[Lnc-business] Agenda in Phoenix
Elizabeth Van Horn
elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
Fri Jul 20 14:46:52 EDT 2018
I was in favor of the LNC approving the top seven JC candidates. But,
my region isn't, and leadership has let me know that they think there's
no JC.
I'm not sure what you're going on about. I'm not arguing. Nor, am I
doing anything, other than stating what my region thinks.
You do your region, and I'll do mine.
---
Elizabeth Van Horn
LNC Region 3 (IN, MI, OH, KY)
Secretary Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana
LP Social Media Process Review Committee
Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus
http://www.lpcaucus.org/
On 2018-07-20 13:26, john.phillips at lp.org wrote:
> Shrug. If I wanted to take it to a court of law I would have a 50/50 shot imho, and that of the 8 lawyers I asked to look at it. Some of them thought they could win maybe 70%.
>
> So i would say the argument for them being the JC is as good as the argument against.
>
> However, the vast majority seem to want them from what I see, so I fail to see the issue that people keep making of this. Just accept it and move on, it is what we should have done from the beginning.
>
> On a personal note. Are we not Libertarians? I find the arguments of rules and legality disturbingly dogmatic. We argue all the time about changing bad laws and rules that have created a problem, but when it comes down to our rules failing we can't adjust? Seems sort of hypocritical to me, actually far more than sort of.
>
> So my stance is this. I stand opposed to anything that continues to drag this out. I stand opposed to anything other than accepting the recommendation of the previous JC and what appears to me to be the will of vast majority of our constituents. The correct route in my not so humble opinion is that we accept them, get the hell out of the way, move on, and hope we don't need them like the last LNC didn't.
>
> John Phillips
>
> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
>
> Cell 217-412-5973 [5]
>
> ------ Original message------
> FROM: Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business
> DATE: Fri, Jul 20, 2018 11:32 AM
> TO: Caryn Ann Harlos;
> CC: Elizabeth Van Horn;lnc-business at hq.lp.org;
> SUBJECT:Re: [Lnc-business] Agenda in Phoenix
>
> They can disagree all they want. But, there's no authority for them.
>
> ---
> Elizabeth Van Horn
>
> On 2018-07-20 11 [1]:08, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>
>> There's a JC presently electing its chair that disagrees.
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 8:24 AM Elizabeth Van Horn wrote:
>>
>>> There's no JC, so no resolution can be made.
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Elizabeth Van Horn
>>>
>>> On 2018-07-20 08 [2]:58, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
>>>> It seems that the JC took it upon itself to resolve - it is up to the
>>>> membership to complain about that if they wish. I submit we simply
>>>> go
>>>> on about our jobs and stay out of it.
>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 6:22 AM, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business
>>>> <[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am assuming that JC will be an agenda item in Phoenix. If
>>>> not,
>>>> could
>>>> we please add it? If not, are we done with that discussion and
>>>> simply
>>>> not having a JC or what are the next points of discussion? I
>>>> want
>>>> to
>>>> fully resolve this issue the best we can and move forward. I
>>>> abstained
>>>> last vote to approve but my mind is still not settled.
>>>> There is no good solution here, but one of may state chairs put
>>>> very
>>>> simply:
>>>> "I find this whole debacle with process to be detrimental and
>>>> don't
>>>> really care one way or the other how it pans out. Nobody is
>>>> going
>>>> to be
>>>> 100% on this as is evidenced by the gridlock on some of the
>>>> first
>>>> true
>>>> membership affecting votes from the LNC."
>>>> We need to resolve and move forward.
>>>> Richard
>>>> --
>>>> Richard Longstreth
>>>> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, KS, MT, NM, OR, HI, UT,
>>>> WA,
>>>> WY)
>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>> [1][2]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>>> 931.538.9300 [3]
>>>> References
>>>> 1. mailto:[3]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> --
>>>> In Liberty,
>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>>>> - [4]Caryn.An [4]n. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>> We defend your rights
>>>> And oppose the use of force
>>>> Taxation is theft
>>>>
>>>> References
>>>>
>>>> 1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> 2. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>>> 3. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>>> 4. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> --
>>
>> --
>>
>> IN LIBERTY,
>> CARYN ANN HARLOS
>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary - Caryn.An [4]n. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>>
>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> _We defend your rights_
>> _And oppose the use of force_
>> _Taxation is theft_
> They can disagree all they want. But, there's no authority for them.
>
> ---
> Elizabeth Van Horn
>
> On 2018-07-20 11 [1]:08, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>
> There's a JC presently electing its chair that disagrees.
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 8:24 AM Elizabeth Van Horn
> <[1]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org> wrote:
>
> There's no JC, so no resolution can be made.
> ---
> Elizabeth Van Horn
> On 2018-07-20 08 [2]:58, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
>> It seems that the JC took it upon itself to resolve - it is up to
> the
>> membership to complain about that if they wish. I submit we
> simply
>> go
>> on about our jobs and stay out of it.
>> -Caryn Ann
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 6:22 AM, Richard Longstreth via
> Lnc-business
>> <[1][2]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>
>> I am assuming that JC will be an agenda item in Phoenix.
> If
>> not,
>> could
>> we please add it? If not, are we done with that discussion
> and
>> simply
>> not having a JC or what are the next points of discussion?
> I
>> want
>> to
>> fully resolve this issue the best we can and move forward.
> I
>> abstained
>> last vote to approve but my mind is still not settled.
>> There is no good solution here, but one of may state
> chairs put
>> very
>> simply:
>> "I find this whole debacle with process to be detrimental
> and
>> don't
>> really care one way or the other how it pans out. Nobody
> is
>> going
>> to be
>> 100% on this as is evidenced by the gridlock on some of
> the
>> first
>> true
>> membership affecting votes from the LNC."
>> We need to resolve and move forward.
>> Richard
>> --
>> Richard Longstreth
>> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, KS, MT, NM, OR, HI,
> UT,
>> WA,
>> WY)
>> Libertarian National Committee
>> [1][2][3]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 931.538.9300 [3]
>> References
>> 1. mailto:[3][4]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>
>> --
>> --
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>> - [4]Caryn.An [4]n. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> We defend your rights
>> And oppose the use of force
>> Taxation is theft
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:[5]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 2. mailto:[6]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 3. mailto:[7]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 4. mailto:[8]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>
> --
>
> --
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
> - [9]Caryn.An [4]n. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> We defend your rights
> And oppose the use of force
> Taxation is theft
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
> 2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 3. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 4. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 5. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 6. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 7. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 8. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 9. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
Links:
------
[1] tel:2018-07-2011
[2] tel:2018-07-2008
[3] tel:931.538.9300
[4] http://Caryn.An
[5] tel:217-412-5973
-------------- next part --------------
I was in favor of the LNC approving the top seven JC candidates. But,
my region isn't, and leadership has let me know that they think there's
no JC.
I'm not sure what you're going on about. I'm not arguing. Nor, am I
doing anything, other than stating what my region thinks.
You do your region, and I'll do mine.
---
Elizabeth Van Horn
LNC Region 3 (IN, MI, OH, KY)
Secretary Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana
LP Social Media Process Review Committee
Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus
[1]http://www.lpcaucus.org/
On 2018-07-20 13:26, john.phillips at lp.org wrote:
Shrug. If I wanted to take it to a court of law I would have a 50/50
shot imho, and that of the 8 lawyers I asked to look at it. Some of
them thought they could win maybe 70%.
So i would say the argument for them being the JC is as good as the
argument against.
However, the vast majority seem to want them from what I see, so I fail
to see the issue that people keep making of this. Just accept it and
move on, it is what we should have done from the beginning.
On a personal note. Are we not Libertarians? I find the arguments of
rules and legality disturbingly dogmatic. We argue all the time about
changing bad laws and rules that have created a problem, but when it
comes down to our rules failing we can't adjust? Seems sort of
hypocritical to me, actually far more than sort of.
So my stance is this. I stand opposed to anything that continues to
drag this out. I stand opposed to anything other than accepting the
recommendation of the previous JC and what appears to me to be the will
of vast majority of our constituents. The correct route in my not so
humble opinion is that we accept them, get the hell out of the way,
move on, and hope we don't need them like the last LNC didn't.
John Phillips
Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
Cell [2]217-412-5973
------ Original message------
From: Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business
Date: Fri, Jul 20, 2018 11:32 AM
To: Caryn Ann Harlos;
Cc: Elizabeth Van Horn[3];lnc-business at hq.lp.org;
Subject:Re: [Lnc-business] Agenda in Phoenix
They can disagree all they want. But, there's no authority for them.
---
Elizabeth Van Horn
On [4]2018-07-20 11:08, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
> There's a JC presently electing its chair that disagrees.
>
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 8:24 AM Elizabeth Van Horn wrote:
>
>> There's no JC, so no resolution can be made.
>>
>> ---
>> Elizabeth Van Horn
>>
>> On [5]2018-07-20 08:58, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
>>> It seems that the JC took it upon itself to resolve - it is up to the
>>> membership to complain about that if they wish. I submit we simply
>>> go
>>> on about our jobs and stay out of it.
>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 6:22 AM, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business
>>> <[1[6]]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> I am assuming that JC will be an agenda item in Phoenix. If
>>> not,
>>> could
>>> we please add it? If not, are we done with that discussion and
>>> simply
>>> not having a JC or what are the next points of discussion? I
>>> want
>>> to
>>> fully resolve this issue the best we can and move forward. I
>>> abstained
>>> last vote to approve but my mind is still not settled.
>>> There is no good solution here, but one of may state chairs put
>>> very
>>> simply:
>>> "I find this whole debacle with process to be detrimental and
>>> don't
>>> really care one way or the other how it pans out. Nobody is
>>> going
>>> to be
>>> 100% on this as is evidenced by the gridlock on some of the
>>> first
>>> true
>>> membership affecting votes from the LNC."
>>> We need to resolve and move forward.
>>> Richard
>>> --
>>> Richard Longstreth
>>> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, KS, MT, NM, OR, HI, UT,
>>> WA,
>>> WY)
>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>> [1][2[7]]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>> [8]931.538.9300
>>> References
>>> 1. mailto:[3[9]]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> In Liberty,
>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>>> - [4][10]Caryn.Ann.[11] Harlos at LP.org or[12] Secretary at LP.org.
>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[13] LPedia at LP.org
>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>> We defend your rights
>>> And oppose the use of force
>>> Taxation is theft
>>>
>>> References
>>>
>>> 1. mailto[14]:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> 2. mailto[15]:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>> 3. mailto[16]:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>> 4. mailto[17]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> --
>
> --
>
> IN LIBERTY,
> CARYN ANN HARLOS
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary - [18]Caryn.Ann
.[19] Harlos at LP.org or[20] Secretary at LP.org.
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[21] LPedia at LP.org
>
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> _We defend your rights_
> _And oppose the use of force_
> _Taxation is theft_
They can disagree all they want. But, there's no authority for them.
---
Elizabeth Van Horn
On [22]2018-07-20 11:08, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
There's a JC presently electing its chair that disagrees.
On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 8:24 AM Elizabeth Van Horn
<[1[23]]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org> wrote:
There's no JC, so no resolution can be made.
---
Elizabeth Van Horn
On [24]2018-07-20 08:58, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
> It seems that the JC took it upon itself to resolve - it is up to
the
> membership to complain about that if they wish. I submit we
simply
> go
> on about our jobs and stay out of it.
> -Caryn Ann
>
> On Fri, Jul 20, 2018 at 6:22 AM, Richard Longstreth via
Lnc-business
> <[1][2[25]]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
> I am assuming that JC will be an agenda item in Phoenix.
If
> not,
> could
> we please add it? If not, are we done with that discussion
and
> simply
> not having a JC or what are the next points of discussion?
I
> want
> to
> fully resolve this issue the best we can and move forward.
I
> abstained
> last vote to approve but my mind is still not settled.
> There is no good solution here, but one of may state
chairs put
> very
> simply:
> "I find this whole debacle with process to be detrimental
and
> don't
> really care one way or the other how it pans out. Nobody
is
> going
> to be
> 100% on this as is evidenced by the gridlock on some of
the
> first
> true
> membership affecting votes from the LNC."
> We need to resolve and move forward.
> Richard
> --
> Richard Longstreth
> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, KS, MT, NM, OR, HI,
UT,
> WA,
> WY)
> Libertarian National Committee
> [1][2][3[26]]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> [27]931.538.9300
> References
> 1. mailto:[3][4[28]]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>
> --
> --
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
> - [4][29]Caryn.Ann.[30] Harlos at LP.org or[31] Secretary at LP.org.
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[32] LPedia at LP.org
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> We defend your rights
> And oppose the use of force
> Taxation is theft
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:[5[33]]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 2. mailto:[6[34]]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 3. mailto:[7[35]]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 4. mailto:[8[36]]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
--
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
- [9][37]Caryn.Ann.[38] Harlos at LP.org or[39] Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[40] LPedia at LP.org
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
We defend your rights
And oppose the use of force
Taxation is theft
References
1. mailto[41]:elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
2. mailto[42]:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
3. mailto[43]:richard.longstreth at lp.org
4. mailto[44]:richard.longstreth at lp.org
5. mailto[45]:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
6. mailto[46]:richard.longstreth at lp.org
7. mailto[47]:richard.longstreth at lp.org
8. mailto[48]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
9. mailto[49]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
References
1. http://www.lpcaucus.org/
2. tel:217-412-5973
3. mailto:;lnc-business at hq.lp.org
4. tel:2018-07-20 11
5. tel:2018-07-20 08
6. mailto:]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
7. mailto:]richard.longstreth at lp.org
8. tel:931.538.9300
9. mailto:]richard.longstreth at lp.org
10. http://Caryn.An/
11. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
12. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
13. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
14. mailto::lnc-business at hq.lp.org
15. mailto::richard.longstreth at lp.org
16. mailto::richard.longstreth at lp.org
17. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
18. http://Caryn.An/
19. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
20. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
21. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
22. tel:2018-07-20 11
23. mailto:]elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
24. tel:2018-07-20 08
25. mailto:]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
26. mailto:]richard.longstreth at lp.org
27. tel:931.538.9300
28. mailto:]richard.longstreth at lp.org
29. http://Caryn.An/
30. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
31. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
32. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
33. mailto:]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
34. mailto:]richard.longstreth at lp.org
35. mailto:]richard.longstreth at lp.org
36. mailto:]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
37. http://Caryn.An/
38. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
39. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
40. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
41. mailto::elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
42. mailto::lnc-business at hq.lp.org
43. mailto::richard.longstreth at lp.org
44. mailto::richard.longstreth at lp.org
45. mailto::lnc-business at hq.lp.org
46. mailto::richard.longstreth at lp.org
47. mailto::richard.longstreth at lp.org
48. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
49. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
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