[Lnc-business] DRAFT MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 29-30, 2018 LNC MEETING - V1
Alicia Mattson
alicia.mattson at lp.org
Mon Nov 26 01:35:30 EST 2018
Skimming the subject lines of still-unread emails in my inbox, I see that
an updated draft of the September minutes has been sent today. My comments
below are from looking at the first draft. I have not reviewed today’s
update to see whether these have already been addressed, so there may be
some items listed here that are now moot.
No appendices were included with this draft of the September minutes. I’m
not inclined to approve things sight unseen. Many of the appendices were
sent in advance, but three of the appendices have not yet been seen by the
LNC:
Appendix A – abstracts of public comments
Appendix B – updated list of potential conflicts of interest
Appendix M – Candidate Support Committee report
There were a number of counted hand votes which were recorded to only say
whether the motion passed or failed but do not include the counted vote
totals:
p. 13, the Mattson amendment to 7/3/18 minutes was an 8-8 vote
p. 29, the Merced amendment to add “if any” to the Mattson amendment
regarding data to the Membership Support Committee was a 12-1 vote
p. 29, the Mattson amendment, as amended by the Merced motion, was an 11-2
vote
p. 29, the Redpath motion to change the next day’s starting time was a 7-6
vote
p. 35, motion 180930-6 was a 13-2 vote
p. 39, Lark motion to insert “non-voting” was an 11-2 vote
p. 39, Longstreth motion to insert the parenthetical phrase was a 6-7 vote
p. 42, Harlos motion to amend to add the phrase “and the Statement of
Principles” was a 13-0 vote
p. 42, Bilyeu motion to strike the original language was a 6-8 vote
p. 45, motion 180930-13 was a 13-2 vote
p. 46, Lark motion to postpone indefinitely was an 11-4 vote
p. 46, Merced amendment to strike the phrase “the entire LNC” was a 9-2 vote
p. 6 – Secretary’s Report is identified as being Appendix E, but later in
other locations it is referenced to be Appendix F
When amending the proposed agenda, we tend to operate very loosely, but the
draft minutes are phrased in a way that looks like the Chair unilaterally
has the power to dictate the agenda, rather than as though we were making
motions approved without objection by the LNC:
p. 8 “Mr. Sarwark noted a prior request…and instructed the LNC to note that
change”, rather than noting the change was made without objection
p. 8 add “without objection” before “The time allotted for the Special
Counsel’s Report…”
p. 8 “Mr. Sarwark added five (5) minutes to Mr. Hagan’s report…”, rather
than “Without objection, five (5) minutes were added…”
p. 8 change “Ms. Harlos requested ten (10) minutes…” to “Ms. Harlos moved
to add ten (10) minutes…” and “There was no objection.”
p. 13 motion 180929-4 has no “as amended” notation, though the prior
sentence indicates that an amendment was agreed to.
p. 14 in the penultimate bullet point, “it’s” should instead be “its”.
None of the election results tell the reader how many ballots were cast on
that election. That’s critical information to calculating how many votes
constituted the majority necessary for election.
p. 16 indicates the rules for population of the Audit Committee come from
the LNC Policy Manual, but as the Policy Manual notes in footnote 27, that
policy is inherited from LP Bylaws Article 9.2.
p. 17 indicates that “Mr. Goldstein nominated Mr. Redpath, but he is
ineligible as he is the Assistant Treasurer.” I know of a bylaw which
makes Mr. Hagan ineligible, since he is an officer, but I know of no rule
which makes Mr. Redpath ineligible as the Assistant Treasurer. I’m making
a mental note for myself that the bylaws should probably be amended to add
such a rule in the future.
p. 17 indicates that I “formally objected” to a nomination, but I don’t
know what it means to “formally object”. It sounds rather personal. I
believe I raised a point of order regarding distinctions between members
and alternates.
p. 17 spells my name incorrectly when I appealed the ruling of the chair.
p. 19 under Maine Ballot Access issues, it parenthetically indicates the
law is effectively requiring a “doubling” of the registration roster by the
November elections. I don’t think that is practically correct. Doubling
would be sufficient only if we had 100% Libertarian turnout, which ain’t
gonna happen. It really requires much more than doubling. The previous
sentence details the actual requirement, so I’d recommend just striking the
parenthetical.
p. 21 motion 180929-9 about opening nominations for the COC should append
“for the next term” to the end of the motion text. It may sound like Sam
was making a trivial distinction, but it’s not since the then-current term
of the COC members had not yet expired, and that language clarified that it
was not to name the members for the tiny remainder of the existing term,
but was to take effect upon expiration of their existing terms.
p. 24 says the LNC was unclear on the actual costs of Mr. Koerner’s
proposal, however he did give us some price points during the Q&A from his
presentation. My notes say he priced it at $10k to license trademarks for
6 months, plus 15% of merchandise sales, plus $120/hr consulting for his
time.
p. 27 Youth Engagement Committee – We did pass a motion to open nominations
for an election to appoint one and only one LNC member. That does not
preclude appointing another one later. It only limits that particular
election to only choose one. There were two people who commented during
debate that they wanted it limited to one total, but the debate comments of
two people are not binding decisions made by the whole LNC. Several
phrases written into the text of the minutes take that comment stated by a
couple of people during debate and project it onto the whole LNC as a
binding prohibition, though I think it is a personal interpretation. Many
LNC members later chose to also vote for Dustin Nanna for this committee,
so that likely indicates some disagreement with the interpretation embedded
into the minutes like this:
p. 27, first paragraph, “LNC member involvement should be limited”, was
merely a debate comment made by two people, though this is worded as though
it was confirmed that the LNC as a whole agreed with it.
p. 27, Ms. Lee was elected as the “sole” LNC member
p. 27, Mr. Sarwark confirmed that voting for the “non-LNC” members would
take place… though I don’t believe that was stated that way during the
meeting
p. 36, inclusion of the phrase “comprising non-LNC members”
p. 36, identifying Ms. Lee as “the sole” LNC member
the footnote on p. 45
All of these can easily be rephrased to not take a position on an
interpretation question as though it is a statement of established fact.
p. 31, my motion to apply an end date to email ballot 2018-19 was merely to
insert the phrase, “until the adjournment of the 2020 regular convention”,
but the draft minutes also format the next phrase “the Libertarian National
Committee” as text to be inserted, though that text was part of the
already-adopted language.
p. 32, the text of the “Neale Rule” being rescinded is not included in the
minutes. It’s long enough that it probably makes sense to put it in an
appendix, however the wording of the actual text being rescinded should be
included in the record. A reader would not otherwise have any idea where
to find the text of an unpublished rule.
p. 35, upon comment by Mr. Hagan, you indicated that the word “whether” was
intended to also be struck in first sentence of the motion, but it is not
struck in this draft or listed as an amendment adopted without objection.
p. 35, did the Chair rule that my amendment had German characteristics?
Perhaps “germaneness” is the word for which you were searching.
p. 40, motion 180930-9 describes the general nature of the motion but does
not show the actual text of the motion.
p. 40, also on motion 180930-9 there is a typo with a colon where a period
was intended, plank “2:12” rather than “2.12”.
p. 47, “Discussion of LNC Goals for the 2018-2020 Term” was actually done
post-adjournment, though this looks like it happened during the meeting.
p. 47, indicates adjournment was at 1:01 p.m., but my notes say it was at
2:15 p.m., followed by the informal goals discussion which ended at 2:47
p.m. I quickly checked a couple of external indicators (including my text
message history) to confirm the later adjournment time.
Large sections of the body of the minutes contain material which is merely
repetition of the staff/committee reports which will become appendices. In
some cases, it appears that the text in the minutes is copy/pasted directly
from the reports, so I don’t understand the need to have so many pages
duplicated in part rather than just inviting them to go to the appendix to
see the full original. Here are a few examples:
p. 13+ bullet list of items from Staff Report
p. 15 another bullet list of items from staff report
p. 20 bullet list from COC report
p. 21 section about the post-convention survey
-Alicia
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 2:31 AM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> Hello everyone attached please find the first draft of the minutes for
> the September 29-30, 2018 LNC meeting. First I want to thank everyone
> for their forbearance for not submitting during the auto-approval
> window due to my unexpected medical leave of absence.
>
> So that we can hash out any changes ahead of and simply vote on
> adoption at our December meeting, please advise asap of any suggested
> revisions or corrections.
>
> --
>
> In Liberty,
>
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary -
> Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
> Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
> facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
>
> =========================================================================
> Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize
> All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun
> Laws * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The
> Fed * End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal
> the Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market
> Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To
> The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation *
>
> VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org
> =========================================================================
>
-------------- next part --------------
Skimming the subject lines of still-unread emails in my inbox, I see
that an updated draft of the September minutes has been sent today. My
comments below are from looking at the first draft. I have not
reviewed today’s update to see whether these have already been
addressed, so there may be some items listed here that are now moot.
No appendices were included with this draft of the September minutes.
I’m not inclined to approve things sight unseen. Many of the
appendices were sent in advance, but three of the appendices have not
yet been seen by the LNC:
Appendix A – abstracts of public comments
Appendix B – updated list of potential conflicts of
interest
Appendix M – Candidate Support Committee report
There were a number of counted hand votes which were recorded to only
say whether the motion passed or failed but do not include the counted
vote totals:
p. 13, the Mattson amendment to 7/3/18 minutes was an 8-8 vote
p. 29, the Merced amendment to add “if any” to the Mattson amendment
regarding data to the Membership Support Committee was a 12-1 vote
p. 29, the Mattson amendment, as amended by the Merced motion, was an
11-2 vote
p. 29, the Redpath motion to change the next day’s starting time was a
7-6 vote
p. 35, motion 180930-6 was a 13-2 vote
p. 39, Lark motion to insert “non-voting” was an 11-2 vote
p. 39, Longstreth motion to insert the parenthetical phrase was a 6-7
vote
p. 42, Harlos motion to amend to add the phrase “and the Statement of
Principles” was a 13-0 vote
p. 42, Bilyeu motion to strike the original language was a 6-8 vote
p. 45, motion 180930-13 was a 13-2 vote
p. 46, Lark motion to postpone indefinitely was an 11-4 vote
p. 46, Merced amendment to strike the phrase “the entire LNC” was a 9-2
vote
p. 6 – Secretary’s Report is identified as being Appendix E, but later
in other locations it is referenced to be Appendix F
When amending the proposed agenda, we tend to operate very loosely, but
the draft minutes are phrased in a way that looks like the Chair
unilaterally has the power to dictate the agenda, rather than as though
we were making motions approved without objection by the LNC:
p. 8 “Mr. Sarwark noted a prior request…and instructed the LNC to note
that change”, rather than noting the change was made without objection
p. 8 add “without objection” before “The time allotted for the Special
Counsel’s Report…”
p. 8 “Mr. Sarwark added five (5) minutes to Mr. Hagan’s report…”,
rather than “Without objection, five (5) minutes were added…”
p. 8 change “Ms. Harlos requested ten (10) minutes…” to “Ms. Harlos
moved to add ten (10) minutes…” and “There was no objection.”
p. 13 motion 180929-4 has no “as amended” notation, though the prior
sentence indicates that an amendment was agreed to.
p. 14 in the penultimate bullet point, “it’s” should instead be “its”.
None of the election results tell the reader how many ballots were cast
on that election. That’s critical information to calculating how many
votes constituted the majority necessary for election.
p. 16 indicates the rules for population of the Audit Committee come
from the LNC Policy Manual, but as the Policy Manual notes in footnote
27, that policy is inherited from LP Bylaws Article 9.2.
p. 17 indicates that “Mr. Goldstein nominated Mr. Redpath, but he is
ineligible as he is the Assistant Treasurer.” I know of a bylaw which
makes Mr. Hagan ineligible, since he is an officer, but I know of no
rule which makes Mr. Redpath ineligible as the Assistant Treasurer.
I’m making a mental note for myself that the bylaws should probably be
amended to add such a rule in the future.
p. 17 indicates that I “formally objected” to a nomination, but I don’t
know what it means to “formally object”. It sounds rather personal. I
believe I raised a point of order regarding distinctions between
members and alternates.
p. 17 spells my name incorrectly when I appealed the ruling of the
chair.
p. 19 under Maine Ballot Access issues, it parenthetically indicates
the law is effectively requiring a “doubling” of the registration
roster by the November elections. I don’t think that is practically
correct. Doubling would be sufficient only if we had 100% Libertarian
turnout, which ain’t gonna happen. It really requires much more than
doubling. The previous sentence details the actual requirement, so I’d
recommend just striking the parenthetical.
p. 21 motion 180929-9 about opening nominations for the COC should
append “for the next term” to the end of the motion text. It may sound
like Sam was making a trivial distinction, but it’s not since the
then-current term of the COC members had not yet expired, and that
language clarified that it was not to name the members for the tiny
remainder of the existing term, but was to take effect upon expiration
of their existing terms.
p. 24 says the LNC was unclear on the actual costs of Mr. Koerner’s
proposal, however he did give us some price points during the Q&A from
his presentation. My notes say he priced it at $10k to license
trademarks for 6 months, plus 15% of merchandise sales, plus $120/hr
consulting for his time.
p. 27 Youth Engagement Committee – We did pass a motion to open
nominations for an election to appoint one and only one LNC member.
That does not preclude appointing another one later. It only limits
that particular election to only choose one. There were two people who
commented during debate that they wanted it limited to one total, but
the debate comments of two people are not binding decisions made by the
whole LNC. Several phrases written into the text of the minutes take
that comment stated by a couple of people during debate and project it
onto the whole LNC as a binding prohibition, though I think it is a
personal interpretation. Many LNC members later chose to also vote for
Dustin Nanna for this committee, so that likely indicates some
disagreement with the interpretation embedded into the minutes like
this:
p. 27, first paragraph, “LNC member involvement should be limited”, was
merely a debate comment made by two people, though this is worded as
though it was confirmed that the LNC as a whole agreed with it.
p. 27, Ms. Lee was elected as the “sole” LNC member
p. 27, Mr. Sarwark confirmed that voting for the “non-LNC” members
would take place… though I don’t believe that was stated that way
during the meeting
p. 36, inclusion of the phrase “comprising non-LNC members”
p. 36, identifying Ms. Lee as “the sole” LNC member
the footnote on p. 45
All of these can easily be rephrased to not take a position on an
interpretation question as though it is a statement of established
fact.
p. 31, my motion to apply an end date to email ballot 2018-19 was
merely to insert the phrase, “until the adjournment of the 2020 regular
convention”, but the draft minutes also format the next phrase “the
Libertarian National Committee” as text to be inserted, though that
text was part of the already-adopted language.
p. 32, the text of the “Neale Rule” being rescinded is not included in
the minutes. It’s long enough that it probably makes sense to put it
in an appendix, however the wording of the actual text being rescinded
should be included in the record. A reader would not otherwise have
any idea where to find the text of an unpublished rule.
p. 35, upon comment by Mr. Hagan, you indicated that the word “whether”
was intended to also be struck in first sentence of the motion, but it
is not struck in this draft or listed as an amendment adopted without
objection.
p. 35, did the Chair rule that my amendment had German
characteristics? Perhaps “germaneness” is the word for which you were
searching.
p. 40, motion 180930-9 describes the general nature of the motion but
does not show the actual text of the motion.
p. 40, also on motion 180930-9 there is a typo with a colon where a
period was intended, plank “2:12” rather than “2.12”.
p. 47, “Discussion of LNC Goals for the 2018-2020 Term” was actually
done post-adjournment, though this looks like it happened during the
meeting.
p. 47, indicates adjournment was at 1:01 p.m., but my notes say it was
at 2:15 p.m., followed by the informal goals discussion which ended at
2:47 p.m. I quickly checked a couple of external indicators (including
my text message history) to confirm the later adjournment time.
Large sections of the body of the minutes contain material which is
merely repetition of the staff/committee reports which will become
appendices. In some cases, it appears that the text in the minutes is
copy/pasted directly from the reports, so I don’t understand the need
to have so many pages duplicated in part rather than just inviting them
to go to the appendix to see the full original. Here are a few
examples:
p. 13+ bullet list of items from Staff Report
p. 15 another bullet list of items from staff report
p. 20 bullet list from COC report
p. 21 section about the post-convention survey
-Alicia
On Thu, Nov 8, 2018 at 2:31 AM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
<[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
Hello everyone attached please find the first draft of the minutes
for
the September 29-30, 2018 LNC meeting. First I want to thank
everyone
for their forbearance for not submitting during the auto-approval
window due to my unexpected medical leave of absence.
So that we can hash out any changes ahead of and simply vote on
adoption at our December meeting, please advise asap of any
suggested
revisions or corrections.
--
In Liberty,
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary -
Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
[2]facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
====================================================================
=====
Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
Re-Legalize
All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun
Laws * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The
Fed * End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and
Repeal
the Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure *
Free-market
Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To
The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation *
VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or [3]http://www.LP.org
====================================================================
=====
References
1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
2. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
3. http://www.LP.org/
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