[Lnc-business] drama over RCV in Maine
Caryn Ann Harlos
caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
Sat Dec 15 21:38:35 EST 2018
The explanation of the spoiled ballot issue is sound and logical.
But I wonder why open source nonproprietary software could not be used?
Manually testing a machine is much different examining code.
On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 6:08 PM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> Nearly every vote-counting machine makes use of proprietary software,
> though it may be required that the machine be made available for
> advance testing to confirm how it counts various scenarios.
> I believe you fell for their terminology. The basic logic of "for any
> given ballot, count the vote for the highest-ranked candidate who has
> not been dropped" is described as a complex and mysterious proprietary
> algorithm precisely in order to evoke the suspicious response that you
> had.
> There are several reasons to not include the exhausted ballots in the
> denominator. Election denominators are those who cast a vote in that
> particular race, not the number who showed up at the polls that day but
> skipped voting in that race. Abstentions do not count in the
> denominator. In ranked choice voting, each round is basically a
> separate election, and the voters who cast the exhausted ballots
> abstained in the subsequent rounds, choosing to not express a
> preference. The point is to get to a majority of those who expressed a
> preference in that round of voting, and keeping the
> exhausted/abstentions in the count could prevent anyone from ever
> achieving a majority.
> -Alicia
>
> On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 2:02 AM Caryn Ann Harlos
> <[1]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
>
> Very interesting choice of "rank voting" in some places which
> purposefully seems to make the reader think of stinky and "ranked
> voting" in others.
> I think a couple of interesting points though were raised - why is the
> software proprietary? I don't think wanting to inspect the software is
> unreasonable, and I could see the LP making that request in certain
> situations. My second question is that is it correct that the spoiled
> votes are not only not reallocated but are they thrown out of the total
> needed so that the winner truly can hypothetically not have 50% plus
> one of the voter numbers that showed up on election day? Those two
> points I think were valid concerns.
> The rest is hysterical fear mongering and "people are too stupid to
> figure this out" language.
>
> On Fri, Dec 14, 2018 at 11:44 PM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business
> <[2]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
> I thought you would enjoy the vocabulary choices in this article
> portraying Maine's ranked choice voting as being some dirty
> trick. I
> like the talk about the scary proprietary algorithm that decides
> how
> the votes are re-allocated in round 2.
>
> [1][3]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/05/gop-winner-in-ma
> ine-02
> -now-declared-loser-due-to-rank-voting/
> Of course, if the tables were turned, and the Democrat had the
> plurality but lost to the Republican in runoff rounds, the
> Democrats
> would be making the same complaints.
> -Alicia
> References
> 1.
> [4]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/05/gop-winner-in-maine
> -02-now-declared-loser-due-to-rank-voting/
>
> --
>
> In Liberty,
> [uc?id=1DeRjq-L8dvRZabgEG94VkkUvjoHatcfP&export=download]
> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
> Secretary - [5]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
> Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page
> at [6]facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> =======================================================================
> ==
> Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize
> All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun
> Laws * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The
> Fed * End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal
> the Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market
> Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To
> The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation *
> VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or [7]http://www.LP.org
> =======================================================================
> ==
>
> References
>
> 1. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
> 2. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> 3. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/05/gop-winner-in-maine-02
> 4.
> https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/05/gop-winner-in-maine-02-now-declared-loser-due-to-rank-voting/
> 5. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
> 6. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> 7. http://www.lp.org/
>
--
* In Liberty,*
*Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *- Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
*Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
=========================================================================
Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize All
Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun Laws *
Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed * End
Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the Income Tax
* Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency Services
* Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private Sector *
Eliminate Regulation *
*VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org <http://www.lp.org/>*
=========================================================================
-------------- next part --------------
The explanation of the spoiled ballot issue is sound and logical.
But I wonder why open source nonproprietary software could not be
used? Manually testing a machine is much different examining code.
On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 6:08 PM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business
<[1]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
Nearly every vote-counting machine makes use of proprietary
software,
though it may be required that the machine be made available for
advance testing to confirm how it counts various scenarios.
I believe you fell for their terminology. The basic logic of
"for any
given ballot, count the vote for the highest-ranked candidate who
has
not been dropped" is described as a complex and mysterious
proprietary
algorithm precisely in order to evoke the suspicious response
that you
had.
There are several reasons to not include the exhausted ballots in
the
denominator. Election denominators are those who cast a vote in
that
particular race, not the number who showed up at the polls that
day but
skipped voting in that race. Abstentions do not count in the
denominator. In ranked choice voting, each round is basically a
separate election, and the voters who cast the exhausted ballots
abstained in the subsequent rounds, choosing to not express a
preference. The point is to get to a majority of those who
expressed a
preference in that round of voting, and keeping the
exhausted/abstentions in the count could prevent anyone from ever
achieving a majority.
-Alicia
On Sat, Dec 15, 2018 at 2:02 AM Caryn Ann Harlos
<[1][2]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
Very interesting choice of "rank voting" in some places which
purposefully seems to make the reader think of stinky and "ranked
voting" in others.
I think a couple of interesting points though were raised - why
is the
software proprietary? I don't think wanting to inspect the
software is
unreasonable, and I could see the LP making that request in
certain
situations. My second question is that is it correct that the
spoiled
votes are not only not reallocated but are they thrown out of the
total
needed so that the winner truly can hypothetically not have 50%
plus
one of the voter numbers that showed up on election day? Those
two
points I think were valid concerns.
The rest is hysterical fear mongering and "people are too stupid
to
figure this out" language.
On Fri, Dec 14, 2018 at 11:44 PM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business
<[2][3]lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
I thought you would enjoy the vocabulary choices in this
article
portraying Maine's ranked choice voting as being some dirty
trick. I
like the talk about the scary proprietary algorithm that
decides
how
the votes are re-allocated in round 2.
[1][3][4]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/05/gop-winner-in
-ma
ine-02
-now-declared-loser-due-to-rank-voting/
Of course, if the tables were turned, and the Democrat had
the
plurality but lost to the Republican in runoff rounds, the
Democrats
would be making the same complaints.
-Alicia
References
1.
[4][5]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/05/gop-winner-in-ma
ine
-02-now-declared-loser-due-to-rank-voting/
--
In Liberty,
[uc?id=1DeRjq-L8dvRZabgEG94VkkUvjoHatcfP&export=download]
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
Secretary - [5]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page
at [6][6]facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
====================================================================
===
==
Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
Re-Legalize
All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All
Gun
Laws * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish
The
Fed * End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and
Repeal
the Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure *
Free-market
Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools
To
The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation *
VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or [7][7]http://www.LP.org
====================================================================
===
==
References
1. mailto:[8]caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
2. mailto:[9]lnc-business at hq.lp.org
3.
[10]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/05/gop-winner-in-main
e-02
4.
[11]https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/05/gop-winner-in-main
e-02-now-declared-loser-due-to-rank-voting/
5. mailto:[12]Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
6. [13]http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
7. [14]http://www.lp.org/
--
In Liberty,
[uc?id=1DeRjq-L8dvRZabgEG94VkkUvjoHatcfP&export=download]
Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
Secretary - [15]Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page
at [16]facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
=======================================================================
==
Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize
All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun
Laws * Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The
Fed * End Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal
the Income Tax * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market
Emergency Services * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To
The Private Sector * Eliminate Regulation *
VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or [17]http://www.LP.org
=======================================================================
==
References
1. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
2. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
3. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
4. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/05/gop-winner-in-ma
5. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/05/gop-winner-in-maine
6. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
7. http://www.LP.org/
8. mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
9. mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org
10. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/05/gop-winner-in-maine-02
11. https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2018/12/05/gop-winner-in-maine-02-now-declared-loser-due-to-rank-voting/
12. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
13. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
14. http://www.lp.org/
15. mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org
16. http://facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
17. http://www.lp.org/
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