[Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-12: INDEPENDENT AUDIT OF AT-LARGE VOTE RESULTS

Caryn Ann Harlos caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
Fri Jul 13 13:08:34 EDT 2018


That was a typo on my part that has been fixed (the sponsor issue).
Alternates can never sponsor motions.  I appreciate the eagle eye in
reviewing the tally sheet.

-Caryn Ann

On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 11:00 AM, john.phillips--- via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:

>    Apologies if this went twice.  My email is being dumb again ( or I am
>    LOL)
>       1st.  Please change my vote back to Yes.
>    As my objection is currently being addressed.
>    2nd just a minor paperwork issue.  It appears that we have a rep and
>    alternate from the same region as sponsors on this.  While that might
>    normally be an issue leaving us with omly three, the solution is
>    simple.  I did indicate my willingness to Co- sponsor this when it came
>    up.  I got several emails about doing that in the wrong place, which I
>    thought I had corrected, but given the other issue I had about replies
>    not going to the list  is possible that was missed.
>    Not a huge issue, other than I do not want this to get turned into
>    another huge parliamentary argument.
>    John Phillips
>    Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
>    Cell [1]217-412-5973
>
>    ------ Original message------
>    From: William Redpath via Lnc-business
>    Date: Thu, Jul 12, 2018 10:13 AM
>    To: [2]lnc-business at hq.lp.org;
>    Cc: William Redpath;
>    Subject:Re: [Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-12: INDEPENDENT AUDIT OF
>    AT-LARGE VOTE RESULTS
> I vote No.  Bill Redpath
>
> On [3]2018-07-12 11:09, Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business wrote:
> > I vote no.
> >
> > -----
> >
> > Reasons:
> >
> > 1)  I might have been inclined to vote yes, until I looked at the
> > screenshots of the state tally sheets for At-Large.  Some things
> > struck me as potential problems, and if they could be problems in the
> > At-Large votes, it could potentially be a problem on all the LNC
> > votes. Joe Bishop-Henchman was a delegation chair and signed off on
> > the tally sheet for his delegation.  Joe Buchman was a delegation
> > chair, and signed off on his delegation tally sheet. And so on.  Do I
> > think either of these men did anything wrong?  No, but the possibly
> > exists.  Now, if I extrapolate that possibility to all the
> > delegations, there's potential for plenty of problems, and not just in
> > the At-Large race.  Mr. Harlos was a delegation chair, and his wife
> > was a candidate. Dan Reale was a delegation chair and was a candidate.
> > Drew Layda also was a delegation chair, and was a candidate. There may
> > be more that I missed.  ALL of these *could* be potential problems.
> > ---------------
> > 2) The discussion of tallies, ballots, and votes has prompted a
> > discussion in the Region 3 group.  A person who was a candidate for
> > the Region Alternate spot asked if anyone had the ballots from the
> > region's voting, as he was interested in seeing them.  One state still
> > has theirs, two states indicated they'd disposed of the ballots, but
> > think they did everything correct.  (We know that the rate of error
> > was fairly consistent with other ballots, so I suspect there're
> > probably some errors in the Region 3 ballots and tallies too.) The
> > fourth state in Region 3 hasn't responded to the question.  Region 3
> > had three good candidates from 3 different states vying for the
> > Alternate spots.  I'm fairly positive that the winner was Dustin Nanna
> > who's on this email list, and I don't think anyone is calling that
> > result into question.  But, someone who was an alternate did ask about
> > seeing the ballots and he won't be able to, and that is problematic.
> > As we have no way to verify or audit the Region 3 votes.  I'm thinking
> > other regions are similar, in that they too couldn't do a proper audit
> > now if asked.
> > -------------
> > 3 )  I'd probably vote for an audit that included ALL the LNC and the
> > Judicial Committee races.  (Taking into consideration that the Regions
> > are probably ill-equipped to do so)  As why should some leadership
> > races be given more focus and prominence than others?  This seems to
> > be a trend, in that the regional votes were done in a haphazard
> > manner. Yet this body has spent considerable time focused on other
> > races. Region 3 did it's voting in a hallway, and we were given one
> > hour to assemble all the delegates, do a role-call of sorts, which
> > wasn't ideal. Acoustics not good and delegates couldn't hear the
> > candidates, it was hot, and other people milling around, getting
> > mixed-up with Region 3 people. Having our own room/space would've been
> > preferable. (Hopefully, for 2020, regions can be given more
> > consideration. This is LP business, and we shouldn't be shunted into
> > halls and given short-shrift.)
> > -----------
> > 4)   If the reason for doing an audit is principals, then there needs
> > to be an audit of *all* the LP LNC races, including Chair, Vice-Chair,
> > Secretary, and Treasurer, At-Large, and all the Regions too. Along
> > with the Judicial Committee. (Which I now see the JC has it's own
> > motion) I'd like to see ALL the races and candidates given the same
> > consideration.  On the LNC a Region Rep has one vote, the same as an
> > At-Large or an Officer.  Yet, there seems to be an undue level of
> > importance placed on some candidates/races over others. For the sake
> > of principals, I'd like to see more equity in treatment. I see no
> > valid reason why the At-Large race is more likely to be error-prone
> > than any of the races. If we want to be principled about the results,
> > we do an audit of all the races.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Elizabeth Van Horn
> > LNC Region 3 (IN, MI, OH, KY)
> > Secretary Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana
> > Chair-LP Social Media Process Review Committee
> > Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus
> > [4]http://www.lpcaucus.org/
> >
> >
> >
> > On [5]2018-07-12 02:53, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
> >> We have an electronic mail ballot. Votes are due to the LNC-Business
> >>    list by July 19, 2018 at 11:59:59pm Pacific time. Co-Sponsors:
> >> Bowden,
> >>    Harlos, Longstreth, Mattson
> >>    Motion: Move that the LNC would have an audit of the At Large
> >> ballots
> >>    done by two independent auditors appointed by the Chair, ie someone
> >> not
> >>    in the race.  You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of
> >>    votes here: [1][6]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> >>    --
> >>    --
> >>    In Liberty,
> >>    Caryn Ann Harlos
> >>    Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
> >>    - [2][7]Caryn.Ann.[8] Harlos at LP.org or[9] Secretary at LP.org.
> >>    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[10] LPedia at LP.org
> >>    A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> >>    We defend your rights
> >>    And oppose the use of force
> >>    Taxation is theft
> >>
> >> References
> >>
> >>    1. [11]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
> >>    2. mailto[12]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>
> References
>
>    1. tel:217-412-5973
>    2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>    3. tel:2018-07-12 11
>    4. http://www.lpcaucus.org/
>    5. tel:2018-07-12 02
>    6. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>    7. http://Caryn.An/
>    8. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
>    9. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
>   10. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
>   11. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>   12. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>



-- 
-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
*We defend your rights*
*And oppose the use of force*
*Taxation is theft*
-------------- next part --------------
   That was a typo on my part that has been fixed (the sponsor issue).
   Alternates can never sponsor motions.  I appreciate the eagle eye in
   reviewing the tally sheet.
   -Caryn Ann

   On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 11:00 AM, john.phillips--- via Lnc-business
   <[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:

        Apologies if this went twice.  My email is being dumb again ( or
     I am
        LOL)
           1st.  Please change my vote back to Yes.
        As my objection is currently being addressed.
        2nd just a minor paperwork issue.  It appears that we have a rep
     and
        alternate from the same region as sponsors on this.  While that
     might
        normally be an issue leaving us with omly three, the solution is
        simple.  I did indicate my willingness to Co- sponsor this when
     it came
        up.  I got several emails about doing that in the wrong place,
     which I
        thought I had corrected, but given the other issue I had about
     replies
        not going to the list  is possible that was missed.
        Not a huge issue, other than I do not want this to get turned
     into
        another huge parliamentary argument.
        John Phillips
        Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
        Cell [1]217-412-5973
        ------ Original message------
        From: William Redpath via Lnc-business
        Date: Thu, Jul 12, 2018 10:13 AM
        To: [2][2]lnc-business at hq.lp.org;
        Cc: William Redpath;
        Subject:Re: [Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-12: INDEPENDENT
     AUDIT OF
        AT-LARGE VOTE RESULTS
     I vote No.  Bill Redpath

   On [3]2018-07-12 11:09, Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business wrote:
   > I vote no.
   >
   > -----
   >
   > Reasons:
   >
   > 1)  I might have been inclined to vote yes, until I looked at the
   > screenshots of the state tally sheets for At-Large.  Some things
   > struck me as potential problems, and if they could be problems in the
   > At-Large votes, it could potentially be a problem on all the LNC
   > votes. Joe Bishop-Henchman was a delegation chair and signed off on
   > the tally sheet for his delegation.  Joe Buchman was a delegation
   > chair, and signed off on his delegation tally sheet. And so on.  Do I
   > think either of these men did anything wrong?  No, but the possibly
   > exists.  Now, if I extrapolate that possibility to all the
   > delegations, there's potential for plenty of problems, and not just
   in
   > the At-Large race.  Mr. Harlos was a delegation chair, and his wife
   > was a candidate. Dan Reale was a delegation chair and was a
   candidate.
   > Drew Layda also was a delegation chair, and was a candidate. There
   may
   > be more that I missed.  ALL of these *could* be potential problems.
   > ---------------
   > 2) The discussion of tallies, ballots, and votes has prompted a
   > discussion in the Region 3 group.  A person who was a candidate for
   > the Region Alternate spot asked if anyone had the ballots from the
   > region's voting, as he was interested in seeing them.  One state
   still
   > has theirs, two states indicated they'd disposed of the ballots, but
   > think they did everything correct.  (We know that the rate of error
   > was fairly consistent with other ballots, so I suspect there're
   > probably some errors in the Region 3 ballots and tallies too.) The
   > fourth state in Region 3 hasn't responded to the question.  Region 3
   > had three good candidates from 3 different states vying for the
   > Alternate spots.  I'm fairly positive that the winner was Dustin
   Nanna
   > who's on this email list, and I don't think anyone is calling that
   > result into question.  But, someone who was an alternate did ask
   about
   > seeing the ballots and he won't be able to, and that is problematic.
   > As we have no way to verify or audit the Region 3 votes.  I'm
   thinking
   > other regions are similar, in that they too couldn't do a proper
   audit
   > now if asked.
   > -------------
   > 3 )  I'd probably vote for an audit that included ALL the LNC and the
   > Judicial Committee races.  (Taking into consideration that the
   Regions
   > are probably ill-equipped to do so)  As why should some leadership
   > races be given more focus and prominence than others?  This seems to
   > be a trend, in that the regional votes were done in a haphazard
   > manner. Yet this body has spent considerable time focused on other
   > races. Region 3 did it's voting in a hallway, and we were given one
   > hour to assemble all the delegates, do a role-call of sorts, which
   > wasn't ideal. Acoustics not good and delegates couldn't hear the
   > candidates, it was hot, and other people milling around, getting
   > mixed-up with Region 3 people. Having our own room/space would've
   been
   > preferable. (Hopefully, for 2020, regions can be given more
   > consideration. This is LP business, and we shouldn't be shunted into
   > halls and given short-shrift.)
   > -----------
   > 4)   If the reason for doing an audit is principals, then there needs
   > to be an audit of *all* the LP LNC races, including Chair,
   Vice-Chair,
   > Secretary, and Treasurer, At-Large, and all the Regions too. Along
   > with the Judicial Committee. (Which I now see the JC has it's own
   > motion) I'd like to see ALL the races and candidates given the same
   > consideration.  On the LNC a Region Rep has one vote, the same as an
   > At-Large or an Officer.  Yet, there seems to be an undue level of
   > importance placed on some candidates/races over others. For the sake
   > of principals, I'd like to see more equity in treatment. I see no
   > valid reason why the At-Large race is more likely to be error-prone
   > than any of the races. If we want to be principled about the results,
   > we do an audit of all the races.
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > ---
   > Elizabeth Van Horn
   > LNC Region 3 (IN, MI, OH, KY)
   > Secretary Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana
   > Chair-LP Social Media Process Review Committee
   > Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus

     > [4][3]http://www.lpcaucus.org/
     >
     >
     >
     > On [5]2018-07-12 02:53, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
     >> We have an electronic mail ballot. Votes are due to the
     LNC-Business
     >>    list by July 19, 2018 at 11:59:59pm Pacific time. Co-Sponsors:
     >> Bowden,
     >>    Harlos, Longstreth, Mattson
     >>    Motion: Move that the LNC would have an audit of the At Large
     >> ballots
     >>    done by two independent auditors appointed by the Chair, ie
     someone
     >> not
     >>    in the race.  You can keep track of the Secretary's manual
     tally of
     >>    votes here: [1][6][4]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
     >>    --
     >>    --
     >>    In Liberty,
     >>    Caryn Ann Harlos
     >>    Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
     >>    - [2][7]Caryn.Ann.[8] Harlos at LP.org or[9] Secretary at LP.org.
     >>    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[10]
     LPedia at LP.org
     >>    A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
     >>    We defend your rights
     >>    And oppose the use of force
     >>    Taxation is theft
     >>
     >> References
     >>
     >>    1. [11][5]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
     >>    2. mailto[12]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
     References
        1. tel:217-412-5973
        2. mailto:[6]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
        3. tel:2018-07-12 11
        4. [7]http://www.lpcaucus.org/
        5. tel:2018-07-12 02
        6. [8]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
        7. [9]http://Caryn.An/
        8. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
        9. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
       10. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
       11. [10]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
       12. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org

   --
   --
   In Liberty,
   Caryn Ann Harlos
   Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
   - [11]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
   Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
   A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
   We defend your rights
   And oppose the use of force
   Taxation is theft

References

   1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   3. http://www.lpcaucus.org/
   4. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
   5. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
   6. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   7. http://www.lpcaucus.org/
   8. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
   9. http://Caryn.An/
  10. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
  11. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org


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