[Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-22: PROPERTY RIGHTS RESOLUTION

Wed Aug 15 14:28:07 EDT 2018

*standing ovation*
John Phillips
Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
Cell 217-412-5973
------ Original message------From: Susan Hogarth via Lnc-businessDate: Wed, Aug 15, 2018 1:23 PMTo: Lnc-Business;Cc: Susan Hogarth;Subject:Re: [Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-22: PROPERTY RIGHTS RESOLUTION

  Wait. Are we voting on a resolution or on a screencap of one person’s philosophico-economic maunderings?

You’re trying to have it both ways: that the resolution just ‘supports’ what we already say and isn’t targeted at anyone, and now here that it is directly targeted at people who you don’t think understand libertarianism. (And maybe they don’t - that’s beside the point).   

 This is the core problem with this resolution: the vote is being held up as some sort of litmus test on whether LNC members are “the right sort of libertarian”. I wish I could convey how insulting and manipulative that feels.   

I support the Platform and the SoP. That’s why I am here. That’s why we are *all* here. I resent mightily the implication that if (or others) fail to support what we may think is a poorly concieved, opportunistic, and divisive resolution that we somehow have rejected capitalism apple pie and the libertarian way.   

  Susan Jane Hogarth

  Region 5 Alternate

  919-906-2106 (tel:919-906-2106)

>   
> On Aug 15, 2018 at 2:08 PM,    wrote:
>   
>   
>   
>  Because of that, I vote YES on the resolution. Having polite  
>  proponents of the opposing view explain in their own words what they  
>  are promoting under the LP banner is more eloquent than I can be.  
>  Resolution aside - does anyone here think that statement is compatible  
>  with LP principles?  
>  -Caryn Ann  
>  On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 12:06 PM Caryn Ann Harlos  
>   <[1]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>  wrote:  
>
>  The attached is what I vote no on.  
>
>  Not compatible with LP Principles.  
>
>  It is a very clear and polite statement of the ideology that is  
>  co-opting our Party.  
>
>  [cid:1653ec4b605b44f05e91]  
>
>  On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:08 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business  
>   <[2]lnc-business at hq.lp.org>  wrote:  
>
>  If this resolution merely restates the platform and statement of  
>  principles, it is redundant.  
>  If it goes beyond the platform and statement of principles, it is  
>  inappropriate.  
>  In any case, it is a divisive and distracting waste of time to argue  
>  over who is a "real libertarian."  
>  I vote NO.  
>  Yours in liberty,  
>  Nick  
>  On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 2:56 AM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business  
>   <[3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org>  wrote:  
>   >   
>   >  We have an electronic mail ballot.  
>   >   
>   >  Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by July 22, 2018 at  
>  11:59:59pm  
>   >  Pacific time.  
>   >   
>   >  Co-Sponsors: Caryn Ann Harlos, Richard Longstreth, Steven  
>  Nekhaila,  
>   >  Justin O’Donnell, Joshua Smith  
>   >   
>   >  Motion: Move to adopt the following resolution:  
>   >   
>   >  WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party supports the free market and  
>  therefore  
>   >  the right of privatization of property as an extension of the  
>   >  individual;  
>   >   
>   >  WHEREAS, the Statement of Principles of The Libertarian Party  
>   >  explicitly supports the right to private property ownership,  
>  including  
>   >  the right to do business utilizing that property as capital;  
>   >   
>   >  WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party strongly supports the rights of  
>   >  individuals to own private property including land, structures,  
>  natural  
>   >  resources and other private space through homesteading,  
>  purchase, and  
>   >  other lawful libertarian means;  
>   >   
>   >  WHEREAS, ownership of private property, including but not  
>  limited to  
>   >  land and housing, does not require continual or personal use to  
>  exist  
>   >  as justly owned property unless otherwise abandoned;  
>   >   
>   >  WHEREAS, these have been part of the principles of the  
>  Libertarian  
>   >  Party since its inception;  
>   >   
>   >  THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that socialist and communist  
>  property  
>   >  ownership schemes, including the collectivization of property,  
>  unlawful  
>   >  usurpation of property, and incorrect characterizations of  
>  private  
>   >  property, unless otherwise voluntarily agreed by all parties,  
>  are  
>   >  incompatible with the philosophy of the Libertarian Party.  
>   >   
>   >  =============================================  
>   >   
>   >  Important Bylaws note:  
>   >   
>   >  Resolutions require passage by 3/4 vote as follows:  
>   >   
>   >  Article 7:  
>   >   
>   >  ***  
>   >   
>   >  The National Committee may adopt public policy resolutions by a  
>  ¾ vote  
>   >  with previous notice or by unanimous consent without previous  
>  notice.  
>   >   
>   >  =============================================  
>   >   
>   >  You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes  
>  here:  
>   >  [1][4]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting. Votes are noted with a  
>  link to the  
>   >  actual ballot cast for verification. You can find the time that  
>  the  
>   >  manual tally was last updated at the bottom of the sheet.  
>   >   
>   >  Please notify me of any discrepancies.  
>   >  --  
>   >  In Liberty,  
>   >  Caryn Ann Harlos  
>   >  Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary  
>  -  
>   >  [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.  
>   >  Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org  
>   >  A haiku to the Statement of Principles:  
>   >  We defend your rights  
>   >  And oppose the use of force  
>   >  Taxation is theft  
>   >   
>   >  References  
>   >   
>   >  1. [5]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting  
>   >  2. mailto:[6]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org  
>
>  --  
>
>  --  
>  In Liberty,  
>  Caryn Ann Harlos  
>  Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary  
>  - [7]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.  
>
>  Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org  
>  A haiku to the Statement of Principles:  
>  We defend your rights  
>  And oppose the use of force  
>  Taxation is theft  
>
>  --  
>
>  --  
>  In Liberty,  
>  Caryn Ann Harlos  
>  Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary  
>  - [8]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.  
>  Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org  
>  A haiku to the Statement of Principles:  
>  We defend your rights  
>  And oppose the use of force  
>  Taxation is theft  
>
> References  
>
>  1. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org  
>  2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org  
>  3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org  
>  4. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting  
>  5. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting  
>  6. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org  
>  7. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org  
>  8. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org  
>
>
   Wait. Are we voting on a resolution or on a screencap of one person’s
   philosophico-economic maunderings?

   You’re trying to have it both ways: that the resolution just ‘supports’
   what we already say and isn’t targeted at anyone, and now here that it
   is directly targeted at people who you don’t think understand
   libertarianism. (And maybe they don’t - that’s beside the point).

   This is the core problem with this resolution: the vote is being held
   up as some sort of litmus test on whether LNC members are “the right
   sort of libertarian”. I wish I could convey how insulting and
   manipulative that feels.

   I support the Platform and the SoP. That’s why I am here. That’s why we
   are *all* here. I resent mightily the implication that if (or others)
   fail to support what we may think is a poorly concieved, opportunistic,
   and divisive resolution that we somehow have rejected capitalism apple
   pie and the libertarian way.

   Susan Jane Hogarth

   Region 5 Alternate

   [1]919-906-2106

   On Aug 15, 2018 at 2:08 PM, <[2]Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business>
   wrote:

    Because of that, I vote YES on the resolution.  Having polite
   proponents of the opposing view explain in their own words what they
   are promoting under the LP banner is more eloquent than I can be.
   Resolution aside - does anyone here think that statement is compatible
   with LP principles?
   -Caryn Ann
   On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 12:06 PM Caryn Ann Harlos
   <[1]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:

   The attached is what I vote no on.

   Not compatible with LP Principles.

   It is a very clear and polite statement of the ideology that is
   co-opting our Party.

   [cid:1653ec4b605b44f05e91]

   On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:08 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business
   <[2]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:

     If this resolution merely restates the platform and statement of
     principles, it is redundant.
     If it goes beyond the platform and statement of principles, it is
     inappropriate.
     In any case, it is a divisive and distracting waste of time to argue
     over who is a "real libertarian."
     I vote NO.
     Yours in liberty,
     Nick
     On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 2:56 AM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
     <[3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
     >
     >    We have an electronic mail ballot.
     >
     >    Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by July 22, 2018 at
     11:59:59pm
     >    Pacific time.
     >
     >    Co-Sponsors:  Caryn Ann Harlos, Richard Longstreth, Steven
     Nekhaila,
     >    Justin O’Donnell, Joshua Smith
     >
     >    Motion: Move to adopt the following resolution:
     >
     >    WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party supports the free market and
     therefore
     >    the right of privatization of property as an extension of the
     >    individual;
     >
     >    WHEREAS, the Statement of Principles of The Libertarian Party
     >    explicitly supports the right to private property ownership,
     including
     >    the right to do business utilizing that property as capital;
     >
     >    WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party strongly supports the rights of
     >    individuals to own private property including land, structures,
     natural
     >    resources and other private space through homesteading,
     purchase, and
     >    other lawful libertarian means;
     >
     >    WHEREAS, ownership of private property, including but not
     limited to
     >    land and housing, does not require continual or personal use to
     exist
     >    as justly owned property unless otherwise abandoned;
     >
     >    WHEREAS, these have been part of the principles of the
     Libertarian
     >    Party since its inception;
     >
     >    THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that socialist and communist
     property
     >    ownership schemes, including the collectivization of property,
     unlawful
     >    usurpation of property, and incorrect characterizations of
     private
     >    property, unless otherwise voluntarily agreed by all parties,
     are
     >    incompatible with the philosophy of the Libertarian Party.
     >
     >    =============================================
     >
     >    Important Bylaws note:
     >
     >    Resolutions require passage by 3/4 vote as follows:
     >
     >    Article 7:
     >
     >    ***
     >
     >    The National Committee may adopt public policy resolutions by a
     ¾ vote
     >    with previous notice or by unanimous consent without previous
     notice.
     >
     >    =============================================
     >
     >    You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes
     here:
     >    [1][4]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting.  Votes are noted with a
     link to the
     >    actual ballot cast for verification. You can find the time that
     the
     >    manual tally was last updated at the bottom of the sheet.
     >
     >    Please notify me of any discrepancies.
     >    --
     >    In Liberty,
     >    Caryn Ann Harlos
     >    Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
     -
     >    [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
     >    Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
     >    A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
     >    We defend your rights
     >    And oppose the use of force
     >    Taxation is theft
     >
     > References
     >
     >    1. [5]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
     >    2. mailto:[6]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org

     --

   --
   In Liberty,
   Caryn Ann Harlos
   Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
   - [7]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.

   Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
   A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
   We defend your rights
   And oppose the use of force
   Taxation is theft

   --

   --
   In Liberty,
   Caryn Ann Harlos
   Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
   - [8]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
   Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
   A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
   We defend your rights
   And oppose the use of force
   Taxation is theft

References

   1. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
   2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   4. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
   5. https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
   6. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
   7. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
   8. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org

References

   1. tel:919-906-2106
   2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
-------------- next part --------------
   *standing ovation*
   John Phillips
   Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
   Cell [1]217-412-5973

   ------ Original message------
   From: Susan Hogarth via Lnc-business
   Date: Wed, Aug 15, 2018 1:23 PM
   To: Lnc-Business;
   Cc: Susan Hogarth;
   Subject:Re: [Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2018-22: PROPERTY RIGHTS
   RESOLUTION

  Wait. Are we voting on a resolution or on a screencap of one person’s philosop
hico-economic maunderings?

You’re trying to have it both ways: that the resolution just ‘supports’ what we
already say and isn’t targeted at anyone, and now here that it is directly targe
ted at people who you don’t think understand libertarianism. (And maybe they don
’t - that’s beside the point).

 This is the core problem with this resolution: the vote is being held up as som
e sort of litmus test on whether LNC members are “the right sort of libertarian
”. I wish I could convey how insulting and manipulative that feels.

I support the Platform and the SoP. That’s why I am here. That’s why we are *all
* here. I resent mightily the implication that if (or others) fail to support wh
at we may think is a poorly concieved, opportunistic, and divisive resolution th
at we somehow have rejected capitalism apple pie and the libertarian way.

  Susan Jane Hogarth

  Region 5 Alternate

  [2]919-906-2106 (tel:[3]919-906-2106)

>
> On Aug 15, 2018 at 2:08 PM,    wrote:
>
>
>
>  Because of that, I vote YES on the resolution. Having polite
>  proponents of the opposing view explain in their own words what they
>  are promoting under the LP banner is more eloquent than I can be.
>  Resolution aside - does anyone here think that statement is compatible
>  with LP principles?
>  -Caryn Ann
>  On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 12:06 PM Caryn Ann Harlos
>   <[1[4]]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>  wrote:
>
>  The attached is what I vote no on.
>
>  Not compatible with LP Principles.
>
>  It is a very clear and polite statement of the ideology that is
>  co-opting our Party.
>
>  [cid:1653ec4b605b44f05e91]
>
>  On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:08 AM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business
>   <[2[5]]lnc-business at hq.lp.org>  wrote:
>
>  If this resolution merely restates the platform and statement of
>  principles, it is redundant.
>  If it goes beyond the platform and statement of principles, it is
>  inappropriate.
>  In any case, it is a divisive and distracting waste of time to argue
>  over who is a "real libertarian."
>  I vote NO.
>  Yours in liberty,
>  Nick
>  On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 2:56 AM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
>   <[3[6]]lnc-business at hq.lp.org>  wrote:
>   >
>   >  We have an electronic mail ballot.
>   >
>   >  Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by July 22, 2018 at
>  11:59:59pm
>   >  Pacific time.
>   >
>   >  Co-Sponsors: Caryn Ann Harlos, Richard Longstreth, Steven
>  Nekhaila,
>   >  Justin O’Donnell, Joshua Smith
>   >
>   >  Motion: Move to adopt the following resolution:
>   >
>   >  WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party supports the free market and
>  therefore
>   >  the right of privatization of property as an extension of the
>   >  individual;
>   >
>   >  WHEREAS, the Statement of Principles of The Libertarian Party
>   >  explicitly supports the right to private property ownership,
>  including
>   >  the right to do business utilizing that property as capital;
>   >
>   >  WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party strongly supports the rights of
>   >  individuals to own private property including land, structures,
>  natural
>   >  resources and other private space through homesteading,
>  purchase, and
>   >  other lawful libertarian means;
>   >
>   >  WHEREAS, ownership of private property, including but not
>  limited to
>   >  land and housing, does not require continual or personal use to
>  exist
>   >  as justly owned property unless otherwise abandoned;
>   >
>   >  WHEREAS, these have been part of the principles of the
>  Libertarian
>   >  Party since its inception;
>   >
>   >  THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that socialist and communist
>  property
>   >  ownership schemes, including the collectivization of property,
>  unlawful
>   >  usurpation of property, and incorrect characterizations of
>  private
>   >  property, unless otherwise voluntarily agreed by all parties,
>  are
>   >  incompatible with the philosophy of the Libertarian Party.
>   >
>   >  =============================================
>   >
>   >  Important Bylaws note:
>   >
>   >  Resolutions require passage by 3/4 vote as follows:
>   >
>   >  Article 7:
>   >
>   >  ***
>   >
>   >  The National Committee may adopt public policy resolutions by a
>  ¾ vote
>   >  with previous notice or by unanimous consent without previous
>  notice.
>   >
>   >  =============================================
>   >
>   >  You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes
>  here:
>   >  [1][4][7]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting. Votes are noted with a
>  link to the
>   >  actual ballot cast for verification. You can find the time that
>  the
>   >  manual tally was last updated at the bottom of the sheet.
>   >
>   >  Please notify me of any discrepancies.
>   >  --
>   >  In Liberty,
>   >  Caryn Ann Harlos
>   >  Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>  -
>   >  [2][8]Caryn.Ann.[9] Harlos at LP.org or[10] Secretary at LP.org.
>   >  Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[11] LPedia at LP.org
>   >  A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>   >  We defend your rights
>   >  And oppose the use of force
>   >  Taxation is theft
>   >
>   >  References
>   >
>   >  1. [5][12]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>   >  2. mailto:[6[13]]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>
>  --
>
>  --
>  In Liberty,
>  Caryn Ann Harlos
>  Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>  - [7][14]Caryn.Ann.[15] Harlos at LP.org or[16] Secretary at LP.org.
>
>  Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[17] LPedia at LP.org
>  A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>  We defend your rights
>  And oppose the use of force
>  Taxation is theft
>
>  --
>
>  --
>  In Liberty,
>  Caryn Ann Harlos
>  Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>  - [8][18]Caryn.Ann.[19] Harlos at LP.org or[20] Secretary at LP.org.
>  Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -[21] LPedia at LP.org
>  A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>  We defend your rights
>  And oppose the use of force
>  Taxation is theft
>
> References
>
>  1. mailto[22]:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
>  2. mailto[23]:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>  3. mailto[24]:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>  4. [25]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>  5. [26]https://tinyurl.com/lncvoting
>  6. mailto[27]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>  7. mailto[28]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>  8. mailto[29]:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>
>
   Wait. Are we voting on a resolution or on a screencap of one person’s
   philosophico-economic maunderings?