[Lnc-business] Agenda in Phoenix

john.phillips at lp.org john.phillips at lp.org
Fri Jul 20 13:26:36 EDT 2018


Shrug.  If I wanted to take it to a court of law I would have a 50/50 shot imho, and that of the 8 lawyers I asked to look at it.  Some of them thought they could win maybe 70%.  
So i would say the argument for them being the JC is as good as the argument against.

However, the vast majority seem to want them from what I see, so I fail to see the issue that people keep making of this. Just accept it and move on, it is what we should have done from the beginning.

On a personal note. Are we not Libertarians?  I find the arguments of rules and legality disturbingly dogmatic.  We argue all the time about changing bad laws and rules that have created a problem, but when it comes down to our rules failing we can't adjust? Seems sort of hypocritical to me, actually far more than sort of.  
So my stance is this.  I stand opposed to anything that continues to drag this out.  I stand opposed to anything other than accepting the recommendation of the previous JC and what appears to me to be the will of vast majority of our constituents.  The correct route in my not so humble opinion is that we accept them, get the hell out of the way, move on, and hope we don't need them like the last LNC didn't.


John Phillips
Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
Cell 217-412-5973
------ Original message------From: Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-businessDate: Fri, Jul 20, 2018 11:32 AMTo: Caryn Ann Harlos;Cc: Elizabeth Van Horn;lnc-business at hq.lp.org;Subject:Re: [Lnc-business] Agenda in Phoenix
They can disagree all they want.   But, there's no authority for them. 

---
Elizabeth Van Horn

On 2018-07-20 11:08, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:

> There's a JC presently electing its chair that disagrees. 
> 
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 8:24 AM Elizabeth Van Horn  wrote: 
> 
>> There's no JC, so no resolution can be made.
>> 
>> ---
>> Elizabeth Van Horn
>> 
>> On 2018-07-20 08:58, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
>>> It seems that the JC took it upon itself to resolve - it is up to the
>>> membership to complain about that if they wish.  I submit we simply 
>>> go
>>> on about our jobs and stay out of it.
>>> -Caryn Ann
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 6:22 AM, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business
>>> <[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I am assuming that JC will be an agenda item in Phoenix. If 
>>> not,
>>> could
>>> we please add it? If not, are we done with that discussion and
>>> simply
>>> not having a JC or what are the next points of discussion? I 
>>> want
>>> to
>>> fully resolve this issue the best we can and move forward. I
>>> abstained
>>> last vote to approve but my mind is still not settled.
>>> There is no good solution here, but one of may state chairs put
>>> very
>>> simply:
>>> "I find this whole debacle with process to be detrimental and
>>> don't
>>> really care one way or the other how it pans out. Nobody is 
>>> going
>>> to be
>>> 100% on this as is evidenced by the gridlock on some of the 
>>> first
>>> true
>>> membership affecting votes from the LNC."
>>> We need to resolve and move forward.
>>> Richard
>>> --
>>> Richard Longstreth
>>> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, KS, MT, NM, OR, HI, UT, 
>>> WA,
>>> WY)
>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>> [1][2]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>> 931.538.9300
>>> References
>>> 1. mailto:[3]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>> 
>>> --
>>> --
>>> In Liberty,
>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>>> - [4]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>> We defend your rights
>>> And oppose the use of force
>>> Taxation is theft
>>> 
>>> References
>>> 
>>> 1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> 2. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>> 3. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>> 4. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> -- 
> 
> -- 
> 
> IN LIBERTY, 
> CARYN ANN HARLOS 
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org. 
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org 
> 
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles: 
> _We defend your rights_ 
> _And oppose the use of force_ 
> _Taxation is theft_
   They can disagree all they want.   But, there's no authority for them.

   ---
   Elizabeth Van Horn

   On 2018-07-20 11:08, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:

   There's a JC presently electing its chair that disagrees.
   On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 8:24 AM Elizabeth Van Horn
   <[1]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org> wrote:

     There's no JC, so no resolution can be made.
     ---
     Elizabeth Van Horn
     On 2018-07-20 08:58, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
     > It seems that the JC took it upon itself to resolve - it is up to
     the
     >    membership to complain about that if they wish.  I submit we
     simply
     > go
     >    on about our jobs and stay out of it.
     >    -Caryn Ann
     >
     >    On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 6:22 AM, Richard Longstreth via
     Lnc-business
     >    <[1][2]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
     >
     >         I am assuming that JC will be an agenda item in Phoenix.
     If
     > not,
     >      could
     >         we please add it? If not, are we done with that discussion
     and
     >      simply
     >         not having a JC or what are the next points of discussion?
     I
     > want
     >      to
     >         fully resolve this issue the best we can and move forward.
     I
     >      abstained
     >         last vote to approve but my mind is still not settled.
     >         There is no good solution here, but one of may state
     chairs put
     >      very
     >         simply:
     >         "I find this whole debacle with process to be detrimental
     and
     >      don't
     >         really care one way or the other how it pans out. Nobody
     is
     > going
     >      to be
     >         100% on this as is evidenced by the gridlock on some of
     the
     > first
     >      true
     >         membership affecting votes from the LNC."
     >         We need to resolve and move forward.
     >         Richard
     >         --
     >         Richard Longstreth
     >         Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, KS, MT, NM, OR, HI,
     UT,
     > WA,
     >      WY)
     >         Libertarian National Committee
     >         [1][2][3]richard.longstreth at lp.org
     >         931.538.9300
     >      References
     >         1. mailto:[3][4]richard.longstreth at lp.org
     >
     >    --
     >    --
     >    In Liberty,
     >    Caryn Ann Harlos
     >    Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
     >    - [4]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
     >    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
     >    A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
     >    We defend your rights
     >    And oppose the use of force
     >    Taxation is theft
     >
     > References
     >
     >    1. mailto:[5]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
     >    2. mailto:[6]richard.longstreth at lp.org
     >    3. mailto:[7]richard.longstreth at lp.org
     >    4. mailto:[8]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org

     --

   --
   In Liberty,
   Caryn Ann Harlos
   Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
   - [9]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
   Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org

   A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
   We defend your rights
   And oppose the use of force
   Taxation is theft

References

   1. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
   2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   3. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
   4. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
   5. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   6. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
   7. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
   8. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
   9. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
-------------- next part --------------
   Shrug.  If I wanted to take it to a court of law I would have a 50/50
   shot imho, and that of the 8 lawyers I asked to look at it.  Some of
   them thought they could win maybe 70%.

   So i would say the argument for them being the JC is as good as the
   argument against.
   However, the vast majority seem to want them from what I see, so I fail
   to see the issue that people keep making of this. Just accept it and
   move on, it is what we should have done from the beginning.
   On a personal note. Are we not Libertarians?  I find the arguments of
   rules and legality disturbingly dogmatic.  We argue all the time about
   changing bad laws and rules that have created a problem, but when it
   comes down to our rules failing we can't adjust? Seems sort of
   hypocritical to me, actually far more than sort of.
   So my stance is this.  I stand opposed to anything that continues to
   drag this out.  I stand opposed to anything other than accepting the
   recommendation of the previous JC and what appears to me to be the will
   of vast majority of our constituents.  The correct route in my not so
   humble opinion is that we accept them, get the hell out of the way,
   move on, and hope we don't need them like the last LNC didn't.
   John Phillips
   Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
   Cell [1]217-412-5973

   ------ Original message------
   From: Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business
   Date: Fri, Jul 20, 2018 11:32 AM
   To: Caryn Ann Harlos;
   Cc: Elizabeth Van Horn[2];lnc-business at hq.lp.org;
   Subject:Re: [Lnc-business] Agenda in Phoenix
They can disagree all they want.   But, there's no authority for them.

---
Elizabeth Van Horn

On [3]2018-07-20 11:08, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:

> There's a JC presently electing its chair that disagrees.
>
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 8:24 AM Elizabeth Van Horn  wrote:
>
>> There's no JC, so no resolution can be made.
>>
>> ---
>> Elizabeth Van Horn
>>
>> On [4]2018-07-20 08:58, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
>>> It seems that the JC took it upon itself to resolve - it is up to the
>>> membership to complain about that if they wish.  I submit we simply
>>> go
>>> on about our jobs and stay out of it.
>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 6:22 AM, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business
>>> <[1[5]]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am assuming that JC will be an agenda item in Phoenix. If
>>> not,
>>> could
>>> we please add it? If not, are we done with that discussion and
>>> simply
>>> not having a JC or what are the next points of discussion? I
>>> want
>>> to
>>> fully resolve this issue the best we can and move forward. I
>>> abstained
>>> last vote to approve but my mind is still not settled.
>>> There is no good solution here, but one of may state chairs put
>>> very
>>> simply:
>>> "I find this whole debacle with process to be detrimental and
>>> don't
>>> really care one way or the other how it pans out. Nobody is
>>> going
>>> to be
>>> 100% on this as is evidenced by the gridlock on some of the
>>> first
>>> true
>>> membership affecting votes from the LNC."
>>> We need to resolve and move forward.
>>> Richard
>>> --
>>> Richard Longstreth
>>> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, KS, MT, NM, OR, HI, UT,
>>> WA,
>>> WY)
>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>> [1][2[6]]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>> [7]931.538.9300
>>> References
>>> 1. mailto:[3[8]]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> In Liberty,
>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>>> - [4][9]Caryn.Ann.[10] Harlos at LP.org or[11] Secretary at LP.org.
>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[12] LPedia at LP.org
>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>> We defend your rights
>>> And oppose the use of force
>>> Taxation is theft
>>>
>>> References
>>>
>>> 1. mailto[13]:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> 2. mailto[14]:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>> 3. mailto[15]:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>> 4. mailto[16]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> --
>
> --
>
> IN LIBERTY,
> CARYN ANN HARLOS
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary - [17]Caryn.Ann
.[18] Harlos at LP.org or[19] Secretary at LP.org.
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[20] LPedia at LP.org
>
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> _We defend your rights_
> _And oppose the use of force_
> _Taxation is theft_
   They can disagree all they want.   But, there's no authority for them.

   ---
   Elizabeth Van Horn

   On [21]2018-07-20 11:08, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:

   There's a JC presently electing its chair that disagrees.
   On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 8:24 AM Elizabeth Van Horn
   <[1[22]]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org> wrote:

     There's no JC, so no resolution can be made.
     ---
     Elizabeth Van Horn
     On [23]2018-07-20 08:58, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
     > It seems that the JC took it upon itself to resolve - it is up to
     the
     >    membership to complain about that if they wish.  I submit we
     simply
     > go
     >    on about our jobs and stay out of it.
     >    -Caryn Ann
     >
     >    On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 6:22 AM, Richard Longstreth via
     Lnc-business
     >    <[1][2[24]]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
     >
     >         I am assuming that JC will be an agenda item in Phoenix.
     If
     > not,
     >      could
     >         we please add it? If not, are we done with that discussion
     and
     >      simply
     >         not having a JC or what are the next points of discussion?
     I
     > want
     >      to
     >         fully resolve this issue the best we can and move forward.
     I
     >      abstained
     >         last vote to approve but my mind is still not settled.
     >         There is no good solution here, but one of may state
     chairs put
     >      very
     >         simply:
     >         "I find this whole debacle with process to be detrimental
     and
     >      don't
     >         really care one way or the other how it pans out. Nobody
     is
     > going
     >      to be
     >         100% on this as is evidenced by the gridlock on some of
     the
     > first
     >      true
     >         membership affecting votes from the LNC."
     >         We need to resolve and move forward.
     >         Richard
     >         --
     >         Richard Longstreth
     >         Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, KS, MT, NM, OR, HI,
     UT,
     > WA,
     >      WY)
     >         Libertarian National Committee
     >         [1][2][3[25]]richard.longstreth at lp.org
     >         [26]931.538.9300
     >      References
     >         1. mailto:[3][4[27]]richard.longstreth at lp.org
     >
     >    --
     >    --
     >    In Liberty,
     >    Caryn Ann Harlos
     >    Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
     >    - [4][28]Caryn.Ann.[29] Harlos at LP.org or[30] Secretary at LP.org.
     >    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[31] LPedia at LP.org
     >    A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
     >    We defend your rights
     >    And oppose the use of force
     >    Taxation is theft
     >
     > References
     >
     >    1. mailto:[5[32]]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
     >    2. mailto:[6[33]]richard.longstreth at lp.org
     >    3. mailto:[7[34]]richard.longstreth at lp.org
     >    4. mailto:[8[35]]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org

     --

   --
   In Liberty,
   Caryn Ann Harlos
   Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
   - [9][36]Caryn.Ann.[37] Harlos at LP.org or[38] Secretary at LP.org.
   Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[39] LPedia at LP.org

   A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
   We defend your rights
   And oppose the use of force
   Taxation is theft

References

   1. mailto[40]:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
   2. mailto[41]:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   3. mailto[42]:richard.longstreth at lp.org
   4. mailto[43]:richard.longstreth at lp.org
   5. mailto[44]:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   6. mailto[45]:richard.longstreth at lp.org
   7. mailto[46]:richard.longstreth at lp.org
   8. mailto[47]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
   9. mailto[48]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org

References

   1. tel:217-412-5973
   2. mailto:;lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   3. tel:2018-07-20 11
   4. tel:2018-07-20 08
   5. mailto:]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   6. mailto:]richard.longstreth at lp.org
   7. tel:931.538.9300
   8. mailto:]richard.longstreth at lp.org
   9. http://Caryn.An/
  10. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
  11. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
  12. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
  13. mailto::lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  14. mailto::richard.longstreth at lp.org
  15. mailto::richard.longstreth at lp.org
  16. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
  17. http://Caryn.An/
  18. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
  19. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
  20. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
  21. tel:2018-07-20 11
  22. mailto:]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
  23. tel:2018-07-20 08
  24. mailto:]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  25. mailto:]richard.longstreth at lp.org
  26. tel:931.538.9300
  27. mailto:]richard.longstreth at lp.org
  28. http://Caryn.An/
  29. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
  30. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
  31. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
  32. mailto:]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  33. mailto:]richard.longstreth at lp.org
  34. mailto:]richard.longstreth at lp.org
  35. mailto:]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
  36. http://Caryn.An/
  37. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
  38. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
  39. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
  40. mailto::elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
  41. mailto::lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  42. mailto::richard.longstreth at lp.org
  43. mailto::richard.longstreth at lp.org
  44. mailto::lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  45. mailto::richard.longstreth at lp.org
  46. mailto::richard.longstreth at lp.org
  47. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
  48. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org


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