[Lnc-business] Complaints from members
Susan Hogarth
susan.hogarth at lp.org
Tue Aug 14 12:16:17 EDT 2018
And I will thank you to stop representing one or a few emails from members in one state or region as some sort of expression of that state/region’s voice.
No one is calling for a purge.
The issue with ‘purge’ is not that you want one, but that it can easily be spun that way by others or honestly percieved that way by many members. And *that* is why we should be super cautious about this sort of ideological policing.
By all means let’s craft stromg statements about what we *represent*, and not give so much publicity to a few people within the party who may represent something different.
Susan Jane Hogarth
Region 5 Alternate
919-906-2106 (tel:919-906-2106)
>
> On Aug 14, 2018 at 11:50 AM, <Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business (mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org)> wrote:
>
>
>
> I thank you to stop misrepresenting the position as a purge effort.
>
> I have stated a million times that is not my position.
>
> -Caryn Ann
>
> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 9:46 AM john.phillips--- via Lnc-business
> <[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
> Ok guys. We get it. I don't think anyone here cares for
> socialism.
> And we could trade emails of people complaining both ways all
> damn day,
> because I have plenty of members and candidates IRATE over this
> body
> and party leadership putting this at the head of the priority
> list. Oh
> and I am one of those candidates. John Phillips for County
> Board.
> You don't think maybe we have better things to do than argue over
> your
> urge to purge?
> Lets start with an admitted pedophile and rapist being on our
> roles as
> a lifetime member? Yes Wes removed him from the online list,
> sick
> bastard is still a member. Maybe that is a little more important
> than
> a couple fools saying "rent is theft"? Or are the bulkshit "muh
> rules"
> REEEEE's to strong? how is this not more important than 10
> deluded
> people who couldn't say anything without getting booed?
> We have A LOT of people saying DUI is a not a crime if no one
> gets
> hurt, that is a bit more of an issue than 10 goofy people who got
> booed
> off stage saying rent is theft.
> We have a thousand candidates looming for volunteers and help.
> How
> about getting that handled? I noticed the convo about PA has
> dropped
> off the map. As have all the other candidate support questions.
> How
> is that not more important than 10 silly people who kept getting
> booed
> off?
> How about we teach our candidates how to answer hard questions?
> Every
> party has their lunatic fringe, the old parties have shown that
> the
> best way to marginalize them is not give them press. The
> response is
> easy when people ask is easy;
> " Republicans have people like the WBC and people calling for
> violence
> against transgender children, Democrats have people painting
> themselves
> in period blood and calling for white people to die. Both bomb
> children, but your worried about a fool saying rent is theft."
> I get a laugh and a sheepish nod EVERY time I use that response.
> AND at least 2 of the people pushing this the hardest are
> survivors of
> recent purge attempts themselves. Radicals, anarchists, and the
> Mises
> caucus were all attacked in my current memory Is that Irony? Or
> is it
> just being a damned hypocrite?
> You know who else did purges? Here is a list that I would think
> people
> who claim to be interested in history might be familiar with.
>
> [1][2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Political_and_cultural_
> purges
> Funny, lots of communists and fascists seem to like purges ...
> Y'all are acting like a bunch of school children rather than
> the
> adults we are supposed to be, especially compared to the other
> two
> parties.
> Did you forget we are the party that encourages individual
> thought?
> You start purging and making big deals about every sap that says
> stupid
> shit we will never get ANYTHING done, because boy we have a lot
> of
> people that say stupid shit.
> Make your damn "rent is not theft" motion and move the fuck on.
> I even
> agree with that statement.
> We have more important stuff to do, stop with the immature
> bullshit and
> lets do that. It is embarrassing that I even have to say that.
> Anything else on this pile of horse shit will just be
> automatically
> deleted as far as I'm concerned.
> John Phillips
> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
> Cell [2]217-412-5973
> ------ Original message------
> From: Steven Nekhaila via Lnc-business
> Date: Tue, Aug 14, 2018 9:57 AM
> To: [3][3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org;
> Cc: Steven Nekhaila;
> Subject:Re: [Lnc-business] Complaints from members
> Dear Colleagues,
> I stand behind the Statement of Principles and libertarian ideals. I
> vow
> to fight socialism in the Libertarian Party and collectivism in all
> of
> its forms. Socialism and Libertarianism are incompatible, even
> anarchist
> sects of socialism which are diametrically opposed to the tenets of
> the
> very ideology this organization is poised to promote. I will not be
> silent, and I applaud my colleagues who are standing up against this
> entryism.
> In Liberty,
> Steven Nekhaila
> Region 2 Representative
> Libertarian National Committee
> Impotentes defendere libertatum non possunt
> "Those without power cannot defend freedom"
> On [4]2018-08-13 05:42 PM, brent.olsen--- via Lnc-business wrote:
> > I'm with you.
> >
> > -Brent
> >
> > On [5]2018-08-13 09:30, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
> >> I am in favour of member voices being heard. And if that is
> where we
> >> are going who wants to bet how many more support me for
> rejecting
> >> socialism? Any bets?
> >> Will this LNC take a stand against completely inimical
> entryism or
> >> are
> >> we only brave with white nationalists?
> >> -Caryn Ann
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 9:57 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos
> >> <[1[6]][4]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> And I will be clear.
> >> I have zero intention of promoting unity with socialism. Or
> >> communism. EVER. Mr. Shipley can file a standing complaint
> >> because I
> >> will not be stopping. I have only just begun.
> >> -Caryn Ann
> >>
> >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 9:54 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos
> >> <[2[7]][5]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Yes I absolutely said we have no unity with these messages and
> I
> >> will
> >> continue to do so at every opportunity I have.
> >> There are member complaints given to me that the LNC is
> shamefully
> >> silent about leftist infiltration.
> >> No unity with socialism.
> >> No unity with communism.
> >> Does any LNC member want to defend unity with the below? The
> >> membership deserves to know if you do.
> >> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 9:47 AM Richard Longstreth via
> Lnc-business
> >> <[3[8]][6]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> As promised to those members, I will bring their
> complaints to
> >> the LNC.
> >> I have encouraged all parties to to submit formal
> complaints
> >> with
> >> greivances if they expect to see action. I do not want to
> turn
> >> this
> >> into a bashing session but do want their thoughts heard.
> >> Caryn Ann Harlos is accused by two members of abusing her
> >> position to
> >> send a message of anti-unity within the LP amongst
> >> philosophical
> >> libertarians.
> >> Joshua Smith is accused of unprofessional behavior and
> >> personal
> >> attacks
> >> on Facebook.
> >> If a formal complaint comes through, I will supply more
> >> information.
> >> Richard
> >> --
> >> Richard Longstreth
> >> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, KS, MT, NM, OR, HI,
> UT,
> >> WA,
> >> WY)
> >> Libertarian National Committee
> >> [1][4[9]][7]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> >> [10]931.538.9300
> >> References
> >> 1. mailto:[5[11]][8]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> >>
> >> --
> >> --
> >> In Liberty,
> >> Caryn Ann Harlos
> >> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
> >> - [6][12]Caryn.Ann.[13] Harlos at LP.org or[14] Secretary at LP.org.
> >> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[15]
> LPedia at LP.org
> >> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> >> We defend your rights
> >> And oppose the use of force
> >> Taxation is theft
> >>
> >> --
> >> --
> >> In Liberty,
> >> Caryn Ann Harlos
> >> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
> >> - [7][16]Caryn.Ann.[17] Harlos at LP.org or[18] Secretary at LP.org.
> >> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[19]
> LPedia at LP.org
> >> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> >> We defend your rights
> >> And oppose the use of force
> >> Taxation is theft
> >>
> >> References
> >>
> >> 1. mailto[20]:[9]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> >> 2. mailto[21]:[10]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> >> 3. mailto[22]:[11]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> >> 4. mailto[23]:[12]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> >> 5. mailto[24]:[13]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> >> 6. mailto[25]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> >> 7. mailto[26]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> References
> 1.
> [14]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Political_and_cultural_pu
> rges
> 2. tel:217-412-5973
> 3. mailto:[15]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 4. tel:2018-08-13 05
> 5. tel:2018-08-13 09
> 6. mailto:][16]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> 7. mailto:][17]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> 8. mailto:][18]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 9. mailto:][19]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 10. tel:931.538.9300
> 11. mailto:][20]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 12. [21]http://Caryn.An/
> 13. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
> 14. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
> 15. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
> 16. [22]http://Caryn.An/
> 17. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
> 18. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
> 19. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
> 20. mailto::[23]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> 21. mailto::[24]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> 22. mailto::[25]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 23. mailto::[26]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 24. mailto::[27]richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 25. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 26. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>
> --
>
> --
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
> - [28]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> We defend your rights
> And oppose the use of force
> Taxation is theft
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Political_and_cultural_purges
> 3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 4. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> 5. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> 6. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 7. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 8. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 9. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> 10. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> 11. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 12. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 13. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 14. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Political_and_cultural_purges
> 15. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 16. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> 17. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> 18. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 19. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 20. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 21. http://Caryn.An/
> 22. http://Caryn.An/
> 23. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> 24. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> 25. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 26. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 27. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 28. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
And I will thank you to stop representing one or a few emails from
members in one state or region as some sort of expression of that
state/region’s voice.
No one is calling for a purge.
The issue with ‘purge’ is not that you want one, but that it can easily
be spun that way by others or honestly percieved that way by many
members. And *that* is why we should be super cautious about this sort
of ideological policing.
By all means let’s craft stromg statements about what we *represent*,
and not give so much publicity to a few people within the party who may
represent something different.
Susan Jane Hogarth
Region 5 Alternate
[1]919-906-2106
On Aug 14, 2018 at 11:50 AM, <[2]Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business>
wrote:
I thank you to stop misrepresenting the position as a purge effort.
I have stated a million times that is not my position.
-Caryn Ann
On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 9:46 AM john.phillips--- via Lnc-business
<[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
Ok guys. We get it. I don't think anyone here cares for
socialism.
And we could trade emails of people complaining both ways all
damn day,
because I have plenty of members and candidates IRATE over this
body
and party leadership putting this at the head of the priority
list. Oh
and I am one of those candidates. John Phillips for County
Board.
You don't think maybe we have better things to do than argue over
your
urge to purge?
Lets start with an admitted pedophile and rapist being on our
roles as
a lifetime member? Yes Wes removed him from the online list,
sick
bastard is still a member. Maybe that is a little more important
than
a couple fools saying "rent is theft"? Or are the bulkshit "muh
rules"
REEEEE's to strong? how is this not more important than 10
deluded
people who couldn't say anything without getting booed?
We have A LOT of people saying DUI is a not a crime if no one
gets
hurt, that is a bit more of an issue than 10 goofy people who got
booed
off stage saying rent is theft.
We have a thousand candidates looming for volunteers and help.
How
about getting that handled? I noticed the convo about PA has
dropped
off the map. As have all the other candidate support questions.
How
is that not more important than 10 silly people who kept getting
booed
off?
How about we teach our candidates how to answer hard questions?
Every
party has their lunatic fringe, the old parties have shown that
the
best way to marginalize them is not give them press. The
response is
easy when people ask is easy;
" Republicans have people like the WBC and people calling for
violence
against transgender children, Democrats have people painting
themselves
in period blood and calling for white people to die. Both bomb
children, but your worried about a fool saying rent is theft."
I get a laugh and a sheepish nod EVERY time I use that response.
AND at least 2 of the people pushing this the hardest are
survivors of
recent purge attempts themselves. Radicals, anarchists, and the
Mises
caucus were all attacked in my current memory Is that Irony? Or
is it
just being a damned hypocrite?
You know who else did purges? Here is a list that I would think
people
who claim to be interested in history might be familiar with.
[1][2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Political_and_cultural_
purges
Funny, lots of communists and fascists seem to like purges ...
Y'all are acting like a bunch of school children rather than
the
adults we are supposed to be, especially compared to the other
two
parties.
Did you forget we are the party that encourages individual
thought?
You start purging and making big deals about every sap that says
stupid
shit we will never get ANYTHING done, because boy we have a lot
of
people that say stupid shit.
Make your damn "rent is not theft" motion and move the fuck on.
I even
agree with that statement.
We have more important stuff to do, stop with the immature
bullshit and
lets do that. It is embarrassing that I even have to say that.
Anything else on this pile of horse shit will just be
automatically
deleted as far as I'm concerned.
John Phillips
Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
Cell [2]217-412-5973
------ Original message------
From: Steven Nekhaila via Lnc-business
Date: Tue, Aug 14, 2018 9:57 AM
To: [3][3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org;
Cc: Steven Nekhaila;
Subject:Re: [Lnc-business] Complaints from members
Dear Colleagues,
I stand behind the Statement of Principles and libertarian ideals. I
vow
to fight socialism in the Libertarian Party and collectivism in all
of
its forms. Socialism and Libertarianism are incompatible, even
anarchist
sects of socialism which are diametrically opposed to the tenets of
the
very ideology this organization is poised to promote. I will not be
silent, and I applaud my colleagues who are standing up against this
entryism.
In Liberty,
Steven Nekhaila
Region 2 Representative
Libertarian National Committee
Impotentes defendere libertatum non possunt
"Those without power cannot defend freedom"
On [4]2018-08-13 05:42 PM, brent.olsen--- via Lnc-business wrote:
> I'm with you.
>
> -Brent
>
> On [5]2018-08-13 09:30, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
>> I am in favour of member voices being heard. And if that is
where we
>> are going who wants to bet how many more support me for
rejecting
>> socialism? Any bets?
>> Will this LNC take a stand against completely inimical
entryism or
>> are
>> we only brave with white nationalists?
>> -Caryn Ann
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 9:57 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos
>> <[1[6]][4]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
>>
>> And I will be clear.
>> I have zero intention of promoting unity with socialism. Or
>> communism. EVER. Mr. Shipley can file a standing complaint
>> because I
>> will not be stopping. I have only just begun.
>> -Caryn Ann
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 9:54 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos
>> <[2[7]][5]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
>>
>> Yes I absolutely said we have no unity with these messages and
I
>> will
>> continue to do so at every opportunity I have.
>> There are member complaints given to me that the LNC is
shamefully
>> silent about leftist infiltration.
>> No unity with socialism.
>> No unity with communism.
>> Does any LNC member want to defend unity with the below? The
>> membership deserves to know if you do.
>> On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 9:47 AM Richard Longstreth via
Lnc-business
>> <[3[8]][6]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>
>> As promised to those members, I will bring their
complaints to
>> the LNC.
>> I have encouraged all parties to to submit formal
complaints
>> with
>> greivances if they expect to see action. I do not want to
turn
>> this
>> into a bashing session but do want their thoughts heard.
>> Caryn Ann Harlos is accused by two members of abusing her
>> position to
>> send a message of anti-unity within the LP amongst
>> philosophical
>> libertarians.
>> Joshua Smith is accused of unprofessional behavior and
>> personal
>> attacks
>> on Facebook.
>> If a formal complaint comes through, I will supply more
>> information.
>> Richard
>> --
>> Richard Longstreth
>> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, KS, MT, NM, OR, HI,
UT,
>> WA,
>> WY)
>> Libertarian National Committee
>> [1][4[9]][7]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> [10]931.538.9300
>> References
>> 1. mailto:[5[11]][8]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>
>> --
>> --
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>> - [6][12]Caryn.Ann.[13] Harlos at LP.org or[14] Secretary at LP.org.
>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[15]
LPedia at LP.org
>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> We defend your rights
>> And oppose the use of force
>> Taxation is theft
>>
>> --
>> --
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>> - [7][16]Caryn.Ann.[17] Harlos at LP.org or[18] Secretary at LP.org.
>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[19]
LPedia at LP.org
>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> We defend your rights
>> And oppose the use of force
>> Taxation is theft
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto[20]:[9]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
>> 2. mailto[21]:[10]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
>> 3. mailto[22]:[11]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 4. mailto[23]:[12]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 5. mailto[24]:[13]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 6. mailto[25]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> 7. mailto[26]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
References
1.
[14]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Political_and_cultural_pu
rges
2. tel:217-412-5973
3. mailto:[15]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
4. tel:2018-08-13 05
5. tel:2018-08-13 09
6. mailto:][16]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
7. mailto:][17]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
8. mailto:][18]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
9. mailto:][19]richard.longstreth at lp.org
10. tel:931.538.9300
11. mailto:][20]richard.longstreth at lp.org
12. [21]http://Caryn.An/
13. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
14. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
15. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
16. [22]http://Caryn.An/
17. mailto: Harlos at LP.org
18. mailto: Secretary at LP.org.
19. mailto: LPedia at LP.org
20. mailto::[23]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
21. mailto::[24]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
22. mailto::[25]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
23. mailto::[26]richard.longstreth at lp.org
24. mailto::[27]richard.longstreth at lp.org
25. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
26. mailto::Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
--
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
- [28]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
We defend your rights
And oppose the use of force
Taxation is theft
References
1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Political_and_cultural_purges
3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
4. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
5. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
6. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
7. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
8. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
9. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
10. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
11. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
12. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
13. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
14. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Political_and_cultural_purges
15. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
16. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
17. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
18. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
19. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
20. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
21. http://Caryn.An/
22. http://Caryn.An/
23. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
24. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
25. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
26. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
27. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
28. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
References
1. tel:919-906-2106
2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
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