes to alternates of all stripes and email
ballots in particular are terrible.  And that is insulting to the word
terrible.

On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 2:42 PM, Sam Goldstein <sam.goldstein at lp.org> wrote:

> At in person LNC meetings alternates only votes if they are sitting at the
> table in place of the Regional rep.  That can be due to an absence, vacancy
> or because the rep gave up the seat for a period of time.  They can be
> recognized for discussion at the will of the body.  I would assume the same
> applies to other committee meetings.
>
> During an email ballot in many cases the alternate may vote but his/her
> vote is superseded if the representative also votes on the issue.
>
> Sam
>
> ---
> Sam Goldstein
> Libertarian National Committee
> 317-850-0726 Cell
>
> On 2018-03-03 03:49, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>
>> Or does this Bylaw override the general principle that alternates only
>>    fill vacancies but not absences?
>>    == 2016 LP Bylaws and Convention Rules w 2016 JC Rules
>>     5. Ranked alternates may be named by the appointing bodies to fill any
>>        vacancies or absences in the Convention Committees.==
>>
>>    It seems like it does, but I wanted to be clear as an alternate had
>>    asked.  So absent that above bylaw, then an alternate would only fill a
>>    vacancy not an absence.
>>    And an esoteric question - what does "absences" mean here?  Does the
>>    word absence mean something different in email voting?  Is that made
>>    clear anywhere or is it an implication?  It seems like our email bylaw
>>    is not talking about absent persons but absent votes.  But that is not
>>    entirely clear.  This is talking about absent persons... or can it also
>>    mean absent votes?  Wouldn't that then pretty much then allow the free
>>    substitution of committee alternates contrary to the footnote in our
>>    Policy Manual that there needs to be an explicit permission for that.
>>    But if absent means absent vote in one section, why is not that here?
>>
>>    On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 1:40 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos
>>    <[1]carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>    At an in-person or electronic (not email voting) meeting, an alternate
>>    can only debate with consent of the members and cannot vote.... is that
>>    correct?
>>    --
>>    In Liberty,
>>    Caryn Ann Harlos
>>    Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>    Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
>>    - [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>    Communications Director, [3]Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>    A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>    We defend your rights
>>    And oppose the use of force
>>    Taxation is theft
>>
>>    --
>>    In Liberty,
>>    Caryn Ann Harlos
>>    Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>    Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
>>    - [4]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>    Communications Director, [5]Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>    A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>    We defend your rights
>>    And oppose the use of force
>>    Taxation is theft
>>
>> References
>>
>>    1. mailto:carynannharlos at gmail.com
>>    2. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>    3. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>    4. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>    5. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
   Hi Sam, I apologize if my question was confusing but that isn't what I
   was trying to find out.
   I am not speaking of the LNC at all but in person committee meetings.
   What does absence mean there?  In means that in LNC meeting because we
   have a Policy Manual rule for that regarding free substitution.  We do
   not have that for committees.
   And thus we have a situation in our bylaws where absent can mean many
   different things apparently.
   In short, our bylaws when it comes to alternates of all stripes and
   email ballots in particular are terrible.  And that is insulting to the
   word terrible.

   On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 2:42 PM, Sam Goldstein <[1]sam.goldstein at lp.org>
   wrote:

     At in person LNC meetings alternates only votes if they are sitting
     at the table in place of the Regional rep.  That can be due to an
     absence, vacancy or because the rep gave up the seat for a period of
     time.  They can be recognized for discussion at the will of the
     body.  I would assume the same applies to other committee meetings.
     During an email ballot in many cases the alternate may vote but
     his/her vote is superseded if the representative also votes on the
     issue.
     Sam
     ---
     Sam Goldstein
     Libertarian National Committee
     [2]317-850-0726 Cell
     On 2018-03-03 03:49, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:

     Or does this Bylaw override the general principle that alternates
     only
        fill vacancies but not absences?
        == 2016 LP Bylaws and Convention Rules w 2016 JC Rules
         5. Ranked alternates may be named by the appointing bodies to
     fill any
            vacancies or absences in the Convention Committees.==
        It seems like it does, but I wanted to be clear as an alternate
     had
        asked.  So absent that above bylaw, then an alternate would only
     fill a
        vacancy not an absence.
        And an esoteric question - what does "absences" mean here?  Does
     the
        word absence mean something different in email voting?  Is that
     made
        clear anywhere or is it an implication?  It seems like our email
     bylaw
        is not talking about absent persons but absent votes.  But that
     is not
        entirely clear.  This is talking about absent persons... or can
     it also
        mean absent votes?  Wouldn't that then pretty much then allow the
     free
        substitution of committee alternates contrary to the footnote in
     our
        Policy Manual that there needs to be an explicit permission for
     that.
        But if absent means absent vote in one section, why is not that
     here?
        On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 1:40 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos
        <[1][3]carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
        At an in-person or electronic (not email voting) meeting, an
     alternate
        can only debate with consent of the members and cannot vote....
     is that
        correct?
        --
        In Liberty,
        Caryn Ann Harlos
        Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
        Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
     Washington)
        - [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
        Communications Director, [3]Libertarian Party of Colorado
        Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
        A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
        We defend your rights
        And oppose the use of force
        Taxation is theft
        --
        In Liberty,
        Caryn Ann Harlos
        Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
        Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
     Washington)
        - [4]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
        Communications Director, [5]Libertarian Party of Colorado
        Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
        A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
        We defend your rights
        And oppose the use of force
        Taxation is theft
     References
        1. mailto:[4]carynannharlos at gmail.com
        2. mailto:[5]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
        3. [6]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
        4. mailto:[7]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
        5. [8]http://www.lpcolorado.org/

References

   1. mailto:sam.goldstein at lp.org
   2. tel:317-850-0726
   3. mailto:carynannharlos at gmail.com
   4. mailto:carynannharlos at gmail.com
   5. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
   6. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
   7. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
   8. http://www.lpcolorado.org/


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