[Lnc-business] Resolution Condemning Conversion Therapies

[Jeff Lyons]

"While I appreciate Jeff Lyon's passion about a horrible practice he's  


recently learned about, there are many horrible practices that people do  


to children. Do we grab one horrible practice because it's recently in  


the news, and tout that as something we're against? Yes, we're against  


people using aggression against others. That's a central part of our  


platform. Do we spell out each incident and type of aggression? I don't  


think that's the way to go." 




Thank you Ms. Van Horn for all the work you've done in the past on this issue.  However, I completely disagree on the point, "Do we grab one horrible practice because it's recently in the news[...]?" YES! Absolutely! If there is one reason to issue a resolution or a press release it is to get our point of view IN THE PRESS!  That is how we change hearts and minds, by communicating with people, and it is something we desperately need to do A LOT more of. 






Please don't mistake my emphasis above for anger or aggressiveness but I can't stress this enough.  We need to endeavor to get the Libertarian Platform and our comments on current events in the press as often as humanly possible, and we need to take tactical advantage of what the press is covering and what people are already talking about whenever possible.  Do I want to get tangled up in issues that R's and D's have already radicalized their tribes to the point of Stockholm Syndrome? A fool's errand.  But if we can create conversations that we can lead with liberty, we will begin to convert. 




That's my pitch. 




Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk. 




-Jeff 




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On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 12:13 PM -0400, "Jeff Lyons" <jeff.lyons at lp.org> wrote:










Good morning,




I agree it is a children's rights and therefore an individual rights issue.  I have got a lot of comments from detractors of this statement saying people should be *allowed* to do it if they *consent*, and that we should focus on limiting government, not banning a service that people seek out willingly.  I've gotten suggestions to amend the resolution to state that explicitly. 




This resolution says what it says, and it does NOT say what it does NOT.  I carefully worded this resolution to deal explicitly with the *unwilling*.  Government should not be interfering with "consenting adults", but this resolution deals with *unconsenting children*, not "consenting children", nor "consenting adults". It deals with *unconsenting children* exclusively and explicitly.  I feel there is no need to digress or deviate. 




Furthermore, I think that calling a practice fraud, while not calling for criminalization or growing government to combat it, only that we *oppose* it, is well within the scope of Libertarianism and does not call for government to take action in any case other than it's preordained duty to protect the individual rights of those who cannot defend themselves from serious harm and aggression.  If there is one thing government is instituted by people to do, it's to protect the right to live free.  




In contrast, conversion therapy ranges from the occasional regularly scheduled appointment with a therapist to the involuntary detainment of homosexual, transgender, and other LGBTQ+ people, or other misunderstood children, in camps or group homes from which they may not leave and may not speak to their parents about what goes on.  I dread to make light of it by comparing it to "Heavyweights" or Been Stiller's other character from the retirement home in "Happy Gilmore" - detaining and abusing those who can't speak up or defend themselves.




When someone calls social security or social services or other government public health services and tells them they want money to send a kid to a conversion therapy doctor, the government should not send anyone our tax dollars to do that.  They should tell them it's a fraudulent service they won't let our tax dollars go to, as ruled by the courts and upheld by the US Circuits courts.  These cases are not yet to the point where they have become case law or the law of the land, and only 16 states have moved to ban the practice (for children only, not consenting and willing adults), and we should support moving the ball down the field on this issue. Otherwise, the tax dollars we send to these fraudster will continue to be forfeit in civil suits by unsatisfied parents.




People have also said "what about talk therapy", "most conversion therapy is just talk therapy".  To that I say- Therapy is therapy. You can and should talk to a therapist if you have problems you need to work out.  The patient should be in control of what the goals of that therapy will be.  When a parent takes a child to a therapist because they suspect they might be gay, and the therapist is hired with the intention of "correcting" that behavior, this is a fraudulent offer.  The practice of conversion therapy has been studied and shown to cause serious irreparable damage, massively increased suicide rates in affected teens, and it has been deemed completely unethical. 




Though we oppose occupational licensing, government should not be licensing unethical doctors.  We support voluntary organizations such as the AMA and the APA endorsing the ethics and quality standards in lieu of occupational licensing. They continue to reiterate decades of "strong opposition" to this very dangerous practice. We should join with their voices. 




https://www.psychiatry.org/newsroom/news-releases/apa-reiterates-strong-opposition-to-conversion-therapy 




We are lucky that in modern times, it is much easier to live openly gay than it has ever been before, but just because things seem to be moving in the right direction, doesn't mean we slow down.  When you think of someone living "in the closet", this is why.  For children, there can be no greater hell than fearing your parents will send you away to try and change who you really are, other than being forced to actually go through it.




I denounce conversion therapy in the strongest possible terms. I hope you will join me and other activists in this field in bringing this issue to the forefront in the coming years. 




Thank you all for your time and serious consideration of this issue as well as the debate and constructive criticism from all angles.  I truly appreciate it. 




I would also like to thank all the LGBTQ+, Sex Workers Rights, unofficial Caucuses and Activists that I have spoken to and met with over the past year who have educated me on these issues.  I am sincerely and deeply mortified that this level of involuntary and indefinite detention is still possible in America and I intend to fight it, passionately, as with any other form of Tyranny and oppression, by any government or any private entity.




Thanks. 




Very respectfully, 


Jeff Lyons 


LNC 8A 




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On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 10:31 AM -0400, "Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business" <lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:










Wow that is an angle I had not considered but that conforms to my thoughts
that we address this as a children’s rights issue.



On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 5:52 AM Susan Hogarth via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:

>
> This resolution certainly is hard to speak against. But I will.
>
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>
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>  I feel this is problematic for us as a political party. We should be
> addressing the role of the state in people’s lives, not weighing in on
> practices individuals choose.
>
>
>
> Absolutely we are against individuals aggressing against others, but I
> don’t think it makes sense for us *as a political party* to issue
> statements condemning individual aggressions. Especially in the case where
> legislation to ban such practices is under discussion, this makes it seem
> as if we support state bans. (And guess what, harming people is already
> illegal).
>
>
>
>
>   Susan Jane Hogarth
>
>   Region 5 Alternate
>
>   919-906-2106 (tel:919-906-2106)
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> >
> > On Apr 10, 2019 at 11:56 AM,   lnc-business at hq.lp.org)>  wrote:
> >
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> >
> >  Good Morning,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  I found a subject that I do not believe our platform addresses clearly
> enough and there has been some debate internally and externally about a
> recent decision in Massachusetts to ban Conversion Therapy for Minors,
> because that might include government intervention into how parents choose
> to raise children.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > After doing some research and speaking with members of the Libertarian
> Party who: have been personally exposed to this unwillingly as children,
> were unable to communicate privately with their parents about the true
> nature of this physical torture, were physically restrained and beaten for
> attempting to be released from these concentration camps even upon reaching
> adulthood, and their parents were convinced to sign their child up for
> Social Security / Disability and pass that government money on to the
> Therapists to unwittingly pay for the indefinite treatment of detained
> children, even into adulthood, with absolutely no achievable criterion for
> patients to win back their freedom; I am DEEPLY disturbed that such a thing
> is still ongoing in modern America.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Therefore, I will propose the following resolution. I hope you will
> co-sponsor and I welcome any input and revision that will more strongly
> codify the Libertarian Party stance in SUPPORT of LGBTQ+ communities and
> AGAINST torture and involuntary detainment.
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> > Draft:
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> > "WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party asserts that all individuals have the
> right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to
> live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly
> interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they
> choose;
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > WHEREAS, parents, or other guardians, have the right to raise their
> children according to their own standards and beliefs, provided that the
> rights of children to be free from abuse and neglect are also protected;
> >
> >
> >
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> > WHEREAS, Conversion therapy for sexual orientation is now considered
> unethical by both The American Psychiatric Association and The American
> Academy of Child  &  Adolescent Psychiatry;
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > WHEREAS, the Supreme Court has declined to review and shown no concern
> with the decision of the U.S. Court of Appeals in the 3rd and 9th Circuits
> which have upheld the Ban on Conversion Therapy for Minors, and upheld the
> decision of a lower court in New Jersey where a 12-person jury unanimously
> declared it "Consumer Fraud".
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > WHEREAS, conversion therapy has been experimented in the past as a form
> of punishment for homosexuality, and there has been no evidence whatsoever
> that conversion therapy can successfully alter the gender identity or
> sexual orientation of unwilling participants;
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > WHEREAS, children are often subjected to conversion therapy against
> their will by loving parents whom are unaware that the methods used in
> conversion therapy are extremely forceful and abusive, often utilizing
> psychological torture, physical punishment, starvation, aversive
> treatments, and public shaming or embarrassing a child whenever they
> display undesired behaviors, and that conversion therapy has been shown to
> result in suicide attempts by 20% of these patients: a five-fold increase
> in risk of suicide attempts compared to other teens;
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, Conversion therapy, also called "reparative
> therapy," "reorientation therapy," or "ex-gay therapy" constitutes consumer
> fraud and forceful abuse, which the Libertarian Party opposes.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > FURTHER, BE IT RESOLVED, the Libertarian Party opposes subjecting
> unwilling participants through force or coercion, especially children, to
> conversion therapy treatment or other forms of counseling expressly
> designed to alter their gender identity, sexual orientation, or hormonal
> balance."
> >
> >
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> > Thank you for all you do for the Liberty of others and I believe in this
> case there are some who sorely need our help.
> >
> >
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> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Very Respectfully,
> >
> >
> > Jeff Lyons
> >
> >
> > LNC Region 8 Alternate
> >
> >
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> >
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> >
> >
> > Get Outlook for Android
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
-- 

*  In Liberty,*

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