[Lnc-business] Secretary's Report and LPHPC Report
Caryn Ann Harlos
caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
Tue Nov 27 18:24:26 EST 2018
If in the future you would like an advance copy of my report and minutes to
spare the email boxes of everyone I’ll gladly do it.
Or you could write privately instead of making a spectacle as several
others do.
Let me know your pleasure.
On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 3:43 PM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> <CAH> While I certainly appreciate the comments, the time to make them
> is prior to the formal submission of the report at the meeting. In
> approving the minutes you are not approving the contents of any report,
> and it is inappropriate IMHO to request changes to a report after it is
> submitted.</CAH>
> Any portion of the LNC's published minutes is subject to amendment by
> the LNC. RONR p. 481, speaking of reports of officers, indicates that,
> "If the report is to become a permanent official document of the
> organization, it should be formally adopted by the assembly." When we
> approve minutes, and they contain various attached reports, yes, we are
> approving that material for publication as part of our minutes. If we
> haven't actually approved the officer reports, they should not be
> published as an official document of the organization. What's the
> basis for your assertion that the reports attached to the minutes are
> exempt from LNC approval? What's the basis for putting time
> constraints precluding amendment after the moment of submission? We
> could even amend them after publication, if a need were found, and we
> have done so in the recent past.
> CAH> This portion of my report is to reflect back what was reported at
> the time of the votes.
> Isn't the point of this report to just accurately report the email
> ballot results for our historical records? Bylaw Article 13 says the
> minutes should report the "outcome of the motion", not that it should
> reflect whatever magic text was originally reported on the email list.
> Policy Manual Section 1.02.6 expands on the list of data which should
> be reported in the minutes, and it just says the specified data should
> be included, with no language hinting it must be frozen as of a
> particular moment in time when a particular email was posted. What's
> the basis for that theory that a particular moment in time is more
> important than making sure it is correct data?
> This Secretary's Report ALREADY incorporates other corrections that
> were pointed out since the time of your initial announcement of the
> email ballot results. Applying your theory would result in rolling
> back your report content to reflect the initial report of the results,
> and the corrections you have already incorporated here should instead
> be placed in some sort of errata appendix. That becomes unreadable and
> hard for the reader to quickly piece together to determine the final
> result.
> During the 6/30 pre-convention LNC meeting in New Orleans, I made
> motions to amend the email ballot results contained in the secretary's
> report section of some past minutes, because they had been discovered
> to be incomplete. The discovery was made many months after the minutes
> had been adopted. You raised no objection to the LNC amending the
> secretary's report I had submitted, offered no theory that it should be
> frozen in time as of the original meeting date, and made no complaint
> that these corrections weren't timely. What has changed since then?
> In the particular case of my suggestion to correct the formatting for
> the strikeout text on email ballot 2018-18, you indicated that you want
> to leave the motion as it was made. If that's the technical standard,
> when I made the motion, I actually used strikeout font in the email
> that I sent, but the email list simply refused to display it the way
> that I made it. The email list didn't make the motion. I did. A
> future reader who doesn't know the nuanced issues of our email list may
> have no idea what that gibberish is, so if we are to convey useful
> information to the reader, and show how the motion was actually made,
> then strikeout font would be an appropriate way to do both
> simultaneously.
> -Alicia
>
> On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 7:42 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
> <[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
> While I certainly appreciate the comments, the time to make them
> is
> prior to the formal submission of the report at the meeting. In
> approving the minutes you are not approving the contents of any
> report,
> and it is inappropriate IMHO to request changes to a report after
> it is
> submitted. I have no personal issues taking a look and
> submitting a
> revised report (if I concur with the suggestions) but in the
> future I
> ask that comments be given at the time the report is submitted
> and not
> after the meeting. Everyone had this report one week prior to
> the
> September meeting and could have offered suggestions then or at
> the
> meeting itself.
> Joe, here is the document that Alicia is referring to.
> On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 7:29 PM Joe Bishop-Henchman via
> Lnc-business
> <[1][2]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> Would you mind attaching the report you're referencing? I
> can't
> seem to
> find it.
> JBH
> --
> In Liberty,
> [uc?id=1DeRjq-L8dvRZabgEG94VkkUvjoHatcfP&export=download]
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
> Secretary - [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
> Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page
> at [3][3]facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
>
> ====================================================================
> ===
> ==
> Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
> Re-Legalize
> All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All
> Gun
> Laws * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish
> The
> Fed * End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and
> Repeal
> the Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure *
> Free-market
> Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools
> To
> The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation *
> VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or [4][4]http://www.LP.org
>
> ====================================================================
> ===
> ==
> References
> 1. mailto:[5]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 2. mailto:[6]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 3. [7]http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> 4. [8]http://www.lp.org/
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 3. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> 4. http://www.LP.org/
> 5. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 6. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 7. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> 8. http://www.lp.org/
>
--
* In Liberty,*
*Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *- Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
*Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
=========================================================================
Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize All
Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun Laws *
Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed * End
Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the Income Tax
* Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency Services
* Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private Sector *
Eliminate Regulation *
*VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org <http://www.lp.org/>*
=========================================================================
-------------- next part --------------
If in the future you would like an advance copy of my report and
minutes to spare the email boxes of everyone I’ll gladly do it.
Or you could write privately instead of making a spectacle as several
others do.
Let me know your pleasure.
On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 3:43 PM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business
<[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
<CAH> While I certainly appreciate the comments, the time to make
them
is prior to the formal submission of the report at the meeting.
In
approving the minutes you are not approving the contents of any
report,
and it is inappropriate IMHO to request changes to a report after
it is
submitted.</CAH>
Any portion of the LNC's published minutes is subject to
amendment by
the LNC. RONR p. 481, speaking of reports of officers, indicates
that,
"If the report is to become a permanent official document of the
organization, it should be formally adopted by the assembly."
When we
approve minutes, and they contain various attached reports, yes,
we are
approving that material for publication as part of our minutes.
If we
haven't actually approved the officer reports, they should not be
published as an official document of the organization. What's
the
basis for your assertion that the reports attached to the minutes
are
exempt from LNC approval? What's the basis for putting time
constraints precluding amendment after the moment of submission?
We
could even amend them after publication, if a need were found,
and we
have done so in the recent past.
CAH> This portion of my report is to reflect back what was
reported at
the time of the votes.
Isn't the point of this report to just accurately report the
email
ballot results for our historical records? Bylaw Article 13 says
the
minutes should report the "outcome of the motion", not that it
should
reflect whatever magic text was originally reported on the email
list.
Policy Manual Section 1.02.6 expands on the list of data which
should
be reported in the minutes, and it just says the specified data
should
be included, with no language hinting it must be frozen as of a
particular moment in time when a particular email was posted.
What's
the basis for that theory that a particular moment in time is
more
important than making sure it is correct data?
This Secretary's Report ALREADY incorporates other corrections
that
were pointed out since the time of your initial announcement of
the
email ballot results. Applying your theory would result in
rolling
back your report content to reflect the initial report of the
results,
and the corrections you have already incorporated here should
instead
be placed in some sort of errata appendix. That becomes
unreadable and
hard for the reader to quickly piece together to determine the
final
result.
During the 6/30 pre-convention LNC meeting in New Orleans, I made
motions to amend the email ballot results contained in the
secretary's
report section of some past minutes, because they had been
discovered
to be incomplete. The discovery was made many months after the
minutes
had been adopted. You raised no objection to the LNC amending
the
secretary's report I had submitted, offered no theory that it
should be
frozen in time as of the original meeting date, and made no
complaint
that these corrections weren't timely. What has changed since
then?
In the particular case of my suggestion to correct the formatting
for
the strikeout text on email ballot 2018-18, you indicated that
you want
to leave the motion as it was made. If that's the technical
standard,
when I made the motion, I actually used strikeout font in the
email
that I sent, but the email list simply refused to display it the
way
that I made it. The email list didn't make the motion. I did.
A
future reader who doesn't know the nuanced issues of our email
list may
have no idea what that gibberish is, so if we are to convey
useful
information to the reader, and show how the motion was actually
made,
then strikeout font would be an appropriate way to do both
simultaneously.
-Alicia
On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 7:42 PM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business
<[1][2]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
While I certainly appreciate the comments, the time to make
them
is
prior to the formal submission of the report at the
meeting. In
approving the minutes you are not approving the contents of
any
report,
and it is inappropriate IMHO to request changes to a report
after
it is
submitted. I have no personal issues taking a look and
submitting a
revised report (if I concur with the suggestions) but in the
future I
ask that comments be given at the time the report is
submitted
and not
after the meeting. Everyone had this report one week prior
to
the
September meeting and could have offered suggestions then or
at
the
meeting itself.
Joe, here is the document that Alicia is referring to.
On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 7:29 PM Joe Bishop-Henchman via
Lnc-business
<[1][2][3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
Would you mind attaching the report you're referencing?
I
can't
seem to
find it.
JBH
--
In Liberty,
[uc?id=1DeRjq-L8dvRZabgEG94VkkUvjoHatcfP&export=download]
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
Secretary - [2]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page
at [3][3][4]facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
====================================================================
===
==
Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
Re-Legalize
All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal
All
Gun
Laws * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money *
Abolish
The
Fed * End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS
and
Repeal
the Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure *
Free-market
Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government
Schools
To
The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation *
VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or
[4][4][5]http://www.LP.org
====================================================================
===
==
References
1. mailto:[5][6]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
2. mailto:[6]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
3. [7][7]http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
4. [8][8]http://www.lp.org/
References
1. mailto:[9]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
2. mailto:[10]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
3. [11]http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
4. [12]http://www.LP.org/
5. mailto:[13]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
6. mailto:[14]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
7. [15]http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
8. [16]http://www.lp.org/
--
In Liberty,
[uc?id=1DeRjq-L8dvRZabgEG94VkkUvjoHatcfP&export=download]
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
Secretary - [17]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page
at [18]facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
=======================================================================
==
Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize
All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun
Laws * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The
Fed * End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal
the Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market
Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To
The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation *
VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or [19]http://www.LP.org
=======================================================================
==
References
1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
4. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
5. http://www.LP.org/
6. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
7. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
8. http://www.lp.org/
9. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
10. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
11. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
12. http://www.LP.org/
13. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
14. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
15. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
16. http://www.lp.org/
17. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
18. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
19. http://www.lp.org/
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