[Lnc-business] On the subject of minutes
Caryn Ann Harlos
caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
Sat Oct 20 03:45:25 EDT 2018
PS: I interpret that final part as referring to conventions which is the
subject immediately proceedings.
In any event, the transparency and historical issues not addressed.
On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 1:39 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
wrote:
> No that was not an ”interesting edit” which is an interesting way of
> according me of deception.
>
>
> The substitution of the word minutes for proceedings was inadvertent as
> this paragraph in a section called MINUTES. I encourage everyone to go
> look for themselves. The ellipses is omitting one parenthetical comment
> noting that sometimes the meeting is called proceedings instead of meeting
> BUT IT IS THE SAME THING, in supplementary commentary on RONR the reason
> is explained - it’s often used in legislative bodies BUT NOT exclusively.
>
> This IS ABOUT MINUTES as it is in the section about minutes.
>
> But awesome example of the fetishizing of RONR - the spirit of that
> paragraph and our commitment to transparency match this example perfectly.
>
> When I get home I will photograph the pages in order to show you are
> absolutely incorrect that the parenthetical comment meant it was NOT
> minutes only that they CAN BE CALLED something different.
>
> What’s interesting is the aversion to providing necessary detail for
> members to know what is going on.
>
> -Caryn Ann
>
> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:29 PM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business <
> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
>> Well, that was an interesting edit of RONR. Please note that the
>> actual title of that section is "Publication of an Assembly's
>> Proceedings", but your version has been rewritten to say "Publication
>> of an Assembly's Minutes".
>> The full quote goes on to note quite clearly that such a publication is
>> NOT the minutes, but something different, but you converted that
>> portion to an elipsis. The final sentence of the full quote
>> summarizes, "Any such record or transcript of the proceedings prepared
>> for publication, however, does not take the place of the minutes, and
>> it is the minutes which comprise the official record of the assembly's
>> proceedings."
>> Here's the full text:
>> "PUBLICATION OF AN ASSEMBLY'S PROCEEDINGS. Sometimes a society wishes
>> to have a full record of its proceedings made available to the public,
>> and when such a record of the proceedings is to be published (in which
>> case it is often called "proceedings," "transactions," or the like), it
>> frequently contains, in addition to the information described above for
>> inclusion in the minutes, a list of the speakers on each side of every
>> question, with an abstract or the text of each address. In such cases
>> the secretary should have an assistant. When it is desired, as in some
>> conventions, to publish the proceedings in full, the secretary's
>> assistant should be a stenographic reporter or recording technician.
>> The presiding officer should then take particular care that everyone to
>> whom he assigns the floor is fully identified. Under these conditions
>> it is usually necessary to require members to use a public address
>> system. Reports of committees should be printed exactly as submitted,
>> the record showing what action was taken by the assembly in regard to
>> them; or they can be printed with all additions in italics and parts
>> struck out enclosed in brackets, in which case a note to that effect
>> should precede the report or resolution. Any such record or transcript
>> of the proceedings prepared for publication, however, does not take the
>> place of the minutes, and it is the minutes which comprise the official
>> record of the assembly's proceedings."
>> -Alicia
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 8:12 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
>> <[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>
>> As mentioned numerous times by me in the past, past LNC minutes
>> have
>> often contained MUCH more information than I do and than the
>> previous
>> successors.
>> I am opening up this discussion before considering a policy
>> manual
>> change to include more as I actually think (and not my mere
>> opinion)
>> that both RONR and our commitment to transparency require (or
>> least
>> strong lean towards) this.
>> First my justification from RONR though I think our fixation with
>> every
>> jot and tittle that doesn't affect rights is downright
>> obsessively
>> unhealthy (and when I say "our" I mean the Libertarian Party as a
>> whole
>> - and I am not the only one who has made this observation):
>> RONR p475:
>> PUBLICATION OF AN ASSEMBLY'S MINUTES:
>> Sometimes a society wishes to have a full record of its
>> proceeding
>> available to the public, and when such a record of the proceeding
>> is to
>> be published... it frequently contains, in addition to the
>> information
>> described above for inclusion in the minutes, a list of the
>> speakers on
>> each side of the question, with an abstract or text of each
>> address.
>> In such cases the secretary should have an assistant.
>> Transparency:
>> We do in fact publish our minutes so that the membership can be
>> engaged, informed, and interested in accountability. I am often
>> asked
>> what were the arguments against such and such, and it is not
>> reasonable
>> to tell the members to go hunt down a video when in fact the
>> abstract
>> may satisfy them.
>> --
>> In Liberty,
>> [uc?id=1DeRjq-L8dvRZabgEG94VkkUvjoHatcfP&export=download]
>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
>> - [1]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>> Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page
>> at [2][2]facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
>>
>> ====================================================================
>> ===
>> ==
>> Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
>> Re-Legalize
>> All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All
>> Gun
>> Laws * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish
>> The
>> Fed * End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and
>> Repeal
>> the Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure *
>> Free-market
>> Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools
>> To
>> The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation *
>> VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or [3][3]http://www.LP.org
>>
>> ====================================================================
>> ===
>> ==
>> References
>> 1. mailto:[4]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> 2. [5]http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
>> 3. [6]http://www.lp.org/
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> 2. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
>> 3. http://www.LP.org/
>> 4. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>> 5. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
>> 6. http://www.lp.org/
>>
> --
>
> * In Liberty,*
>
> *Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *- Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
> *Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
> Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
> facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
>
> =========================================================================
> Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize All
> Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun Laws *
> Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed * End
> Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the Income Tax
> * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency Services
> * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private Sector *
> Eliminate Regulation *
>
> *VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org <http://www.lp.org/>*
> =========================================================================
>
--
* In Liberty,*
*Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *- Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
*Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
=========================================================================
Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize All
Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun Laws *
Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed * End
Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the Income Tax
* Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency Services
* Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private Sector *
Eliminate Regulation *
*VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org <http://www.lp.org/>*
=========================================================================
-------------- next part --------------
PS: I interpret that final part as referring to conventions which is
the subject immediately proceedings.
In any event, the transparency and historical issues not addressed.
On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 1:39 AM Caryn Ann Harlos
<[1]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
No that was not an ”interesting edit” which is an interesting way of
according me of deception.
The substitution of the word minutes for proceedings was inadvertent as
this paragraph in a section called MINUTES. I encourage everyone to go
look for themselves. The ellipses is omitting one parenthetical
comment noting that sometimes the meeting is called proceedings instead
of meeting BUT IT IS THE SAME THING, in supplementary commentary on
RONR the reason is explained - it’s often used in legislative bodies
BUT NOT exclusively.
This IS ABOUT MINUTES as it is in the section about minutes.
But awesome example of the fetishizing of RONR - the spirit of that
paragraph and our commitment to transparency match this example
perfectly.
When I get home I will photograph the pages in order to show you are
absolutely incorrect that the parenthetical comment meant it was NOT
minutes only that they CAN BE CALLED something different.
What’s interesting is the aversion to providing necessary detail for
members to know what is going on.
-Caryn Ann
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 11:29 PM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business
<[2]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
Well, that was an interesting edit of RONR. Please note that the
actual title of that section is "Publication of an Assembly's
Proceedings", but your version has been rewritten to say
"Publication
of an Assembly's Minutes".
The full quote goes on to note quite clearly that such a
publication is
NOT the minutes, but something different, but you converted that
portion to an elipsis. The final sentence of the full quote
summarizes, "Any such record or transcript of the proceedings
prepared
for publication, however, does not take the place of the minutes,
and
it is the minutes which comprise the official record of the
assembly's
proceedings."
Here's the full text:
"PUBLICATION OF AN ASSEMBLY'S PROCEEDINGS. Sometimes a society
wishes
to have a full record of its proceedings made available to the
public,
and when such a record of the proceedings is to be published (in
which
case it is often called "proceedings," "transactions," or the
like), it
frequently contains, in addition to the information described
above for
inclusion in the minutes, a list of the speakers on each side of
every
question, with an abstract or the text of each address. In such
cases
the secretary should have an assistant. When it is desired, as in
some
conventions, to publish the proceedings in full, the secretary's
assistant should be a stenographic reporter or recording
technician.
The presiding officer should then take particular care that
everyone to
whom he assigns the floor is fully identified. Under these
conditions
it is usually necessary to require members to use a public
address
system. Reports of committees should be printed exactly as
submitted,
the record showing what action was taken by the assembly in
regard to
them; or they can be printed with all additions in italics and
parts
struck out enclosed in brackets, in which case a note to that
effect
should precede the report or resolution. Any such record or
transcript
of the proceedings prepared for publication, however, does not
take the
place of the minutes, and it is the minutes which comprise the
official
record of the assembly's proceedings."
-Alicia
On Fri, Oct 19, 2018 at 8:12 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
<[1][3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
As mentioned numerous times by me in the past, past LNC
minutes
have
often contained MUCH more information than I do and than the
previous
successors.
I am opening up this discussion before considering a policy
manual
change to include more as I actually think (and not my mere
opinion)
that both RONR and our commitment to transparency require
(or
least
strong lean towards) this.
First my justification from RONR though I think our fixation
with
every
jot and tittle that doesn't affect rights is downright
obsessively
unhealthy (and when I say "our" I mean the Libertarian Party
as a
whole
- and I am not the only one who has made this observation):
RONR p475:
PUBLICATION OF AN ASSEMBLY'S MINUTES:
Sometimes a society wishes to have a full record of its
proceeding
available to the public, and when such a record of the
proceeding
is to
be published... it frequently contains, in addition to the
information
described above for inclusion in the minutes, a list of the
speakers on
each side of the question, with an abstract or text of each
address.
In such cases the secretary should have an assistant.
Transparency:
We do in fact publish our minutes so that the membership can
be
engaged, informed, and interested in accountability. I am
often
asked
what were the arguments against such and such, and it is not
reasonable
to tell the members to go hunt down a video when in fact the
abstract
may satisfy them.
--
In Liberty,
[uc?id=1DeRjq-L8dvRZabgEG94VkkUvjoHatcfP&export=download]
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
Secretary
- [1]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page
at [2][2][4]facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
====================================================================
===
==
Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
Re-Legalize
All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal
All
Gun
Laws * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money *
Abolish
The
Fed * End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS
and
Repeal
the Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure *
Free-market
Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government
Schools
To
The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation *
VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or
[3][3][5]http://www.LP.org
====================================================================
===
==
References
1. mailto:[4]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
2. [5][6]http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
3. [6][7]http://www.lp.org/
References
1. mailto:[8]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
2. [9]http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
3. [10]http://www.LP.org/
4. mailto:[11]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
5. [12]http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
6. [13]http://www.lp.org/
--
In Liberty,
[uc?id=1DeRjq-L8dvRZabgEG94VkkUvjoHatcfP&export=download]
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
Secretary - [14]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page
at [15]facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
=======================================================================
==
Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize
All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun
Laws * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The
Fed * End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal
the Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market
Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To
The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation *
VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or [16]http://www.LP.org
=======================================================================
==
--
In Liberty,
[uc?id=1DeRjq-L8dvRZabgEG94VkkUvjoHatcfP&export=download]
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
Secretary - [17]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page
at [18]facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
=======================================================================
==
Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize
All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun
Laws * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The
Fed * End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal
the Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market
Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To
The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation *
VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or [19]http://www.LP.org
=======================================================================
==
References
1. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
4. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
5. http://www.LP.org/
6. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
7. http://www.lp.org/
8. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
9. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
10. http://www.LP.org/
11. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
12. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
13. http://www.lp.org/
14. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
15. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
16. http://www.lp.org/
17. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
18. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
19. http://www.lp.org/
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