[Lnc-business] Seeking Co-Sponsors for Resolution to Re-Affirm The LP's Stance For Property Rights

Elizabeth Van Horn elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
Tue Aug 14 18:43:26 EDT 2018


Uh, it's IN the LP platform!

You made a whole email with quotes from the LP platform.  Are our 
members illiterate?!

I give our members more credit and think they're capable of 
understanding from our LP platform.  It's *why* we have one!

---
Elizabeth Van Horn


On 2018-08-14 18:36, Justin O'Donnell via Lnc-business wrote:
> How can we promote practical solutions to our ideological platform if
> we can't even agree on the fundamentals of our ideological platform?
> 
> ---
> Yours in Liberty,
> 
> Justin O'Donnell
> LNC Region 8 Representative
> LPNH Alternate- LNC Platform Committee
> Chair- LPNH Platform Committee
> Candidate for US Congress, NH-2
> www.odonnell2018.org
> 
> On 2018-08-14 18:34, Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business wrote:
>> Jeff, thank you!  Well said.  You've articulated the position of the
>> caucus I belong to.
>> -------------------
>> We even say:
>> 
>> "We celebrate our ideological diversity.
>> 
>> AS LIBERTARIANS, WE'RE NOT GOING TO AGREE ON EVERYTHING - AND THAT'S 
>> OK!
>> What we can agree on:
>> 
>> We need to elect Libertarians to state and local public office.
>> We need to promote practical solutions to our ideological platform."
>> -----------------
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> EVH
>> ---
>> Elizabeth Van Horn
>> 
>> 
>> On 2018-08-14 18:07, Jeff Lyons wrote:
>>> Good Afternoon,
>>> 
>>>      There are a bunch of different threads on this whole property
>>> rights vs. libsoc thing. I don't get where these discussions are
>>> going, I'm not going to go through it and as an Alternate my vote
>>> won't decide anything anyways.  I just think this is a completely
>>> fruitless effort, a waste of time, and of brainpower.
>>> 
>>>      Some Libertarians have good ideas, some have bad ideas.  The
>>> answer is MORE speech, more dialogue, more ideas, and the good ideas
>>> will always win eventually.  People are smart enough to decide for
>>> themselves if socialism can be voluntary or if property should be
>>> personally / privately owned.  Let them debate it all they want.  I
>>> don't think anyone who can't make a serious case for whatever their
>>> ideology is will last long before they learn something new and
>>> inevitably evolve their position.  Libertarians don't have to agree 
>>> on
>>> everything and I don't think we should bother trying to force them to
>>> get along.  The people will figure it out on their own, through their
>>> discussions.
>>> 
>>>      I respectfully disagree there is even a need for US to have this
>>> discussion and vote no on whatever the resolution is because I don't
>>> think we really need one. At all. Ever.  That's not our job.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> In Liberty,
>>> Jeff Lyons
>>> 
>>> Region 8 Alternate
>>> (Acting Region 8 Rep)
>>> 
>>> Libertarian Assoc. of MA
>>> Membership Director
>>> http://www.lpmass.org/join
>>> 
>>> Daniel Fishman for Auditor
>>> Campaign Manager
>>> http://www.AuditMassachusetts.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 2018-08-14 15:37, Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business wrote:
>>>> BS.
>>>>    (all about brevity ; )
>>>> 
>>>>    ---
>>>>    Elizabeth Van Horn
>>>> 
>>>>    On 2018-08-14 15:34, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>    The brevity caucus keeps the exegesis of our Platform out.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>    It becomes necessary to apply and explicate.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>    -Caryn Ann
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>    On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 1:29 PM Elizabeth Van Horn via 
>>>> Lnc-business
>>>>    <[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>      Then why not a resolution saying that the LNC stands in support 
>>>> of
>>>>      our
>>>>      LP platform?  Because, I think it's pretty obvious that we do.
>>>>      (Although, I know that the Radical caucus, Mises caucus, and
>>>>      libsocs,
>>>>      all have their *own* platforms.  I support our LP platform, and
>>>>      that's a
>>>>      founding point of the caucus I'm in, that we don't have a 
>>>> separate
>>>>      platform, we instead embrace the LP platform.
>>>>      Do all the board members in various caucuses want to come out 
>>>> in
>>>>      favor
>>>>      of the *LP Platform*?  I like to see that resolution.
>>>>      ---
>>>>      Elizabeth Van Horn
>>>>      On 2018-08-14 15:07, Justin O'Donnell via Lnc-business wrote:
>>>>      > This resolution is an affirmation of that platform and it's
>>>>      underlying
>>>>      > principles. It serves simply to acknowledge rhetoric contrary 
>>>> to
>>>>      our
>>>>      > platform and affirm that the Libertarian Party stands by the
>>>>      messaging
>>>>      > and platform adopted by it's delegates in convention, as 
>>>> opposed
>>>>      to
>>>>      > those who would argue otherwise. It does not purge anyone, 
>>>> but
>>>>      simply
>>>>      > distances the LP from their economic views. They are members, 
>>>> and
>>>>      many
>>>>      > will remain so, but the resolution is to affirm that their
>>>>      outspoken
>>>>      > beliefs do not represent the party as a whole. Some of these
>>>>      > individual members are even candidates in profiled races, 
>>>> where
>>>>      they
>>>>      > are espousing ideas contrary to our platform, and it is 
>>>> incumbent
>>>>      upon
>>>>      > this body to recognize that this is a risk to the integrity 
>>>> of our
>>>>      > messaging. An individual or a candidate may proclaim whatever
>>>>      platform
>>>>      > they wish, but when they claim that it is representative of
>>>>      > Libertarian Ideology when it is clearly contrary to our 
>>>> platform
>>>>      and
>>>>      > statement of principles, it requires an acknowledgement from 
>>>> the
>>>>      LNC.
>>>>      >
>>>>      > ---
>>>>      > Yours in Liberty,
>>>>      >
>>>>      > Justin O'Donnell
>>>>      > LNC Region 8 Representative
>>>>      > LPNH Alternate- LNC Platform Committee
>>>>      > Chair- LPNH Platform Committee
>>>>      > Candidate for US Congress, NH-2
>>>>      > [2]www.odonnell2018.org
>>>>      >
>>>>      > On 2018-08-14 15:01, Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>      >> We have a platform that states what we stand for, and you 
>>>> were
>>>>      the
>>>>      >>    platform committee chair for 2018.  I was on that 
>>>> committee,
>>>>      as
>>>>      >> were
>>>>      >>    several other members of this board.
>>>>      >>    Did we not do our duty?  Did we leave the platform to be
>>>>      ambiguous
>>>>      >> and
>>>>      >>    confusing?  I don't think so.
>>>>      >>    Our wonderful LP platform speaks for the LP, and tells
>>>>      prospective
>>>>      >>    members where we stand.   We educate from that document, 
>>>> and I
>>>>      know
>>>>      >>    that you understand this, as you were instrumental in 
>>>> doing
>>>>      >> platform
>>>>      >>    plank posts on social media.  You know that the platform
>>>>      speaks for
>>>>      >> us
>>>>      >>    on issues of property rights.
>>>>      >>
>>>>      >>    ---
>>>>      >>    Elizabeth Van Horn
>>>>      >>
>>>>      >>    On 2018-08-14 14:55, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>      >>
>>>>      >>    It is quite problematic that stating the Party's 
>>>> foundational
>>>>      >>    Principles is controversial or thought to need a platform
>>>>      change.
>>>>      >>
>>>>      >>
>>>>      >>
>>>>      >>    We have gone far from our roots.
>>>>      >>
>>>>      >>
>>>>      >>
>>>>      >>    -Caryn Ann
>>>>      >>
>>>>      >>
>>>>      >>
>>>>      >>    On Tue, Aug 14, 2018 at 12:51 PM Elizabeth Van Horn via
>>>>      >> Lnc-business
>>>>      >>    <[1][3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>>>      >>
>>>>      >>      I also would have supported the first effort (with my
>>>>      language
>>>>      >>      changes)
>>>>      >>      as it was a clear support of capitalism.  Too bad that
>>>>      wasn't
>>>>      >>      embraced.
>>>>      >>      On this list I've seen multiple times someone talk 
>>>> about
>>>>      past
>>>>      >>      actions as
>>>>      >>      a reason, (we denounced that, so why not this?) the 
>>>> more
>>>>      times I
>>>>      >>      see,
>>>>      >>      the more this looks like a grudge match.
>>>>      >>      As the players in this drama, and yes it's a big drama 
>>>> on
>>>>      social
>>>>      >>      media,
>>>>      >>      are ones that have had an ongoing war-of-words with the
>>>>      targets
>>>>      >> of
>>>>      >>      this
>>>>      >>      suggested resolution.  Only, some of the players also 
>>>> happen
>>>>      to
>>>>      >> be
>>>>      >>      on
>>>>      >>      the LNC, and are now using that position to escalate.
>>>>      >>      I was willing to support a resolution that embraced
>>>>      capitalism,
>>>>      >> as I
>>>>      >>      live my life as a capitalist. It is my economic system 
>>>> of
>>>>      choice,
>>>>      >>      and I
>>>>      >>      make an effort to teach this to others.
>>>>      >>      Too bad this isn't about championing the wonderful 
>>>> economic
>>>>      >> system
>>>>      >>      of
>>>>      >>      capitalism, but instead is about targeting a few noisy 
>>>> LP
>>>>      >> members.
>>>>      >>      ---
>>>>      >>      Elizabeth Van Horn
>>>>      >>      On 2018-08-14 14:26, john.phillips--- via Lnc-business
>>>>      wrote:
>>>>      >>      > This is not the same language as was presented and
>>>>      discussed
>>>>      >>      earlier.
>>>>      >>      >    Just to clarify for people who may just be 
>>>> skimming.
>>>>      >>      >    I probably would have gone along with the first.  
>>>> This
>>>>      one
>>>>      >> is
>>>>      >>      toxic
>>>>      >>      > and
>>>>      >>      >    the language clearly meant to be be a purge.
>>>>      >>      >    If it was just a supporting of property rights I 
>>>> would
>>>>      >>      absolutely
>>>>      >>      >    support it.  This is far more than that, and 
>>>> honestly
>>>>      far
>>>>      >>      exceeds
>>>>      >>      > the
>>>>      >>      >    scope of the duties of this body.  It is a direct
>>>>      change to
>>>>      >>      policy
>>>>      >>      >    seriously impacts current members and activists.
>>>>      >>      >    If you want a platform change take it to Austin. 
>>>> That
>>>>      is not
>>>>      >>      our
>>>>      >>      > job.
>>>>      >>      >    I will be voting no on this, and urge everyone 
>>>> else to
>>>>      >>      seriously
>>>>      >>      >    consider whether they support a precedent of 
>>>> purging
>>>>      groups.
>>>>      >>      Not to
>>>>      >>      >    mention how many of you during the JC discussion 
>>>> were
>>>>      >> treading
>>>>      >>      very
>>>>      >>      >    carefully about not exceeding our scope, a point 
>>>> that
>>>>      was
>>>>      >> well
>>>>      >>      taken
>>>>      >>      >    after reflection, will you be consistent here?
>>>>      >>      >    John Phillips
>>>>      >>      >    Libertarian National Committee Region 6 
>>>> Representative
>>>>      >>      >    Cell [1]217-412-5973
>>>>      >>      >
>>>>      >>      >    ------ Original message------
>>>>      >>      >    From: Steven Nekhaila via Lnc-business
>>>>      >>      >    Date: Tue, Aug 14, 2018 10:50 AM
>>>>      >>      >    To: LNC-Business List;
>>>>      >>      >    Cc: Steven Nekhaila;
>>>>      >>      >    Subject:[Lnc-business] Seeking Co-Sponsors for
>>>>      Resolution to
>>>>      >>      > Re-Affirm
>>>>      >>      >    The LP's Stance For Property Rights
>>>>      >>      > Dear Colleagues,
>>>>      >>      >
>>>>      >>      > I invite you to co-sponsor the following resolution 
>>>> which
>>>>      >> disavows
>>>>      >>      > socialist & communist policies and re-affirms the
>>>>      Libertarian
>>>>      >>      Party
>>>>      >>      > position on championing property rights.
>>>>      >>      >
>>>>      >>      > Co-Sponsors: Joshua Smith, Justin O'Donnel, and Caryn 
>>>> Ann
>>>>      >> Harlos
>>>>      >>      >
>>>>      >>      > WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party supports the free 
>>>> market
>>>>      and
>>>>      >>      therefore
>>>>      >>      > the right of privatization of property as an 
>>>> extension of
>>>>      the
>>>>      >>      > individual;
>>>>      >>      >
>>>>      >>      > WHEREAS, the Statement of Principles of The 
>>>> Libertarian
>>>>      Party
>>>>      >>      > explicitly
>>>>      >>      > supports the right to private property ownership,
>>>>      including the
>>>>      >>      right
>>>>      >>      > to
>>>>      >>      > do business utilizing that property as capital;
>>>>      >>      >
>>>>      >>      > WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party strongly supports the
>>>>      rights of
>>>>      >>      > individuals to own private property including land,
>>>>      structures,
>>>>      >>      natural
>>>>      >>      > resources and other private space through 
>>>> homesteading,
>>>>      >> purchase,
>>>>      >>      and
>>>>      >>      > other lawful libertarian means;
>>>>      >>      >
>>>>      >>      > WHEREAS, ownership of private property, including but 
>>>> not
>>>>      >> limited
>>>>      >>      to
>>>>      >>      > land and housing, does not require continual or 
>>>> personal
>>>>      use to
>>>>      >>      exist
>>>>      >>      > as
>>>>      >>      > justly owned property unless otherwise abandoned;
>>>>      >>      >
>>>>      >>      > WHEREAS, these have been part of the principles of 
>>>> the
>>>>      >> Libertarian
>>>>      >>      > Party
>>>>      >>      > since its inception;
>>>>      >>      >
>>>>      >>      > THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that socialist and 
>>>> communist
>>>>      >> property
>>>>      >>      > ownership schemes, including the collectivization of
>>>>      property,
>>>>      >>      unlawful
>>>>      >>      > usurpation of property, and incorrect 
>>>> characterizations of
>>>>      >> private
>>>>      >>      > property, unless otherwise voluntarily agreed by all
>>>>      parties,
>>>>      >> are
>>>>      >>      > incompatible with the philosophy of the Libertarian 
>>>> Party.
>>>>      >>      >
>>>>      >>      >
>>>>      >>      > In Liberty,
>>>>      >>      >
>>>>      >>      > Steven Nekhaila
>>>>      >>      > Region 2 Representative
>>>>      >>      > Libertarian National Committee
>>>>      >>      >
>>>>      >>      > Impotentes defendere libertatum non possunt
>>>>      >>      > "Those without power cannot defend freedom"
>>>>      >>      >
>>>>      >>      > References
>>>>      >>      >
>>>>      >>      >    1. tel:217-412-5973
>>>>      >>
>>>>      >>      --
>>>>      >>
>>>>      >>    --
>>>>      >>    In Liberty,
>>>>      >>    Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>      >>    Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee 
>>>> Secretary
>>>>      >>    - [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>>>>      >>    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - 
>>>> LPedia at LP.org
>>>>      >>
>>>>      >>    A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>      >>    We defend your rights
>>>>      >>    And oppose the use of force
>>>>      >>    Taxation is theft
>>>>      >>
>>>>      >> References
>>>>      >>
>>>>      >>    1. mailto:[4]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>      >>    2. mailto:[5]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>> 
>>>>      --
>>>> 
>>>>    --
>>>>    In Liberty,
>>>>    Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>    Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>>>>    - [6]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>>>>    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>>>> 
>>>>    A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>    We defend your rights
>>>>    And oppose the use of force
>>>>    Taxation is theft
>>>> 
>>>> References
>>>> 
>>>>    1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>    2. http://www.odonnell2018.org/
>>>>    3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>    4. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>    5. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>>>>    6. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org



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