[Lnc-business] Platform Committee
Caryn Ann Harlos
caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
Thu May 17 11:57:09 EDT 2018
That is certainly the appointing body's purview. However no work or votes
would be affected. It is undisputed that Mr. Starr holds at least one
primary seat and would remain on the Platform Committee. It is up to the
appointing bodies to determine if they are comfortable with him holding *two
primary seats* so that the CA alternate remains an alternate.
Mr. Starr certainly is a very productive and active member of the Committee
and was instrumental in pointing out potential issues with some proposals.
On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
wrote:
> *Please cite for me where I said any rules were broken. *
>
> Now Ms. Robson is directly affected. Is she the CA primary representative
> or not? It seems to me quite obvious she is. That is what I stated on the
> list. I asked for any disagreement. None was offered. Then a few weeks
> later at the in-person meeting I was told that is not correct which was
> news to both myself and to Ms. Robson.
>
> In line with the prior Committee decision, there is no challenge to that
> from the Committee if that is the position Mr. Starr wishes to take. It
> was agreed by the Committee that this is the purview of the appointing
> bodies. Ergo, my letting the appointing bodies be aware which is my duty
> to do so.
>
> What I did say is that I was making the appointing bodies aware to
> determine if this is their intent and if they are comfortable with the
> situation. That is all. The Committee already decided no rules were
> broken. *On that, there is no confusion.*
>
> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 9:35 AM, Elizabeth Van Horn <
> elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org> wrote:
>
>> Caryn Ann, I saw your prior email where you told about Aaron Starr
>> stating he was still holding both the LNC alternate and LPCA rep position.
>>
>> It's allowed. No rules were broken. He can do this.
>>
>> What could be done for the *future*, is a change in the bylaws to modify
>> how platform committee members are appointed.
>> ---
>> Elizabeth Van Horn
>>
>>
>> On 2018-05-17 11:28, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>
>> PS I never indicated any confusion in voting for that meeting. I said
>> there is a confusion about whether or not Aaron is both an LNC Primary (no
>> longer an alternate) and the CA Primary.
>>
>> There *could* have been voting confusion if Mr. Starr did not agree at
>> the very beginning that he would remain in the LNC seat for each vote.
>> There was no guarantee that would be the case for the future in-person
>> meeting or any email votes.
>>
>> Thus---- the very real issue for the appointing bodies to be aware of and
>> decide if that is acceptable to them or not.
>>
>> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 9:24 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>> caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Elizabeth your email proves there IS a confusion. Despite my request to
>>> indicate if there was any disagreements with that email, at the in-person
>>> meeting Mr. Starr then stated he did disagree.
>>>
>>> He stated that Mimi Robson *is not the CA Representative but remains
>>> the CA Alternate and that he is BOTH an LNC Primary Representative and the
>>> CA representative.*
>>>
>>> So I think it is obvious there is confusion as you are confused for good
>>> reason.
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 9:18 AM, Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business <
>>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> No need for the LNC to withdraw the appointment of Aaron Starr to the
>>>> platform committee.
>>>>
>>>> Jeffrey Miron, and LNC appointee to the platform committee, resigned
>>>> back in April.
>>>>
>>>> This is an exact quote of Caryn Ann's message to the platform committee
>>>> on 4-18-2018. (which can be read in the reflector list)
>>>> ----
>>>> "Hello Committee, unfortunately Mr. Miron has to resign from the
>>>> committee
>>>> and extends his apologies.
>>>>
>>>> Mr. Starr would now move up to an LNC primary appointee and Ms. Robson
>>>> would move up to the CA primary representative. In light of the prior
>>>> issue, please advise immediately if there is a disagreement with this
>>>> prior
>>>> to my submission of these changes to HQ."
>>>> ----
>>>> On the topic of Aaron Starr moving into the LNC appointed role, there
>>>> was no disagreement, by instead ensued discussion about alternates in
>>>> general, including the Florida alternate, etc.
>>>>
>>>> At the platform committee meeting, which was in Columbus, Ohio on May
>>>> 13 & 14, there was no confusion as to what votes, or roles, anyone had.
>>>> Aaron Starr voted as the LNC appointee and Mimi Robson voted as the
>>>> LPCA representative.
>>>>
>>>> I was there representing LPIN on the platform committee, this is how I
>>>> know.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> Elizabeth Van Horn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2018-05-17 00:50, Starchild via Lnc-business wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't think it's acceptable for one person to monopolize multiple
>>>>> seats on a committee even if nobody finds it confusing (a
>>>>> conclusion I
>>>>> question).
>>>>>
>>>>> I brought the situation to the California LP Executive Committee's
>>>>> attention in the hopes they would correct it by withdrawing their
>>>>> appointment, but they did not. Possibly because it was by then too
>>>>> late
>>>>> for a state affiliate to make a new appointment. That being the
>>>>> case, I
>>>>> think we should act to correct the situation on our end.
>>>>>
>>>>> I move that the Libertarian National Committee withdraw its
>>>>> appointment
>>>>> of Aaron Starr to the Platform Committee, and ask for seconds.
>>>>>
>>>>> Love & Liberty,
>>>>>
>>>>> ((( starchild )))
>>>>>
>>>>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>
>>>>> [1]RealReform at earthlink.net
>>>>>
>>>>> (415) 625-FREE
>>>>>
>>>>> @StarchildSF
>>>>>
>>>>> On May 16, 2018, at 8:55 PM, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Lest any of the readers get the wrong idea:
>>>>> The Platform Committee met this past weekend. Mr. Starr wore the
>>>>> hat
>>>>> of an LNC appointee, and Ms. Robson participated as the CA
>>>>> alternate.
>>>>> There was no confusion. Two different people participated and
>>>>> voted
>>>>> from the two different appointing bodies, each getting one vote on
>>>>> each
>>>>> question.
>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>> On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 3:27 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
>>>>> <[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>>>> Hello I am writing in my capacity as Platform Committee
>>>>> Chair.
>>>>> As the
>>>>> LNC knows, we appointed Aaron Starr as LNC alternate, and as
>>>>> you
>>>>> may
>>>>> not know, subsequent to that date California named Aaron
>>>>> Starr
>>>>> as
>>>>> their
>>>>> primary appointee resulting in him holding two seats: LNC
>>>>> Alternate and
>>>>> CA primary.
>>>>> Since that time, LNC appointee Jeffrey Miron has resigned
>>>>> leaving
>>>>> a
>>>>> vacancy on the LNC appointments. It seems to me that then
>>>>> Mr.
>>>>> Starr
>>>>> would then move into that spot and it seems everyone agrees
>>>>> on
>>>>> that,
>>>>> but this results in Mr. Starr in effect holding two primary
>>>>> appointments, that of LNC and that of California. This can
>>>>> affect
>>>>> voting, gives a potential strategic advantage to Mr. Starr,
>>>>> and
>>>>> leaves
>>>>> the current California alternate unsure if she is now the
>>>>> primary
>>>>> or
>>>>> not. She has not communicated that to me this is my own
>>>>> independent
>>>>> observation (she is a difficult position as she is now the
>>>>> LPCA
>>>>> Chair). Mr. Starr has informed me that he has not vacated
>>>>> any
>>>>> seat
>>>>> and thus holds the two positions. The Committee has decided
>>>>> that
>>>>> there
>>>>> is nothing in RONR or our Bylaws that prevents this
>>>>> situation.
>>>>> At this point, it is in the purview of the appointing bodies
>>>>> (the
>>>>> LNC
>>>>> and California) to decide if they wish to ask, require a
>>>>> choice,
>>>>> leave
>>>>> things be, or some other option available to them. I am
>>>>> cc'ing
>>>>> this
>>>>> information to the California Chair Ms. Robson to forward to
>>>>> her
>>>>> EC if
>>>>> she wishes.
>>>>> If there is any change please let me know.
>>>>> --
>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>>> (Alaska,
>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>>>>> Washington)
>>>>> - [1]Caryn.Ann. [2]Harlos at LP.org
>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>> Chair, Libertarian National Party Platform Committee
>>>>> Member, Libertarian National Party Bylaws Committee
>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>> We defend your rights
>>>>> And oppose the use of force
>>>>> Taxation is theft
>>>>> References
>>>>> 1. mailto:[2]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>>> References
>>>>> 1. [3]mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> 2. [4]mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>
>>>>> References
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
>>>>> 2. mailto:Harlos at LP.org
>>>>> 3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> 4. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> *In Liberty,*
>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>
>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>> *We defend your rights*
>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> *In Liberty,*
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>
>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> *We defend your rights*
>> *And oppose the use of force*
>> *Taxation is theft*
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> --
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> *We defend your rights*
> *And oppose the use of force*
> *Taxation is theft*
>
--
--
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
*We defend your rights*
*And oppose the use of force*
*Taxation is theft*
-------------- next part --------------
That is certainly the appointing body's purview. However no work or
votes would be affected. It is undisputed that Mr. Starr holds at
least one primary seat and would remain on the Platform Committee. It
is up to the appointing bodies to determine if they are comfortable
with him holding two primary seats so that the CA alternate remains an
alternate.
Mr. Starr certainly is a very productive and active member of the
Committee and was instrumental in pointing out potential issues with
some proposals.
On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 9:50 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos
<[1]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
Please cite for me where I said any rules were broken.
Now Ms. Robson is directly affected. Is she the CA primary
representative or not? It seems to me quite obvious she is. That is
what I stated on the list. I asked for any disagreement. None was
offered. Then a few weeks later at the in-person meeting I was told
that is not correct which was news to both myself and to Ms. Robson.
In line with the prior Committee decision, there is no challenge to
that from the Committee if that is the position Mr. Starr wishes to
take. It was agreed by the Committee that this is the purview of the
appointing bodies. Ergo, my letting the appointing bodies be aware
which is my duty to do so.
What I did say is that I was making the appointing bodies aware to
determine if this is their intent and if they are comfortable with the
situation. That is all. The Committee already decided no rules were
broken. On that, there is no confusion.
On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 9:35 AM, Elizabeth Van Horn
<[2]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org> wrote:
Caryn Ann, I saw your prior email where you told about Aaron Starr
stating he was still holding both the LNC alternate and LPCA rep
position.
It's allowed. No rules were broken. He can do this.
What could be done for the future, is a change in the bylaws to modify
how platform committee members are appointed.
---
Elizabeth Van Horn
On 2018-05-17 11:28, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
PS I never indicated any confusion in voting for that meeting. I said
there is a confusion about whether or not Aaron is both an LNC Primary
(no longer an alternate) and the CA Primary.
There *could* have been voting confusion if Mr. Starr did not agree at
the very beginning that he would remain in the LNC seat for each vote.
There was no guarantee that would be the case for the future in-person
meeting or any email votes.
Thus---- the very real issue for the appointing bodies to be aware of
and decide if that is acceptable to them or not.
On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 9:24 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos
<[3]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
Elizabeth your email proves there IS a confusion. Despite my request
to indicate if there was any disagreements with that email, at the
in-person meeting Mr. Starr then stated he did disagree.
He stated that Mimi Robson is not the CA Representative but remains the
CA Alternate and that he is BOTH an LNC Primary Representative and the
CA representative.
So I think it is obvious there is confusion as you are confused for
good reason.
On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 9:18 AM, Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business
<[4]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
No need for the LNC to withdraw the appointment of Aaron Starr to
the platform committee.
Jeffrey Miron, and LNC appointee to the platform committee, resigned
back in April.
This is an exact quote of Caryn Ann's message to the platform
committee on 4-18-2018. (which can be read in the reflector list)
----
"Hello Committee, unfortunately Mr. Miron has to resign from the
committee
and extends his apologies.
Mr. Starr would now move up to an LNC primary appointee and Ms.
Robson
would move up to the CA primary representative. In light of the
prior
issue, please advise immediately if there is a disagreement with
this prior
to my submission of these changes to HQ."
----
On the topic of Aaron Starr moving into the LNC appointed role,
there was no disagreement, by instead ensued discussion about
alternates in general, including the Florida alternate, etc.
At the platform committee meeting, which was in Columbus, Ohio on
May 13 & 14, there was no confusion as to what votes, or roles,
anyone had.
Aaron Starr voted as the LNC appointee and Mimi Robson voted as the
LPCA representative.
I was there representing LPIN on the platform committee, this is how
I know.
---
Elizabeth Van Horn
On 2018-05-17 00:50, Starchild via Lnc-business wrote:
I don't think it's acceptable for one person to monopolize multiple
seats on a committee even if nobody finds it confusing (a
conclusion I
question).
I brought the situation to the California LP Executive
Committee's
attention in the hopes they would correct it by withdrawing their
appointment, but they did not. Possibly because it was by then
too late
for a state affiliate to make a new appointment. That being the
case, I
think we should act to correct the situation on our end.
I move that the Libertarian National Committee withdraw its
appointment
of Aaron Starr to the Platform Committee, and ask for seconds.
Love & Liberty,
((( starchild )))
At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
[1][5]RealReform at earthlink.net
(415) 625-FREE
@StarchildSF
On May 16, 2018, at 8:55 PM, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business
wrote:
Lest any of the readers get the wrong idea:
The Platform Committee met this past weekend. Mr. Starr wore
the hat
of an LNC appointee, and Ms. Robson participated as the CA
alternate.
There was no confusion. Two different people participated and
voted
from the two different appointing bodies, each getting one vote
on
each
question.
-Alicia
On Tue, May 15, 2018 at 3:27 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via
Lnc-business
<[1][6]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
Hello I am writing in my capacity as Platform Committee
Chair.
As the
LNC knows, we appointed Aaron Starr as LNC alternate, and
as you
may
not know, subsequent to that date California named Aaron
Starr
as
their
primary appointee resulting in him holding two seats: LNC
Alternate and
CA primary.
Since that time, LNC appointee Jeffrey Miron has resigned
leaving
a
vacancy on the LNC appointments. It seems to me that then
Mr.
Starr
would then move into that spot and it seems everyone
agrees on
that,
but this results in Mr. Starr in effect holding two
primary
appointments, that of LNC and that of California. This
can
affect
voting, gives a potential strategic advantage to Mr.
Starr, and
leaves
the current California alternate unsure if she is now the
primary
or
not. She has not communicated that to me this is my own
independent
observation (she is a difficult position as she is now the
LPCA
Chair). Mr. Starr has informed me that he has not
vacated any
seat
and thus holds the two positions. The Committee has
decided
that
there
is nothing in RONR or our Bylaws that prevents this
situation.
At this point, it is in the purview of the appointing
bodies
(the
LNC
and California) to decide if they wish to ask, require a
choice,
leave
things be, or some other option available to them. I am
cc'ing
this
information to the California Chair Ms. Robson to forward
to her
EC if
she wishes.
If there is any change please let me know.
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee
(Alaska,
Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
Washington)
- [1]Caryn.Ann. [2]Harlos at LP.org
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
Chair, Libertarian National Party Platform Committee
Member, Libertarian National Party Bylaws Committee
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
We defend your rights
And oppose the use of force
Taxation is theft
References
1. mailto:[2]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
References
1. [3]mailto:[7]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
2. [4]mailto:[8]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
References
1. mailto:[9]RealReform at earthlink.net
2. mailto:[10]Harlos at LP.org
3. mailto:[11]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
4. mailto:[12]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
--
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
- [13]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
Communications Director, [14]Libertarian Party of Colorado
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
We defend your rights
And oppose the use of force
Taxation is theft
--
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
- [15]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
Communications Director, [16]Libertarian Party of Colorado
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
We defend your rights
And oppose the use of force
Taxation is theft
--
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
- [17]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
Communications Director, [18]Libertarian Party of Colorado
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
We defend your rights
And oppose the use of force
Taxation is theft
--
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
- [19]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
Communications Director, [20]Libertarian Party of Colorado
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
We defend your rights
And oppose the use of force
Taxation is theft
References
1. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
2. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
3. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
4. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
5. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
6. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
7. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
8. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
9. mailto:RealReform at earthlink.net
10. mailto:Harlos at LP.org
11. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
12. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
13. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
14. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
15. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
16. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
17. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
18. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
19. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
20. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
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