[Lnc-business] Discussion: feedback and moving forward.
Elizabeth Van Horn
elizabeth.vanhorn at lp.org
Fri Aug 17 07:04:54 EDT 2018
Richard, ...Caryn Ann calls LNC Executive Committee meetings "secret"
even though they're announced and not secret, so I sure as hell can use
the word secrete for a group that makes it so no one but those in the
group can see what's written in there.
I didn't elect to join, Alex added me. That's how FB works for groups,
if someone is on a friend list, the "invite" is a force add. One has to
actively leave to not be part of it. Also, don't tell me what to do, I
didn't start a damn secret group where there's bad-mouthing of LP
members by LNC board members. Nor, was I the one in there talking about
members where they can't see what's said.
As for not getting anything done...LOL. Unbelievable, and if you can't
see the problem, then that's on you.
As for disgusted and in disbelief....right back at you.
What's really sad is that you're reacting this way, due to me saying
what I saw in that group. Transparency! The cry of the so many...ha!
---
Elizabeth Van Horn
On 2018-08-17 05:44, Richard Longstreth wrote:
> It is not a fair assessment. Business will stay in business. If you don't want to contribute to resolutions, fine. Don't. But don't choose to not participate and then come to business and claim we are operating in secret by actually doing something outside of bashing each other on email. For everything good in the world, what the actual hell is wrong with the makeup of the LNC. Many of you seem more concerned about building your own totem and standing for some irrelevant 'principle' than on actually working as a body to advance our party. You want transparency? Take screen shots or find a php forum or something else that provides that transparency and I'll go there. I can't believe its been nearly two months and we have accomplished nearly nothing except moving some budget lines around. Excuse the lack of professionalism, but what the actual fuck?!
>
> I take off my LNC hat at the moment to say shame on the entire LNC for not figuring out how to work together as a team for our membership, candidates, and adavncement of the party. Every good idea, collaborating on Facebook prior to business discussions for example, is met with hostility and accusations of back room secret dealls. It is disgusting. If this is what the party is at the highest level, no wonder we have issues going mainstream. I am seriously disgusted and in disbelief.
>
> Richard
>
> On Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 03:39 Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business <lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
>> It's absolutely an accurate assessment of what I saw in that group.
>> I just wonder if the comments in there will be scrubbed before it
>> becomes an open group.
>>
>> ---
>> Elizabeth Van Horn
>>
>> On 2018-08-17 04:14, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>
>> Elizabeth, that is not a fair assessment. I prefer talking about
>> options here on the email list but then we get treated to sarcastic
>> comments about numbers of emails. Thus, I invited people to screenshot
>> the discussions, figure out a way to have them openly viewable, or use
>> another method such as a google drive. There is nothing I said there
>> that I want to be hidden. I think an "open group" with limited posting
>> abilities might accomplish that - Alex you might want to look into
>> that. I am not at all keen on "secret" discussions.
>>
>> And it is not a bash anyone group unless the posts that say - John
>> Phillips has been making are a bash LNC members posts. No one - not
>> Nick - not me - not anyone is excluded from criticism. People were
>> stating their opinions and none of them were things that have not been
>> said openly. My sole comment on that was that I am disappointed in
>> Nick on this issue. That is no secret - I told him that openly. I
>> also did not see any LP members being bashed - I did see views being
>> opposed.
>>
>> That being said, no one should have added you without your consent. I
>> was "invited" and not added. I almost didn't accept the invitation but
>> then decided if Alex wanted to start a good faith discussion, I would
>> like to be involved.
>>
>> I encourage Alex to find a way to make this viewable.
>>
>> Have we ever considered a bbphp or vbulletin forum for workshopping?
>>
>> -Caryn Ann
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 11:54 PM, Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business
>> <[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>
>> Alex, I was added to this "workshopping" group without being
>> consulted, and this was after I had specifically written to you to
>> say that I wasn't interested in working on resolutions.
>> But, since I was added to that group, I looked around before leaving
>> it, and am I'm disappointed to see that the group isn't just a
>> working group for resolutions. But, is also a bad-mouthing LP
>> members and Nick Sarwark group.
>> Also, John Phillips, a closed group doesn't mean people outside the
>> group can read what's written there. For that to happen it needs to
>> be an "open group".
>> It's very disappointing to see that our LNC members, some of which
>> supposedly champion transparency, don't want LP members to see
>> what's being written in an LNC group where resolutions are being
>> written, and LP members being discussed. So, there's a "secret"
>> group to keep on with the antics. I won't be party to it.
>> ---
>> Elizabeth Van Horn
>>
>> On 2018-08-16 12:51, Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair) via Lnc-business
>> wrote:
>>
>> I've created this FB group only for us for workshopping, please join
>> if
>> you'd like help on this and other motions in this manner.
>> [1][2]https://m.facebook.com/groups/306874133221625
>> Alex Merced
>> Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
>> On Aug 16, 2018, at 12:30 PM, Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business
>> <[2][3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> Let's do it
>> On Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 00:49 Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
>> <[1][3][4]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> I am amenable to refining the current one to address
>> issues such
>> as
>> brought up by Craig Bowden.
>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:10 PM Alex Merced (LNC Vice
>> Chair)
>> via
>> Lnc-business <[1][2][4][5]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> Dear LNC,
>> As the vote for the motion on the table continues there
>> is
>> passionate voices on all sides. While this particular
>> motion
>> may
>> fail the passions of those on both sides will not. I
>> want to
>> align
>> focus on our candidates in these last few months of the
>> election as
>> much as possible but I do think from the response, that
>> getting
>> some
>> statement passed will be necessary to put this behind
>> us.
>> What I invite is a discussion on the different wordings
>> that
>> have
>> been seen so far. What can be done to make a statement
>> we can
>> proclaim as a unifying affirmation of principles. I
>> think
>> everyone
>> in the body takes a moment to participate in this
>> discussion
>> we
>> can
>> develop something that we can be proud of that will move
>> this
>> moment
>> forward.
>> I know many of you have a lot on your plate, I know many
>> of
>> you
>> are
>> frustrated. Let's take moment see how we can
>> I think a good start is with Elizabeths Revision to the
>> Kibler
>> wording if she can post that in a response. Please bear
>> with
>> me on
>> this I'm confident we can find a way to satisfy the
>> interest
>> of
>> all
>> those involved with something they can point to and be
>> proud
>> of
>> and
>> campaign on and then put our 100% focus on the ground
>> work of
>> getting our candidates elected.
>> Alex Merced
>> Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
>> --
>> --
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
>> Secretary
>> - [2]Caryn.Ann. [5]Harlos at LP.org or [6]Secretary at LP.org.
>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -
>> [7]LPedia at LP.org
>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> We defend your rights
>> And oppose the use of force
>> Taxation is theft
>> References
>> 1. mailto:[3][8][6]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 2. mailto:[4][9]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> --
>> Richard Longstreth
>> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, KS, MT, NM, OR, HI, UT,
>> WA, WY)
>> Libertarian National Committee
>> [5][10][7]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 931.538.9300
>> References
>> 1. [11]mailto:[8]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 2. [12]mailto:[9]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 3. [13]mailto:[10]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 4. [14]mailto:[11]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> 5. [15]mailto:[12]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> References
>> 1. [13]https://m.facebook.com/groups/306874133221625
>> 2. mailto:[14]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 3. mailto:[15]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 4. mailto:[16]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 5. mailto:[17]Harlos at LP.org
>> 6. mailto:[18]Secretary at LP.org
>> 7. mailto:[19]LPedia at LP.org
>> 8. mailto:[20]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 9. mailto:[21]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> 10. mailto:[22]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 11. mailto:[23]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 12. mailto:[24]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 13. mailto:[25]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 14. mailto:[26]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> 15. mailto:[27]richard.longstreth at lp.org
>>
>> --
>> --
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>> - [28]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>>
>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>> We defend your rights
>> And oppose the use of force
>> Taxation is theft
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 2. https://m.facebook.com/groups/306874133221625
>> 3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 4. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 5. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 6. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 7. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 8. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 9. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 10. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 11. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> 12. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 13. https://m.facebook.com/groups/306874133221625
>> 14. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 15. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 16. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 17. mailto:Harlos at LP.org
>> 18. mailto:Secretary at LP.org
>> 19. mailto:LPedia at LP.org
>> 20. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 21. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> 22. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 23. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 24. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 25. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 26. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> 27. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> 28. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> --
>
> Richard Longstreth
> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, KS, MT, NM, OR, HI, UT, WA, WY)
> Libertarian National Committee
> richard.longstreth at lp.org
> 931.538.9300
-------------- next part --------------
Richard, ...Caryn Ann calls LNC Executive Committee meetings "secret"
even though they're announced and not secret, so I sure as hell can use
the word secrete for a group that makes it so no one but those in the
group can see what's written in there.
I didn't elect to join, Alex added me. That's how FB works for groups,
if someone is on a friend list, the "invite" is a force add. One has
to actively leave to not be part of it. Also, don't tell me what to
do, I didn't start a damn secret group where there's bad-mouthing of LP
members by LNC board members. Nor, was I the one in there talking
about members where they can't see what's said.
As for not getting anything done...LOL. Unbelievable, and if you can't
see the problem, then that's on you.
As for disgusted and in disbelief....right back at you.
What's really sad is that you're reacting this way, due to me saying
what I saw in that group. Transparency! The cry of the so many...ha!
---
Elizabeth Van Horn
On 2018-08-17 05:44, Richard Longstreth wrote:
It is not a fair assessment. Business will stay in business. If you
don't want to contribute to resolutions, fine. Don't. But don't
choose to not participate and then come to business and claim we are
operating in secret by actually doing something outside of bashing
each other on email. For everything good in the world, what the
actual hell is wrong with the makeup of the LNC. Many of you seem
more concerned about building your own totem and standing for some
irrelevant 'principle' than on actually working as a body to advance
our party. You want transparency? Take screen shots or find a php
forum or something else that provides that transparency and I'll go
there. I can't believe its been nearly two months and we have
accomplished nearly nothing except moving some budget lines around.
Excuse the lack of professionalism, but what the actual fuck?!
I take off my LNC hat at the moment to say shame on the entire LNC for
not figuring out how to work together as a team for our membership,
candidates, and adavncement of the party. Every good idea,
collaborating on Facebook prior to business discussions for example, is
met with hostility and accusations of back room secret dealls. It is
disgusting. If this is what the party is at the highest level, no
wonder we have issues going mainstream. I am seriously disgusted and in
disbelief.
Richard
On Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 03:39 Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business
<[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
It's absolutely an accurate assessment of what I saw in that
group.
I just wonder if the comments in there will be scrubbed before it
becomes an open group.
---
Elizabeth Van Horn
On 2018-08-17 04:14, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
Elizabeth, that is not a fair assessment. I prefer talking about
options here on the email list but then we get treated to
sarcastic
comments about numbers of emails. Thus, I invited people to
screenshot
the discussions, figure out a way to have them openly viewable,
or use
another method such as a google drive. There is nothing I said
there
that I want to be hidden. I think an "open group" with limited
posting
abilities might accomplish that - Alex you might want to look
into
that. I am not at all keen on "secret" discussions.
And it is not a bash anyone group unless the posts that say -
John
Phillips has been making are a bash LNC members posts. No one -
not
Nick - not me - not anyone is excluded from criticism. People
were
stating their opinions and none of them were things that have not
been
said openly. My sole comment on that was that I am disappointed
in
Nick on this issue. That is no secret - I told him that openly.
I
also did not see any LP members being bashed - I did see views
being
opposed.
That being said, no one should have added you without your
consent. I
was "invited" and not added. I almost didn't accept the
invitation but
then decided if Alex wanted to start a good faith discussion, I
would
like to be involved.
I encourage Alex to find a way to make this viewable.
Have we ever considered a bbphp or vbulletin forum for
workshopping?
-Caryn Ann
On Thu, Aug 16, 2018 at 11:54 PM, Elizabeth Van Horn via
Lnc-business
<[1][2]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
Alex, I was added to this "workshopping" group without being
consulted, and this was after I had specifically written to you
to
say that I wasn't interested in working on resolutions.
But, since I was added to that group, I looked around before
leaving
it, and am I'm disappointed to see that the group isn't just a
working group for resolutions. But, is also a bad-mouthing LP
members and Nick Sarwark group.
Also, John Phillips, a closed group doesn't mean people outside
the
group can read what's written there. For that to happen it
needs to
be an "open group".
It's very disappointing to see that our LNC members, some of
which
supposedly champion transparency, don't want LP members to see
what's being written in an LNC group where resolutions are
being
written, and LP members being discussed. So, there's a
"secret"
group to keep on with the antics. I won't be party to it.
---
Elizabeth Van Horn
On 2018-08-16 12:51, Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair) via
Lnc-business
wrote:
I've created this FB group only for us for workshopping, please
join
if
you'd like help on this and other motions in this manner.
[1][2][3]https://m.facebook.com/groups/306874133221625
Alex Merced
Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
On Aug 16, 2018, at 12:30 PM, Richard Longstreth via
Lnc-business
<[2][3][4]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
Let's do it
On Thu, Aug 16, 2018, 00:49 Caryn Ann Harlos via
Lnc-business
<[1][3][4][5]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
I am amenable to refining the current one to address
issues such
as
brought up by Craig Bowden.
On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 11:10 PM Alex Merced (LNC
Vice
Chair)
via
Lnc-business <[1][2][4][5][6]lnc-business at hq.lp.org>
wrote:
Dear LNC,
As the vote for the motion on the table continues
there
is
passionate voices on all sides. While this
particular
motion
may
fail the passions of those on both sides will not.
I
want to
align
focus on our candidates in these last few months of
the
election as
much as possible but I do think from the response,
that
getting
some
statement passed will be necessary to put this
behind
us.
What I invite is a discussion on the different
wordings
that
have
been seen so far. What can be done to make a
statement
we can
proclaim as a unifying affirmation of principles. I
think
everyone
in the body takes a moment to participate in this
discussion
we
can
develop something that we can be proud of that will
move
this
moment
forward.
I know many of you have a lot on your plate, I know
many
of
you
are
frustrated. Let's take moment see how we can
I think a good start is with Elizabeths Revision to
the
Kibler
wording if she can post that in a response. Please
bear
with
me on
this I'm confident we can find a way to satisfy the
interest
of
all
those involved with something they can point to and
be
proud
of
and
campaign on and then put our 100% focus on the
ground
work of
getting our candidates elected.
Alex Merced
Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
--
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
Secretary
- [2]Caryn.Ann. [5]Harlos at LP.org or
[6]Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee -
[7]LPedia at LP.org
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
We defend your rights
And oppose the use of force
Taxation is theft
References
1. mailto:[3][8][6][7]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
2. mailto:[4][9]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
--
Richard Longstreth
Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, KS, MT, NM, OR, HI,
UT,
WA, WY)
Libertarian National Committee
[5][10][7][8]richard.longstreth at lp.org
931.538.9300
References
1. [11]mailto:[8][9]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
2. [12]mailto:[9][10]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
3. [13]mailto:[10][11]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
4. [14]mailto:[11]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
5. [15]mailto:[12][12]richard.longstreth at lp.org
References
1. [13][13]https://m.facebook.com/groups/306874133221625
2. mailto:[14][14]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
3. mailto:[15][15]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
4. mailto:[16][16]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
5. mailto:[17]Harlos at LP.org
6. mailto:[18]Secretary at LP.org
7. mailto:[19]LPedia at LP.org
8. mailto:[20][17]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
9. mailto:[21]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
10. mailto:[22][18]richard.longstreth at lp.org
11. mailto:[23][19]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
12. mailto:[24][20]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
13. mailto:[25][21]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
14. mailto:[26]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
15. mailto:[27][22]richard.longstreth at lp.org
--
--
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
- [28]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
We defend your rights
And oppose the use of force
Taxation is theft
References
1. mailto:[23]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
2. [24]https://m.facebook.com/groups/306874133221625
3. mailto:[25]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
4. mailto:[26]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
5. mailto:[27]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
6. mailto:[28]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
7. mailto:[29]richard.longstreth at lp.org
8. mailto:[30]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
9. mailto:[31]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
10. mailto:[32]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
11. mailto:[33]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
12. mailto:[34]richard.longstreth at lp.org
13. [35]https://m.facebook.com/groups/306874133221625
14. mailto:[36]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
15. mailto:[37]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
16. mailto:[38]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
17. mailto:[39]Harlos at LP.org
18. mailto:[40]Secretary at LP.org
19. mailto:[41]LPedia at LP.org
20. mailto:[42]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
21. mailto:[43]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
22. mailto:[44]richard.longstreth at lp.org
23. mailto:[45]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
24. mailto:[46]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
25. mailto:[47]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
26. mailto:[48]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
27. mailto:[49]richard.longstreth at lp.org
28. mailto:[50]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
--
Richard Longstreth
Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, KS, MT, NM, OR, HI, UT, WA, WY)
Libertarian National Committee
[51]richard.longstreth at lp.org
931.538.9300
References
1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
3. https://m.facebook.com/groups/306874133221625
4. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
5. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
6. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
7. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
8. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
9. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
10. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
11. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
12. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
13. https://m.facebook.com/groups/306874133221625
14. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
15. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
16. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
17. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
18. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
19. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
20. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
21. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
22. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
23. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
24. https://m.facebook.com/groups/306874133221625
25. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
26. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
27. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
28. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
29. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
30. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
31. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
32. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
33. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
34. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
35. https://m.facebook.com/groups/306874133221625
36. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
37. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
38. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
39. mailto:Harlos at LP.org
40. mailto:Secretary at LP.org
41. mailto:LPedia at LP.org
42. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
43. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
44. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
45. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
46. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
47. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
48. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
49. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
50. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
51. mailto:richard.longstreth at lp.org
More information about the Lnc-business
mailing list