[Lnc-business] Secretary's Report and LPHPC Report

Caryn Ann Harlos caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
Tue Nov 27 18:24:26 EST 2018


If in the future you would like an advance copy of my report and minutes to
spare the email boxes of everyone I’ll gladly do it.

Or you could write privately instead of making a spectacle as several
others do.

Let me know your pleasure.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 3:43 PM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:

>    <CAH> While I certainly appreciate the comments, the time to make them
>    is prior to the formal submission of the report at the meeting.  In
>    approving the minutes you are not approving the contents of any report,
>    and it is inappropriate IMHO to request changes to a report after it is
>    submitted.</CAH>
>    Any portion of the LNC's published minutes is subject to amendment by
>    the LNC.  RONR p. 481, speaking of reports of officers, indicates that,
>    "If the report is to become a permanent official document of the
>    organization, it should be formally adopted by the assembly."  When we
>    approve minutes, and they contain various attached reports, yes, we are
>    approving that material for publication as part of our minutes.  If we
>    haven't actually approved the officer reports, they should not be
>    published as an official document of the organization.  What's the
>    basis for your assertion that the reports attached to the minutes are
>    exempt from LNC approval?  What's the basis for putting time
>    constraints precluding amendment after the moment of submission?  We
>    could even amend them after publication, if a need were found, and we
>    have done so in the recent past.
>    CAH> This portion of my report is to reflect back what was reported at
>    the time of the votes.
>    Isn't the point of this report to just accurately report the email
>    ballot results for our historical records?  Bylaw Article 13 says the
>    minutes should report the "outcome of the motion", not that it should
>    reflect whatever magic text was originally reported on the email list.
>    Policy Manual Section 1.02.6 expands on the list of data which should
>    be reported in the minutes, and it just says the specified data should
>    be included, with no language hinting it must be frozen as of a
>    particular moment in time when a particular email was posted.  What's
>    the basis for that theory that a particular moment in time is more
>    important than making sure it is correct data?
>    This Secretary's Report ALREADY incorporates other corrections that
>    were pointed out since the time of your initial announcement of the
>    email ballot results.  Applying your theory would result in rolling
>    back your report content to reflect the initial report of the results,
>    and the corrections you have already incorporated here should instead
>    be placed in some sort of errata appendix.  That becomes unreadable and
>    hard for the reader to quickly piece together to determine the final
>    result.
>    During the 6/30 pre-convention LNC meeting in New Orleans, I made
>    motions to amend the email ballot results contained in the secretary's
>    report section of some past minutes, because they had been discovered
>    to be incomplete.  The discovery was made many months after the minutes
>    had been adopted.  You raised no objection to the LNC amending the
>    secretary's report I had submitted, offered no theory that it should be
>    frozen in time as of the original meeting date, and made no complaint
>    that these corrections weren't timely.  What has changed since then?
>    In the particular case of my suggestion to correct the formatting for
>    the strikeout text on email ballot 2018-18, you indicated that you want
>    to leave the motion as it was made.  If that's the technical standard,
>    when I made the motion, I actually used strikeout font in the email
>    that I sent, but the email list simply refused to display it the way
>    that I made it.  The email list didn't make the motion.  I did.  A
>    future reader who doesn't know the nuanced issues of our email list may
>    have no idea what that gibberish is, so if we are to convey useful
>    information to the reader, and show how the motion was actually made,
>    then strikeout font would be an appropriate way to do both
>    simultaneously.
>    -Alicia
>
>    On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 7:42 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
>    <[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
>         While I certainly appreciate the comments, the time to make them
>      is
>         prior to the formal submission of the report at the meeting.  In
>         approving the minutes you are not approving the contents of any
>      report,
>         and it is inappropriate IMHO to request changes to a report after
>      it is
>         submitted.  I have no personal issues taking a look and
>      submitting a
>         revised report (if I concur with the suggestions) but in the
>      future I
>         ask that comments be given at the time the report is submitted
>      and not
>         after the meeting.  Everyone had this report one week prior to
>      the
>         September meeting and could have offered suggestions then or at
>      the
>         meeting itself.
>         Joe, here is the document that Alicia is referring to.
>         On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 7:29 PM Joe Bishop-Henchman via
>      Lnc-business
>         <[1][2]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>              Would you mind attaching the report you're referencing? I
>      can't
>           seem to
>              find it.
>              JBH
>         --
>           In Liberty,
>         [uc?id=1DeRjq-L8dvRZabgEG94VkkUvjoHatcfP&export=download]
>         Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
>         Secretary - [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>         Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>         Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page
>         at [3][3]facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
>
>      ====================================================================
>      ===
>         ==
>         Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
>      Re-Legalize
>         All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All
>      Gun
>         Laws * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish
>      The
>         Fed * End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and
>      Repeal
>         the Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure *
>      Free-market
>         Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools
>      To
>         The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation *
>         VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or [4][4]http://www.LP.org
>
>      ====================================================================
>      ===
>         ==
>      References
>         1. mailto:[5]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>         2. mailto:[6]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>         3. [7]http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
>         4. [8]http://www.lp.org/
>
> References
>
>    1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>    2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>    3. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
>    4. http://www.LP.org/
>    5. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>    6. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
>    7. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
>    8. http://www.lp.org/
>
-- 

*  In Liberty,*

*Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *- Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
*Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/

=========================================================================
Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize All
Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun Laws *
Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed * End
Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the Income Tax
* Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency Services
* Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private Sector *
Eliminate Regulation *

*VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org <http://www.lp.org/>*
=========================================================================
-------------- next part --------------
   If in the future you would like an advance copy of my report and
   minutes to spare the email boxes of everyone I’ll gladly do it.

   Or you could write privately instead of making a spectacle as several
   others do.

   Let me know your pleasure.

   On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 3:43 PM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business
   <[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:

        <CAH> While I certainly appreciate the comments, the time to make
     them
        is prior to the formal submission of the report at the meeting.
     In
        approving the minutes you are not approving the contents of any
     report,
        and it is inappropriate IMHO to request changes to a report after
     it is
        submitted.</CAH>
        Any portion of the LNC's published minutes is subject to
     amendment by
        the LNC.  RONR p. 481, speaking of reports of officers, indicates
     that,
        "If the report is to become a permanent official document of the
        organization, it should be formally adopted by the assembly."
     When we
        approve minutes, and they contain various attached reports, yes,
     we are
        approving that material for publication as part of our minutes.
     If we
        haven't actually approved the officer reports, they should not be
        published as an official document of the organization.  What's
     the
        basis for your assertion that the reports attached to the minutes
     are
        exempt from LNC approval?  What's the basis for putting time
        constraints precluding amendment after the moment of submission?
     We
        could even amend them after publication, if a need were found,
     and we
        have done so in the recent past.
        CAH> This portion of my report is to reflect back what was
     reported at
        the time of the votes.
        Isn't the point of this report to just accurately report the
     email
        ballot results for our historical records?  Bylaw Article 13 says
     the
        minutes should report the "outcome of the motion", not that it
     should
        reflect whatever magic text was originally reported on the email
     list.
        Policy Manual Section 1.02.6 expands on the list of data which
     should
        be reported in the minutes, and it just says the specified data
     should
        be included, with no language hinting it must be frozen as of a
        particular moment in time when a particular email was posted.
     What's
        the basis for that theory that a particular moment in time is
     more
        important than making sure it is correct data?
        This Secretary's Report ALREADY incorporates other corrections
     that
        were pointed out since the time of your initial announcement of
     the
        email ballot results.  Applying your theory would result in
     rolling
        back your report content to reflect the initial report of the
     results,
        and the corrections you have already incorporated here should
     instead
        be placed in some sort of errata appendix.  That becomes
     unreadable and
        hard for the reader to quickly piece together to determine the
     final
        result.
        During the 6/30 pre-convention LNC meeting in New Orleans, I made
        motions to amend the email ballot results contained in the
     secretary's
        report section of some past minutes, because they had been
     discovered
        to be incomplete.  The discovery was made many months after the
     minutes
        had been adopted.  You raised no objection to the LNC amending
     the
        secretary's report I had submitted, offered no theory that it
     should be
        frozen in time as of the original meeting date, and made no
     complaint
        that these corrections weren't timely.  What has changed since
     then?
        In the particular case of my suggestion to correct the formatting
     for
        the strikeout text on email ballot 2018-18, you indicated that
     you want
        to leave the motion as it was made.  If that's the technical
     standard,
        when I made the motion, I actually used strikeout font in the
     email
        that I sent, but the email list simply refused to display it the
     way
        that I made it.  The email list didn't make the motion.  I did.
     A
        future reader who doesn't know the nuanced issues of our email
     list may
        have no idea what that gibberish is, so if we are to convey
     useful
        information to the reader, and show how the motion was actually
     made,
        then strikeout font would be an appropriate way to do both
        simultaneously.
        -Alicia
        On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 7:42 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
        <[1][2]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
             While I certainly appreciate the comments, the time to make
     them
          is
             prior to the formal submission of the report at the
     meeting.  In
             approving the minutes you are not approving the contents of
     any
          report,
             and it is inappropriate IMHO to request changes to a report
     after
          it is
             submitted.  I have no personal issues taking a look and
          submitting a
             revised report (if I concur with the suggestions) but in the
          future I
             ask that comments be given at the time the report is
     submitted
          and not
             after the meeting.  Everyone had this report one week prior
     to
          the
             September meeting and could have offered suggestions then or
     at
          the
             meeting itself.
             Joe, here is the document that Alicia is referring to.
             On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 7:29 PM Joe Bishop-Henchman via
          Lnc-business
             <[1][2][3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
                  Would you mind attaching the report you're referencing?
     I
          can't
               seem to
                  find it.
                  JBH
             --
               In Liberty,

     [uc?id=1DeRjq-L8dvRZabgEG94VkkUvjoHatcfP&export=download]
             Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
             Secretary - [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
             Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
             Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page
             at [3][3][4]facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/

     ====================================================================
          ===
             ==
             Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
          Re-Legalize
             All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal
     All
          Gun
             Laws * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money *
     Abolish
          The
             Fed * End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS
     and
          Repeal
             the Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure *
          Free-market
             Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government
     Schools
          To
             The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation *
             VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or
     [4][4][5]http://www.LP.org

     ====================================================================
          ===
             ==
          References
             1. mailto:[5][6]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
             2. mailto:[6]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
             3. [7][7]http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
             4. [8][8]http://www.lp.org/
     References
        1. mailto:[9]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
        2. mailto:[10]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
        3. [11]http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
        4. [12]http://www.LP.org/
        5. mailto:[13]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
        6. mailto:[14]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
        7. [15]http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
        8. [16]http://www.lp.org/

   --

     In Liberty,
   [uc?id=1DeRjq-L8dvRZabgEG94VkkUvjoHatcfP&export=download]
   Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
   Secretary - [17]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
   Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
   Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page
   at [18]facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
   =======================================================================
   ==
   Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize
   All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun
   Laws * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The
   Fed * End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal
   the Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market
   Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To
   The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation *
   VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or [19]http://www.LP.org
   =======================================================================
   ==

References

   1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   4. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
   5. http://www.LP.org/
   6. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
   7. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
   8. http://www.lp.org/
   9. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  10. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  11. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
  12. http://www.LP.org/
  13. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
  14. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
  15. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
  16. http://www.lp.org/
  17. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
  18. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
  19. http://www.lp.org/


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