[Lnc-business] Seeking Co-Sponsors for Resolution to Re-Affirm The LP's Stance For Property Rights
Jeff Lyons
jeff.lyons at lp.org
Tue Aug 14 18:07:59 EDT 2018
Good Afternoon,
There are a bunch of different threads on this whole property
rights vs. libsoc thing. I don't get where these discussions are going,
I'm not going to go through it and as an Alternate my vote won't decide
anything anyways. I just think this is a completely fruitless effort, a
waste of time, and of brainpower.
Some Libertarians have good ideas, some have bad ideas. The answer
is MORE speech, more dialogue, more ideas, and the good ideas will
always win eventually. People are smart enough to decide for themselves
if socialism can be voluntary or if property should be personally /
privately owned. Let them debate it all they want. I don't think
anyone who can't make a serious case for whatever their ideology is will
last long before they learn something new and inevitably evolve their
position. Libertarians don't have to agree on everything and I don't
think we should bother trying to force them to get along. The people
will figure it out on their own, through their discussions.
I respectfully disagree there is even a need for US to have this
discussion and vote no on whatever the resolution is because I don't
think we really need one. At all. Ever. That's not our job.
--
In Liberty,
Jeff Lyons
Region 8 Alternate
(Acting Region 8 Rep)
Libertarian Assoc. of MA
Membership Director
http://www.lpmass.org/join
Daniel Fishman for Auditor
Campaign Manager
http://www.AuditMassachusetts.com
On 2018-08-14 15:37, Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business wrote:
> BS.
> (all about brevity ; )
>
> ---
> Elizabeth Van Horn
>
> On 2018-08-14 15:34, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>
> The brevity caucus keeps the exegesis of our Platform out.
>
>
>
> It becomes necessary to apply and explicate.
>
>
>
> -Caryn Ann
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 1:29 PM Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business
> <[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
> Then why not a resolution saying that the LNC stands in support of
> our
> LP platform? Because, I think it's pretty obvious that we do.
> (Although, I know that the Radical caucus, Mises caucus, and
> libsocs,
> all have their *own* platforms. I support our LP platform, and
> that's a
> founding point of the caucus I'm in, that we don't have a separate
> platform, we instead embrace the LP platform.
> Do all the board members in various caucuses want to come out in
> favor
> of the *LP Platform*? I like to see that resolution.
> ---
> Elizabeth Van Horn
> On 2018-08-14 15:07, Justin O'Donnell via Lnc-business wrote:
> > This resolution is an affirmation of that platform and it's
> underlying
> > principles. It serves simply to acknowledge rhetoric contrary to
> our
> > platform and affirm that the Libertarian Party stands by the
> messaging
> > and platform adopted by it's delegates in convention, as opposed
> to
> > those who would argue otherwise. It does not purge anyone, but
> simply
> > distances the LP from their economic views. They are members,
> and
> many
> > will remain so, but the resolution is to affirm that their
> outspoken
> > beliefs do not represent the party as a whole. Some of these
> > individual members are even candidates in profiled races, where
> they
> > are espousing ideas contrary to our platform, and it is
> incumbent
> upon
> > this body to recognize that this is a risk to the integrity of
> our
> > messaging. An individual or a candidate may proclaim whatever
> platform
> > they wish, but when they claim that it is representative of
> > Libertarian Ideology when it is clearly contrary to our platform
> and
> > statement of principles, it requires an acknowledgement from the
> LNC.
> >
> > ---
> > Yours in Liberty,
> >
> > Justin O'Donnell
> > LNC Region 8 Representative
> > LPNH Alternate- LNC Platform Committee
> > Chair- LPNH Platform Committee
> > Candidate for US Congress, NH-2
> > [2]www.odonnell2018.org
> >
> > On 2018-08-14 15:01, Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business wrote:
> >> We have a platform that states what we stand for, and you were
> the
> >> platform committee chair for 2018. I was on that committee,
> as
> >> were
> >> several other members of this board.
> >> Did we not do our duty? Did we leave the platform to be
> ambiguous
> >> and
> >> confusing? I don't think so.
> >> Our wonderful LP platform speaks for the LP, and tells
> prospective
> >> members where we stand. We educate from that document, and
> I
> know
> >> that you understand this, as you were instrumental in doing
> >> platform
> >> plank posts on social media. You know that the platform
> speaks for
> >> us
> >> on issues of property rights.
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Elizabeth Van Horn
> >>
> >> On 2018-08-14 14:55, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
> >>
> >> It is quite problematic that stating the Party's
> foundational
> >> Principles is controversial or thought to need a platform
> change.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> We have gone far from our roots.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Caryn Ann
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 12:51 PM Elizabeth Van Horn via
> >> Lnc-business
> >> <[1][3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> I also would have supported the first effort (with my
> language
> >> changes)
> >> as it was a clear support of capitalism. Too bad that
> wasn't
> >> embraced.
> >> On this list I've seen multiple times someone talk about
> past
> >> actions as
> >> a reason, (we denounced that, so why not this?) the more
> times I
> >> see,
> >> the more this looks like a grudge match.
> >> As the players in this drama, and yes it's a big drama on
> social
> >> media,
> >> are ones that have had an ongoing war-of-words with the
> targets
> >> of
> >> this
> >> suggested resolution. Only, some of the players also
> happen
> to
> >> be
> >> on
> >> the LNC, and are now using that position to escalate.
> >> I was willing to support a resolution that embraced
> capitalism,
> >> as I
> >> live my life as a capitalist. It is my economic system of
> choice,
> >> and I
> >> make an effort to teach this to others.
> >> Too bad this isn't about championing the wonderful
> economic
> >> system
> >> of
> >> capitalism, but instead is about targeting a few noisy LP
> >> members.
> >> ---
> >> Elizabeth Van Horn
> >> On 2018-08-14 14:26, john.phillips--- via Lnc-business
> wrote:
> >> > This is not the same language as was presented and
> discussed
> >> earlier.
> >> > Just to clarify for people who may just be skimming.
> >> > I probably would have gone along with the first.
> This
> one
> >> is
> >> toxic
> >> > and
> >> > the language clearly meant to be be a purge.
> >> > If it was just a supporting of property rights I
> would
> >> absolutely
> >> > support it. This is far more than that, and honestly
> far
> >> exceeds
> >> > the
> >> > scope of the duties of this body. It is a direct
> change to
> >> policy
> >> > seriously impacts current members and activists.
> >> > If you want a platform change take it to Austin. That
> is not
> >> our
> >> > job.
> >> > I will be voting no on this, and urge everyone else
> to
> >> seriously
> >> > consider whether they support a precedent of purging
> groups.
> >> Not to
> >> > mention how many of you during the JC discussion were
> >> treading
> >> very
> >> > carefully about not exceeding our scope, a point that
> was
> >> well
> >> taken
> >> > after reflection, will you be consistent here?
> >> > John Phillips
> >> > Libertarian National Committee Region 6
> Representative
> >> > Cell [1]217-412-5973
> >> >
> >> > ------ Original message------
> >> > From: Steven Nekhaila via Lnc-business
> >> > Date: Tue, Aug 14, 2018 10:50 AM
> >> > To: LNC-Business List;
> >> > Cc: Steven Nekhaila;
> >> > Subject:[Lnc-business] Seeking Co-Sponsors for
> Resolution to
> >> > Re-Affirm
> >> > The LP's Stance For Property Rights
> >> > Dear Colleagues,
> >> >
> >> > I invite you to co-sponsor the following resolution
> which
> >> disavows
> >> > socialist & communist policies and re-affirms the
> Libertarian
> >> Party
> >> > position on championing property rights.
> >> >
> >> > Co-Sponsors: Joshua Smith, Justin O'Donnel, and Caryn
> Ann
> >> Harlos
> >> >
> >> > WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party supports the free market
> and
> >> therefore
> >> > the right of privatization of property as an extension
> of
> the
> >> > individual;
> >> >
> >> > WHEREAS, the Statement of Principles of The Libertarian
> Party
> >> > explicitly
> >> > supports the right to private property ownership,
> including the
> >> right
> >> > to
> >> > do business utilizing that property as capital;
> >> >
> >> > WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party strongly supports the
> rights of
> >> > individuals to own private property including land,
> structures,
> >> natural
> >> > resources and other private space through homesteading,
> >> purchase,
> >> and
> >> > other lawful libertarian means;
> >> >
> >> > WHEREAS, ownership of private property, including but
> not
> >> limited
> >> to
> >> > land and housing, does not require continual or personal
> use to
> >> exist
> >> > as
> >> > justly owned property unless otherwise abandoned;
> >> >
> >> > WHEREAS, these have been part of the principles of the
> >> Libertarian
> >> > Party
> >> > since its inception;
> >> >
> >> > THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that socialist and communist
> >> property
> >> > ownership schemes, including the collectivization of
> property,
> >> unlawful
> >> > usurpation of property, and incorrect characterizations
> of
> >> private
> >> > property, unless otherwise voluntarily agreed by all
> parties,
> >> are
> >> > incompatible with the philosophy of the Libertarian
> Party.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > In Liberty,
> >> >
> >> > Steven Nekhaila
> >> > Region 2 Representative
> >> > Libertarian National Committee
> >> >
> >> > Impotentes defendere libertatum non possunt
> >> > "Those without power cannot defend freedom"
> >> >
> >> > References
> >> >
> >> > 1. tel:217-412-5973
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> --
> >> In Liberty,
> >> Caryn Ann Harlos
> >> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
> Secretary
> >> - [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> >> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
> >>
> >> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> >> We defend your rights
> >> And oppose the use of force
> >> Taxation is theft
> >>
> >> References
> >>
> >> 1. mailto:[4]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> >> 2. mailto:[5]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>
> --
>
> --
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
> - [6]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>
> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
> We defend your rights
> And oppose the use of force
> Taxation is theft
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 2. http://www.odonnell2018.org/
> 3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 4. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 5. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 6. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
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