[Lnc-business] Judicial committee
Craig Bowden
craig.bowden at lp.org
Thu Jul 5 21:30:37 EDT 2018
I am glad that we are starting to address future concerns, and am fully
supportive of that. However, I must stay firm on addressing what has
already happened and not to rush things through. I am fine waiting for
Ms. Mattson for a few days while she rests if that is what will be
required to get the information on the outcome so I can get that
information to Region 1's chairs to review.
Until Richard Longstreth is back online from his move to Arizona (he
stated it would likely be tomorrow with internet), I will be acting as
Region 1 Representative and will oppose any measure to rush things
through. I am still waiting to hear back from the rest of the Region's
state Chairs, so far four have responded. There are seven more I need to
hear from before something of this level can be worked.
I will support the creation of what we are looking for in committee
members for election discussion. I would recommend that at least one
member be from the most recent Bylaws Committee as an adviser, and since
there is technology being discuss, having someone from the IT committee
as well. There is some overlap from those committees and they should
probably be in the loop.
Aside from that, I agree with Caryn Ann that we should have one member
of the LNC that is a facilitator and adviser, but not a voting member.
Craig Bowden
Region 1 Alternate
On 2018-07-05 19:17, john.phillips--- via Lnc-business wrote:
> THANK YOU. Yes Stuart was who I was talking to as well, but I could not
> find the paper I wrote his name on. He thinks he can have it ready
> for
> phoenix, and someone offered to help fund his trip.
> John Phillips
> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
> Cell [1]217-412-5973
>
> ------ Original message------
> From: Alex Merced (Region 8 Alt) via Lnc-business
> Date: Thu, Jul 5, 2018 8:12 PM
> To: [2]lnc-business at hq.lp.org;
> Cc: Alex Merced (Region 8 Alt);
> Subject:Re: [Lnc-business] Judicial committee
> Stuart Flood from SC said he has a prototype for electronic balloting
> that is co
> mpliant with the bylaws and is willing to present and put together
> prototype for
> the next meeting, is there interest in doing so? Also, LPTX used
> scantron sheet
> s for balloting although come to think of it that approach may not be
> currently
> compliant with national bylaws, I can also reach out to them to discuss
> how they
> do it if interest.
>
> Also, during first LNC meeting I wasn’t sure if we were going to need
> to propose
> committees so in the name of saving time I wrote down Committee
> motions for a n
> ew Blockchain Committee and Electric Ballot Committee based on the
> wording for t
> he outreach committee that many of you helped me with earlier in the
> year.
>
> Caryn Ann, do you have these motions could you send them to me so I can
> start a
> new thread for each one to perfect the wording?
>
> Also, congrats to all of you for your elections and re-elections to the
> LNC. I l
> ook forward to working with everyone! :)
>
> Alex Merced
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jul 5, 2018, at 9:05 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
>>
>> It was presented to the delegates as:
>> a. you say the top five
>> b. you let the LNC do so and they shouldn't be trusted
>> It was the horns of a false dilemma and they were spoon-fed the path
>> to
>> go. To me that is interfering in our own internal elections and
>> inappropriate. If this was the first time, well okay. For me it is
>> the
>> second time and I am hearing that it has been multiple times.
>> It is time for this to not be swept under the rug with a patch.
>> I have not made a choice when I am told I have to pick between two
>> bad
>> choices when there were other options if given some time to hash
>> out.
>> Hell we could have done a run off standing vote between some of
>> them. These were so close that they do not represent at all what
>> our
>> rules intended.
>> It's not right. And I am not going to pretend like it is.
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 6:52 PM, Sam Goldstein via Lnc-business
>> <[1[3]]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>
>> I'm pretty sure Alicia keeps all the paper ballots along with the
>> state tally sheets from each convention. Give her a day or two
>> to rest up!
>> ---
>> Sam Goldstein
>> Libertarian National Committee
>> [4]317-850-0726 Cell
>>
>> On [5]2018-07-05 20:44, Craig Bowden via Lnc-business wrote:
>>
>> I have one delegation in Region 1 right now that is not happy
>> about
>> the At Large situation, and is requesting an audit of the vote.
>> Specifically the state by state break down, as is afforded on all
>> other election results, but no delegation was able to review the
>> results to ensure accuracy. There is further concern that there
>> was
>> no
>> preservation of the original ballots from the delegations.
>> I can tell you this much: had I known what was going on, I would
>> have
>> raised these concerns on the floor. Unfortunately, I had to
>> credential
>> out because I had to get on a flight back to Utah for July 4th as
>> my
>> campaign had multiple outreach events. Many delegates also were
>> candidates that had to leave for similar reasons.
>> We cannot rush through this as if it is an afterthought.
>> Especially
>> if
>> there ended up being a need for the JC to rule on an issue.
>> Craig Bowden
>> Region 1 Alternate
>> On [6]2018-07-05 18:30, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
>>
>> As this is an LNC created committee, I think that committee
>> creation
>> by
>> larger unrelated bodies is a recipe for disaster. As a group
>> we
>> can
>> pick applicants who fill in needed holes and knowledge. I am
>> not
>> thinking 50 person. I am thinking 9, 11, or 13. It is a big
>> issue.
>> I think some LNC members should be ex officio advisory members
>> only.
>> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Elizabeth Van Horn
>> <[1][2[7]]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org> wrote:
>> Caryn Ann, I was thinking state chairs or people they
>> appoint.
>> Which could be some of the people you're thinking might be
>> good.
>> A 50 person committee would be too large (someone from each
>> state
>> affiliate), but Regions could send one or two people. Eight
>> regions
>> and two from each, so maybe 16 people. (Or, could be
>> smaller)
>> They could work on "improving the election scheduling,
>> balloting,
>> and tabulation process", and report sometime in 2019 to see
>> what
>> improvements could be made.
>> ---
>> Elizabeth Van Horn
>> LNC Region 3 (IN, MI, OH, KY)
>> Secretary Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana
>> LP Social Media Process Review Committee
>> Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus
>> [2][3][8]http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>> On [9]2018-07-05 20:12, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
>> wrote:
>> It needs a much larger and more diverse committee that
>> doesn't
>> have
>> the
>> LNC's thumb on it like every other committee. Many many
>> many
>> qualified
>> people offered, including former LNC people who have been
>> to
>> this
>> rodeo.
>> On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 6:06 PM, [10]joe.bishop-henchman---
>> via
>> Lnc-business
>> <[1][3][4[11]]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> Good questions. My answers would be that the only way
>> this
>> works is
>> if everyone feels like they have a seat at the table.
>> Timing
>> wise,
>> this gives them time to collect ideas and feedback while
>> giving
>> us
>> time to address it if they can't come up with a
>> consensus
>> recommendation.
>> It's also more than just technology - it's also whether
>> we
>> do
>> plurality or IRV or approval, it's whether we do
>> combined
>> ballots or
>> all separate, it's whether we need three days or four or
>> five.
>> There's off-the-shelf electronic voting things we can
>> rent
>> -
>> I've
>> done elections with them before - but I think our Party
>> members
>> would without buy-in reject them as centralized and
>> potentially
>> not
>> secure. The solution may just be some new bylaws changes
>> and
>> more
>> tellers and computers, and no new technology. I'm not
>> sure.
>> JBH
>> On [12]2018-07-05 19:56, [13]john.phillips--- via
>> Lnc-business
>> wrote:
>> Why start a new committee? Shouldn't this fall under the
>> purview of
>> IT?
>> John Phillips
>> Libertarian National Committee Region 6
>> Representative
>> Cell [1][14]217-412-5973
>> ------ Original message------
>> From: [2][15]joe.bishop-henchman--- via Lnc-business
>> Date: Thu, Jul 5, 2018 6:32 PM
>> To: [3][2][4][5[16]]lnc-business at hq.lp.org;
>> Cc: [4][3][5][6[17]]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org;
>> Subject:Re: [Lnc-business] Judicial committee
>> I've been thinking about this since the night of the
>> At-Large/JC
>> election and I do share Ms. Harlos's frustration. I had
>> perhaps
>> 100
>> delegates who were going to support me already leave by
>> the
>> time
>> we
>> got
>> to the At-Large election. Complaining about how long
>> balloting and
>> tabulation took is already the #1 feedback topic I'm
>> getting
>> from
>> Party
>> members.
>> That said, I agree with Ms. Van Horn that the Convention
>> did
>> perhaps
>> the
>> least worst option under the circumstances. I worry that
>> anything
>> we
>> do
>> that departs from that, be it putting our own people on or
>> keeping
>> the
>> dead hand of the last JC or sending a mail ballot to all
>> Party
>> members
>> or some rump thereof, is even more disconnected from the
>> rules we
>> should
>> be following and destined to be viewed as illegitimate and
>> post-hoc.
>> I would like to fix it for next time, as I know many of
>> you
>> do.
>> Taking
>> Mr. Goldstein's suggestion, I took a stab at tackling
>> three
>> birds
>> with
>> one stone:
>> WHEREAS, the Libertarian National Convention on July 3,
>> 2018
>> voted
>> that
>> the top vote-getters in the At-Large race fill all
>> available
>> At-Large
>> seats on the LNC; and
>> WHEREAS, Rule 9 directs that the election of Judicial
>> Committee
>> members
>> be conducted as the same manner as specified for at-large
>> members
>> of
>> the
>> National Committee; and
>> WHEREAS, LNC action pursuant to Bylaws Article 7, Section
>> 7
>> would
>> clear
>> all potential doubts as to who the new LNC members are;
>> THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that Joshua Smith, Bill Redpath,
>> and
>> Alicia
>> Mattson are added to the LNC as At-Large members for a
>> two-year
>> term;
>> and
>> BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the LNC acknowledges the
>> election of
>> D.
>> Frank Robinson, Chuck Moulton, Darryl Perry, Ruth Bennett,
>> Geoff
>> Neale,
>> Jim Turney, and Tricia Sprankle to the Judicial Committee
>> for a
>> four-year term; and
>> BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that a special committee be
>> established to
>> present a consensus recommendation to the LNC by September
>> 1, 2019
>> for
>> improving the election scheduling, balloting, and
>> tabulation
>> process
>> of
>> LNC elections, with said committee to consist of:
>> (1) the Party Vice-Chair, who will act as chairperson
>> (2) the Party Secretary
>> (3) a designee of the Bylaws & Rules Committee
>> (4) four Party members appointed by the Party Chair, from
>> among
>> the
>> various caucuses in the Party.
>> JBH
>> On [5][18]2018-07-05 18:04, Sam Goldstein via Lnc-business
>> wrote:
>> Since we apparently closed the convention without a
>> procedure for
>> populating the JC, is anyone in the mood for a motion
>> to
>> appoint
>> the
>> top seven vote winners as the JC for this term? I
>> suppose we
>> can
>> be
>> anarchists and live without a JC this term or solicit
>> applications
>> from
>> people who were not nominated at convention.
>> I don't have the top seven names handy, we would have
>> to
>> verify
>> they
>> have been members for four years.
>> --
>> Sam Goldstein
>> Libertarian National Committee
>> [6][19]317-850-0726 Cell
>> References
>> 1. tel:[20]217-412-5973
>> 2. [4][6][7][21]http://joe.bi/
>> 3. mailto:[5][7][8[22]]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 4. mailto:[6][8][9[23]]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>> 5. tel:[24]2018-07-05 18
>> 6. tel:[25]317-850-0726
>> --
>> --
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>> (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>> Washington)
>> - [7][26]Caryn.Ann.[27] Harlos at LP.org
>> Communications Director, [8]Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> We defend your rights
>> And oppose the use of force
>> Taxation is theft
>> References
>> 1. mailto:[9][10[28]]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 2. mailto:[10][11[29]]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 3. mailto:[11][12[30]]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>> 4. [12][13][31]http://joe.bi/
>> 5. mailto:[13][14[32]]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 6. mailto:[14][15[33]]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>> 7. mailto:[15[34]]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> 8. [16][16][35]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>> --
>> --
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>> (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>> Washington)
>> - [17][36]Caryn.Ann.[37] Harlos at LP.org
>> Communications Director, [18]Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> We defend your rights
>> And oppose the use of force
>> Taxation is theft
>> References
>> 1. mailto:[17[38]]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
>> 2. [18][39]http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>> 3. mailto:[19[40]]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 4. mailto:[20[41]]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 5. mailto:[21[42]]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>> 6. [22][43]http://joe.bi/
>> 7. mailto:[23[44]]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 8. mailto:[24[45]]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>> 9. mailto:[25[46]]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 10. mailto:[26[47]]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 11. mailto:[27[48]]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>> 12. [28][49]http://joe.bi/
>> 13. mailto:[29[50]]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 14. mailto:[30[51]]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>> 15. mailto:[31[52]]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> 16. [32][53]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>> 17. mailto:[33[54]]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> 18. [34][55]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>>
>> --
>> --
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>> Washington)
>> - [35][56]Caryn.Ann.[57] Harlos at LP.org
>> Communications Director, [36]Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> We defend your rights
>> And oppose the use of force
>> Taxation is theft
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto[58]:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 2. mailto[59]:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
>> 3. [60]http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>> 4. mailto[61]:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 5. mailto[62]:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 6. mailto[63]:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>> 7. [64]http://joe.bi/
>> 8. mailto[65]:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 9. mailto[66]:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>> 10. mailto[67]:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 11. mailto[68]:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 12. mailto[69]:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>> 13. [70]http://joe.bi/
>> 14. mailto[71]:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 15. mailto[72]:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>> 16. [73]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>> 17. mailto[74]:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
>> 18. [75]http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>> 19. mailto[76]:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 20. mailto[77]:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 21. mailto[78]:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>> 22. [79]http://joe.bi/
>> 23. mailto[80]:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 24. mailto[81]:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>> 25. mailto[82]:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 26. mailto[83]:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 27. mailto[84]:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>> 28. [85]http://joe.bi/
>> 29. mailto[86]:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 30. mailto[87]:joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
>> 31. mailto[88]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> 32. [89]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>> 33. mailto[90]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> 34. [91]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>> 35. mailto[92]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> 36. [93]http://www.lpcolorado.org/
>
> References
>
> 1. tel:217-412-5973
> 2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 3. mailto:]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 4. tel:317-850-0726
> 5. tel:2018-07-05 20
> 6. tel:2018-07-05 18
> 7. mailto:]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
> 8. http://www.lpcaucus.org/
> 9. tel:2018-07-05 20
> 10. http://joe.bi/
> 11. mailto:]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 12. tel:2018-07-05 19
> 13. http://john.ph/
> 14. tel:217-412-5973
> 15. http://joe.bi/
> 16. mailto:]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 17. mailto:]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
> 18. tel:2018-07-05 18
> 19. tel:317-850-0726
> 20. tel:217-412-5973
> 21. http://joe.bi/
> 22. mailto:]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 23. mailto:]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
> 24. tel:2018-07-05 18
> 25. tel:317-850-0726
> 26. http://Caryn.An/
> 27. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
> 28. mailto:]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 29. mailto:]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 30. mailto:]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
> 31. http://joe.bi/
> 32. mailto:]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 33. mailto:]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
> 34. mailto:]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 35. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
> 36. http://Caryn.An/
> 37. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
> 38. mailto:]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
> 39. http://www.lpcaucus.org/
> 40. mailto:]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 41. mailto:]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 42. mailto:]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
> 43. http://joe.bi/
> 44. mailto:]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 45. mailto:]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
> 46. mailto:]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 47. mailto:]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 48. mailto:]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
> 49. http://joe.bi/
> 50. mailto:]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 51. mailto:]joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
> 52. mailto:]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 53. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
> 54. mailto:]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 55. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
> 56. http://Caryn.An/
> 57. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
> 58. mailto::lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 59. mailto::elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
> 60. http://www.lpcaucus.org/
> 61. mailto::lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 62. mailto::lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 63. mailto::joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
> 64. http://joe.bi/
> 65. mailto::lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 66. mailto::joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
> 67. mailto::lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 68. mailto::lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 69. mailto::joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
> 70. http://joe.bi/
> 71. mailto::lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 72. mailto::joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
> 73. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
> 74. mailto::elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
> 75. http://www.lpcaucus.org/
> 76. mailto::lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 77. mailto::lnc-business at hq.lp.org
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> 79. http://joe.bi/
> 80. mailto::lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 81. mailto::joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
> 82. mailto::lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 83. mailto::lnc-business at hq.lp.org
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> 85. http://joe.bi/
> 86. mailto::lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 87. mailto::joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
> 88. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 89. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
> 90. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 91. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
> 92. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 93. http://www.lpcolorado.org/
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