[Lnc-business] Fwd: Confidence in LNC restored
Caryn Ann Harlos
caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
Mon Aug 13 21:40:30 EDT 2018
If I had to pick between coddling communism at our conventions and a naked
dancing man, give me the stripper.
The Libertarian Party being slow to say no to communism - my how we have
fallen.
-Caryn Ann
On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 7:09 PM Craig Bowden via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> Thankfully, we haven't made enough headway for some of these individuals
> to come up in opposition research to be used against our candidates.
> This is one of the reasons I had issues with Arvin before in what he was
> doing. Was it small? Absolutely. Thankfully it didn't get enough reach.
> But it was there in public to be seen by anyone who wanted to use it in
> a mailer against Laura Ebke, Jeff Hewitt, Brandon Phinney, Caleb Dyer,
> etc. in their elections.
>
> Having been involved in Republican campaigns in the past, I can tell you
> right now that with what I see regularly is a gold mine to be used
> against our candidates. Especially since some of the individuals who
> have been speaking up in favor of such things, though they enjoy a
> minority, also happen to be in leadership positions within local and
> state affiliates, which carries weight when using as an attribution. If
> you don't think things like this will be used, ask my Republican
> opponent about his dog carrier on the roof of his station wagon over 30
> years ago.
>
> That is how desperate the duopoly is in retaining its power. They will
> use anything they can, and we provide it for them. So heaven help a
> candidate in a major race hitting a breakaway moment and having these
> sorts of things sent in relation to them also being Libertarian.
>
> Speaking of, we have a former governor in a Senate race right now
> turning the Republican into a spoiler candidate instead of the claim
> being us being the spoiler. Opposition research is standard practice in
> politics. I don't like it, but that is reality.
>
> When we remain silent, we end up in a situation where there is no
> challenge from what is being spread. If we are free market, then we
> should be advocating it. If we are going to support non aggression, then
> we should be out there talking about it. We should highlight every
> person in our regions and our candidates doing exactly such things. And
> if other leaders in the party are saying otherwise, we should not be
> afraid to call it out. Whether we do so personally, or as a party. We
> should make sure to issue a correction on the matter.
>
> I have no problem working with anyone within the constructs of
> cooperation and non-coercion. However, once that person advocates
> violence, theft, etc. to get their ideology to fruition, that position
> will always be dammed by me. As a leader in the party, I am here to
> protect our candidates and our principles. I am here to help grow our
> movement with people who believe in dismantling corruption, cronyism,
> violence, and coercion in government. I am not here to give a platform
> for us to become a different tyranny.
>
> Maybe others feel differently. But so long as my soap box exists, and I
> have support from the region, I will advocate for the principles I was
> elected to uphold. Call it posturing. Call it grandstanding. I call it
> doing my job.
>
> Craig Bowden
> Region 1 Alternate
>
> On 2018-08-13 17:45, phillip.anderson--- via Lnc-business wrote:
> > Thankfully, the general public and electorate, and most of our
> > membership, are oblivious to these inside squabbles, and have a
> > pretty
> > good understanding of what libertarianism is and isn't from our
> > candidates. At least, whatever misconceptions the public might have
> > come from non-libertarians, not from the LNC or any caucus.
> >
> > Get [1]Outlook for Android
> >
> > On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 6:16 PM -0500, "Susan Hogarth via
> > Lnc-business"
> > <[2]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Isn’t it funny how a few trolls and their useful idiots can have us at
> > each oth
> > ers’ throats? Grandstanding, posturing, threatening to quit?
> >
> >
> >
> > If it had been planned it couldn’t have worked better.
> >
> >
> >
> > The LP has been around for over five decades, with plenty of left/right
> > fringers
> > trying to get a toehold. They will go, and until they do they are a
> > tiny minori
> > ty among us. The posturing and bulldogging gives them much more
> > credibility than
> > they would ever see within the party if they were simply shunned as
> > the fools t
> > hey are.
> >
> >
> >
> > I think we should assume less of a defensive posture - that makes us
> > look weak.
> > I don’t think we need denouncements or proclamations. These guys were
> > roundly re
> > jected at the Convention. Why keep letting them determine our discourse
> > and set
> > the tone of our conversations?
> >
> >
> >
> > Our words and actions should in almost every case describe what the
> > Libertarian
> > Party *is*, rather than be a response to what a few trolls want to make
> > it.
> >
> >
> >
> > By all means celebrate capitalism. I want to see the Party doing more
> > of that. A
> > ll this talking about communism *associates* communism and the LP. It
> > makes it s
> > eem as if we are facing a huge existential crisis and perilously close
> > to adopti
> > ng socialism as the LP’s preferred economic ideology We’re not.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Susan Jane Hogarth
> >
> > Region 5 Alternate
> >
> > 919-906-2106 (tel:919-906-2106)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >> On Aug 13, 2018 at 6:56 PM, wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I will state that as a candidate in Utah, if we moved toward
> >> socialism,
> >> I would burn my card and denounce the Libertarian Party mid-race.
> >> Principles are why I came here. If we don't stand up for them, I will
> >> be
> >> gone. That simple.
> >>
> >> Principles are: non aggression. Self-ownership.
> >>
> >> If we take that stand that non voluntary means are acceptable, such as
> >> the end result of socialism, then we are lost and I will be once again
> >> politically homeless. I have no problems with co-ops existing. You do
> >> you, but there must be the ability for a person to revoke consent and
> >> leave a commune in order for it to be voluntary. Since there has been
> >> advocacy for the forced taking of property, I cannot support that,
> >> will
> >> not support that, and anyone in Region 1 who has a problem with me
> >> saying such is welcome to demand a recall of my post with their
> >> chairs.
> >>
> >> It is NOT divisive to call out aggression in ideology.
> >>
> >> Craig Bowden
> >> Region 1 Alternate
> >>
> >> On 2018-08-13 13:10, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
> >> > Since a criticism lodged was about distraction from candidates-
> expect
> >> > letters from candidates who have expressed that it kept them in the
> >> > race because they could point to national leaders repudiating this.
> >> >
> >> > If you don’t think association with communism will come out and bite
> >> > our candidates in the ass, well....
> >> >
> >> > I know that not everyone cares about the sheerly ideological points
> >> > but
> >> > rather are election focused.
> >> >
> >> > How is welcoming communists and looting business owners going to
> >> > help
> >> > us at the polls??
> >> >
> >> > It isn’t.
> >> >
> >> > -Caryn Ann
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 12:55 PM Justin O'Donnell via Lnc-business
> >> > <[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I received the following email, espousing praise for Ms Harlos and
> >> > Mr
> >> > Smith for their opposition to socialist influence in the LP.
> >> > ---
> >> > Yours in Liberty,
> >> > Justin O'Donnell
> >> > LNC Region 8 Representative
> >> > LPNH Alternate- LNC Platform Committee
> >> > Chair- LPNH Platform Committee
> >> > Candidate for US Congress, NH-2
> >> > [2]www.odonnell2018.org
> >> > -------- Original Message --------
> >> > Subject: Confidence in LNC restored
> >> > Date: 2018-08-13 14:48
> >> > From: demochamp <[3]demochamp at yahoo.com>
> >> > To: [4]justin.odonnell at lp.org
> >> > Hello my name is Michael Cordova I am a Libertarian party member
> >> > from
> >> > Albuquerque New Mexico.
> >> > Last week after much consideration I renewed my membership to
> >> > the
> >> > Libertarian party
> >> > I had recently let my membership lapse for several months trying
> >> > to
> >> > figure out where I belong, due to the recent run for national
> >> > chair
> >> > by a
> >> > self proclaimed socialist as well as rhetoric from the libertarian
> >> > socialist caucus. I had lost hope that I belonged in the LP. I do
> >> > not
> >> > support "bottom unity" and fail to understand how socialism of any
> >> > kind
> >> > is compatible with the LP.
> >> > I am writing this e-mail because several members of the LNC
> >> > have
> >> > stepped up and spoken out against socialism and what I consider an
> >> > attempted socialist takeover.
> >> > I would like to personally thank:
> >> > Caryn Ann Harlos & Joshua Smith
> >> > They both have renewed my confidence in the LP leadership and have
> >> > giving me hope for the future of the party.
> >> > I can now tell my friends and family who were hesitant to join
> >> > the
> >> > party due to the ties to left wing economic policies like Medicare
> >> > for
> >> > all and ideas like rent is theft and capitalism is murder, that
> >> > those
> >> > ideas and policies do not represent me nor the Libertarian party.
> >> > Thanks again.
> >> > Michael Cordova
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > In Liberty,
> >> > Caryn Ann Harlos
> >> > Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
> >> > - [5]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> >> > Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
> >> > A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> >> > We defend your rights
> >> > And oppose the use of force
> >> > Taxation is theft
> >> >
> >> > References
> >> >
> >> > 1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> >> > 2. http://www.odonnell2018.org/
> >> > 3. mailto:demochamp at yahoo.com
> >> > 4. mailto:justin.odonnell at lp.org
> >> > 5. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > References
> >
> > 1. https://aka.ms/ghei36
> > 2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> --
--
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
*We defend your rights*
*And oppose the use of force*
*Taxation is theft*
-------------- next part --------------
If I had to pick between coddling communism at our conventions and a
naked dancing man, give me the stripper.
The Libertarian Party being slow to say no to communism - my how we
have fallen.
-Caryn Ann
On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 7:09 PM Craig Bowden via Lnc-business
<[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
Thankfully, we haven't made enough headway for some of these
individuals
to come up in opposition research to be used against our candidates.
This is one of the reasons I had issues with Arvin before in what he
was
doing. Was it small? Absolutely. Thankfully it didn't get enough
reach.
But it was there in public to be seen by anyone who wanted to use it
in
a mailer against Laura Ebke, Jeff Hewitt, Brandon Phinney, Caleb
Dyer,
etc. in their elections.
Having been involved in Republican campaigns in the past, I can tell
you
right now that with what I see regularly is a gold mine to be used
against our candidates. Especially since some of the individuals who
have been speaking up in favor of such things, though they enjoy a
minority, also happen to be in leadership positions within local and
state affiliates, which carries weight when using as an attribution.
If
you don't think things like this will be used, ask my Republican
opponent about his dog carrier on the roof of his station wagon over
30
years ago.
That is how desperate the duopoly is in retaining its power. They
will
use anything they can, and we provide it for them. So heaven help a
candidate in a major race hitting a breakaway moment and having
these
sorts of things sent in relation to them also being Libertarian.
Speaking of, we have a former governor in a Senate race right now
turning the Republican into a spoiler candidate instead of the claim
being us being the spoiler. Opposition research is standard practice
in
politics. I don't like it, but that is reality.
When we remain silent, we end up in a situation where there is no
challenge from what is being spread. If we are free market, then we
should be advocating it. If we are going to support non aggression,
then
we should be out there talking about it. We should highlight every
person in our regions and our candidates doing exactly such things.
And
if other leaders in the party are saying otherwise, we should not be
afraid to call it out. Whether we do so personally, or as a party.
We
should make sure to issue a correction on the matter.
I have no problem working with anyone within the constructs of
cooperation and non-coercion. However, once that person advocates
violence, theft, etc. to get their ideology to fruition, that
position
will always be dammed by me. As a leader in the party, I am here to
protect our candidates and our principles. I am here to help grow
our
movement with people who believe in dismantling corruption,
cronyism,
violence, and coercion in government. I am not here to give a
platform
for us to become a different tyranny.
Maybe others feel differently. But so long as my soap box exists,
and I
have support from the region, I will advocate for the principles I
was
elected to uphold. Call it posturing. Call it grandstanding. I call
it
doing my job.
Craig Bowden
Region 1 Alternate
On 2018-08-13 17:45, phillip.anderson--- via Lnc-business wrote:
> Thankfully, the general public and electorate, and most of our
> membership, are oblivious to these inside squabbles, and have a
> pretty
> good understanding of what libertarianism is and isn't from our
> candidates. At least, whatever misconceptions the public might
have
> come from non-libertarians, not from the LNC or any caucus.
>
> Get [1]Outlook for Android
>
> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 6:16 PM -0500, "Susan Hogarth via
> Lnc-business"
> <[2][2]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Isn’t it funny how a few trolls and their useful idiots can have
us at
> each oth
> ers’ throats? Grandstanding, posturing, threatening to quit?
>
>
>
> If it had been planned it couldn’t have worked better.
>
>
>
> The LP has been around for over five decades, with plenty of
left/right
> fringers
> trying to get a toehold. They will go, and until they do they are
a
> tiny minori
> ty among us. The posturing and bulldogging gives them much more
> credibility than
> they would ever see within the party if they were simply shunned
as
> the fools t
> hey are.
>
>
>
> I think we should assume less of a defensive posture - that makes
us
> look weak.
> I don’t think we need denouncements or proclamations. These guys
were
> roundly re
> jected at the Convention. Why keep letting them determine our
discourse
> and set
> the tone of our conversations?
>
>
>
> Our words and actions should in almost every case describe what
the
> Libertarian
> Party *is*, rather than be a response to what a few trolls want to
make
> it.
>
>
>
> By all means celebrate capitalism. I want to see the Party doing
more
> of that. A
> ll this talking about communism *associates* communism and the LP.
It
> makes it s
> eem as if we are facing a huge existential crisis and perilously
close
> to adopti
> ng socialism as the LP’s preferred economic ideology We’re not.
>
>
>
>
> Susan Jane Hogarth
>
> Region 5 Alternate
>
> 919-906-2106 (tel:919-906-2106)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> On Aug 13, 2018 at 6:56 PM, wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I will state that as a candidate in Utah, if we moved toward
>> socialism,
>> I would burn my card and denounce the Libertarian Party mid-race.
>> Principles are why I came here. If we don't stand up for them, I
will
>> be
>> gone. That simple.
>>
>> Principles are: non aggression. Self-ownership.
>>
>> If we take that stand that non voluntary means are acceptable,
such as
>> the end result of socialism, then we are lost and I will be once
again
>> politically homeless. I have no problems with co-ops existing.
You do
>> you, but there must be the ability for a person to revoke consent
and
>> leave a commune in order for it to be voluntary. Since there has
been
>> advocacy for the forced taking of property, I cannot support
that,
>> will
>> not support that, and anyone in Region 1 who has a problem with
me
>> saying such is welcome to demand a recall of my post with their
>> chairs.
>>
>> It is NOT divisive to call out aggression in ideology.
>>
>> Craig Bowden
>> Region 1 Alternate
>>
>> On 2018-08-13 13:10, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
>> > Since a criticism lodged was about distraction from
candidates- expect
>> > letters from candidates who have expressed that it kept them
in the
>> > race because they could point to national leaders repudiating
this.
>> >
>> > If you don’t think association with communism will come out
and bite
>> > our candidates in the ass, well....
>> >
>> > I know that not everyone cares about the sheerly ideological
points
>> > but
>> > rather are election focused.
>> >
>> > How is welcoming communists and looting business owners going
to
>> > help
>> > us at the polls??
>> >
>> > It isn’t.
>> >
>> > -Caryn Ann
>> >
>> > On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 12:55 PM Justin O'Donnell via
Lnc-business
>> > <[1][3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > I received the following email, espousing praise for Ms Harlos
and
>> > Mr
>> > Smith for their opposition to socialist influence in the LP.
>> > ---
>> > Yours in Liberty,
>> > Justin O'Donnell
>> > LNC Region 8 Representative
>> > LPNH Alternate- LNC Platform Committee
>> > Chair- LPNH Platform Committee
>> > Candidate for US Congress, NH-2
>> > [2][4]www.odonnell2018.org
>> > -------- Original Message --------
>> > Subject: Confidence in LNC restored
>> > Date: 2018-08-13 14:48
>> > From: demochamp <[3][5]demochamp at yahoo.com>
>> > To: [4][6]justin.odonnell at lp.org
>> > Hello my name is Michael Cordova I am a Libertarian party
member
>> > from
>> > Albuquerque New Mexico.
>> > Last week after much consideration I renewed my membership to
>> > the
>> > Libertarian party
>> > I had recently let my membership lapse for several months
trying
>> > to
>> > figure out where I belong, due to the recent run for national
>> > chair
>> > by a
>> > self proclaimed socialist as well as rhetoric from the
libertarian
>> > socialist caucus. I had lost hope that I belonged in the LP. I
do
>> > not
>> > support "bottom unity" and fail to understand how socialism of
any
>> > kind
>> > is compatible with the LP.
>> > I am writing this e-mail because several members of the LNC
>> > have
>> > stepped up and spoken out against socialism and what I
consider an
>> > attempted socialist takeover.
>> > I would like to personally thank:
>> > Caryn Ann Harlos & Joshua Smith
>> > They both have renewed my confidence in the LP leadership and
have
>> > giving me hope for the future of the party.
>> > I can now tell my friends and family who were hesitant to join
>> > the
>> > party due to the ties to left wing economic policies like
Medicare
>> > for
>> > all and ideas like rent is theft and capitalism is murder,
that
>> > those
>> > ideas and policies do not represent me nor the Libertarian
party.
>> > Thanks again.
>> > Michael Cordova
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > --
>> > In Liberty,
>> > Caryn Ann Harlos
>> > Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>> > - [5]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>> > Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>> > A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> > We defend your rights
>> > And oppose the use of force
>> > Taxation is theft
>> >
>> > References
>> >
>> > 1. mailto:[7]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> > 2. [8]http://www.odonnell2018.org/
>> > 3. mailto:[9]demochamp at yahoo.com
>> > 4. mailto:[10]justin.odonnell at lp.org
>> > 5. mailto:[11]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>
>>
>>
>
> References
>
> 1. [12]https://aka.ms/ghei36
> 2. mailto:[13]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
--
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
- [14]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
We defend your rights
And oppose the use of force
Taxation is theft
References
1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
4. http://www.odonnell2018.org/
5. mailto:demochamp at yahoo.com
6. mailto:justin.odonnell at lp.org
7. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
8. http://www.odonnell2018.org/
9. mailto:demochamp at yahoo.com
10. mailto:justin.odonnell at lp.org
11. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
12. https://aka.ms/ghei36
13. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
14. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
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