[Lnc-business] Resolution Condemning Conversion Therapies

[Joe Bishop-Henchman]

To Ms. Van Horn, A difference I see is that this particular issue is a 
topic on the state legislative agenda this year. 5 states have passed 
bans on the practice and many others are considering them. I understand 
and respect those who prefer the LNC generally not take policy positions 
on anything, or at least things outside of ballot access and electoral 
issues. But if that's not a hard-and-fast rule, something under active 
consideration in multiple states would meet the test for me.

To Ms. Harlos, I believe that deleting the language persuasive beyond 
Libertarians would make the resolution less effective in your stated 
goal of escaping background political noise. I myself would prefer that 
if we take positions on issues, we endorse specific bills or at least 
direct staff to distribute statements of support to legislators on 
specific bills on this topic. There will be few Libertarians among that 
audience and to be effective it needs to mix calls to a priori 
Libertarian principles with supporting evidence and information.

JBH

------------
Joe Bishop-Henchman
LNC Member (At-Large)
joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837

On 2019-04-11 12:08, Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business wrote:
> When I was on the 2018 LP Platform committee I argued against a
> proposed 'Parent's rights" type plank.  The reason was that it was the
> type of idea that says parent's have the "right" to do, and make all
> kinds of choices regarding their children, and it was a problem with
> the wording and intent which can be misconstrued.
> 
> As a parent, I agree that parent's have the "right", for a better
> word, to be able to make many choices concerning their children.
> 
> But, I also advocate, and did so on the platform committee, for
> children to not have their basic rights trampled, not even by
> parent's. I mentioned that I'd spent time volunteering as a CASA
> (Court Appointed Special Advocate) and saw cases of child abuse and
> neglect. I told how I'd worked in a children's hospital and saw
> horrific cases of child abuse. There is so much of this, if one works
> or volunteers in these areas, at first it's shocking to see.
> 
> I regularly explain to people that children are individuals, and have
> rights. Children aren't property.
> 
> With that said, I don't support this resolution, for many of the same
> reasons mentioned by others. But, also because rights don't need to be
> delineated by age.  Rights are for everyone.  Adults, parents, and
> children...all people.
> 
> While I appreciate Jeff Lyon's passion about a horrible practice he's
> recently learned about, there are many horrible practices that people
> do to children.  Do we grab one horrible practice because it's
> recently in the news, and tout that as something we're against? Yes,
> we're against people using aggression against others. That's a central
> part of our platform. Do we spell out each incident and type of
> aggression? I don't think that's the way to go.
> 
> Nor, do I think we need a children's rights statement. ALL people have 
> rights.
> 
> I'd try like hell to stop someone from torturing a child.
> Unfortunately, this resolution doesn't do that.
> 
> EVH
> 
> ---
> Elizabeth Van Horn
> LNC Region 3 (IN, MI, OH, KY)
> 
> 
> On 2019-04-11 10:32, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
>> Wow that is an angle I had not considered but that conforms to my 
>> thoughts
>> that we address this as a children’s rights issue.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 5:52 AM Susan Hogarth via Lnc-business <
>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> This resolution certainly is hard to speak against. But I will.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  I feel this is problematic for us as a political party. We should be
>>> addressing the role of the state in people’s lives, not weighing in 
>>> on
>>> practices individuals choose.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Absolutely we are against individuals aggressing against others, but 
>>> I
>>> don’t think it makes sense for us *as a political party* to issue
>>> statements condemning individual aggressions. Especially in the case 
>>> where
>>> legislation to ban such practices is under discussion, this makes it 
>>> seem
>>> as if we support state bans. (And guess what, harming people is 
>>> already
>>> illegal).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   Susan Jane Hogarth
>>> 
>>>   Region 5 Alternate
>>> 
>>>   919-906-2106 (tel:919-906-2106)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> >
>>> > On Apr 10, 2019 at 11:56 AM,  <Jeff Lyons via Lnc-business (mailto:
>>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org)>  wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >  Good Morning,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >  I found a subject that I do not believe our platform addresses clearly
>>> enough and there has been some debate internally and externally about 
>>> a
>>> recent decision in Massachusetts to ban Conversion Therapy for 
>>> Minors,
>>> because that might include government intervention into how parents 
>>> choose
>>> to raise children.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > After doing some research and speaking with members of the Libertarian
>>> Party who: have been personally exposed to this unwillingly as 
>>> children,
>>> were unable to communicate privately with their parents about the 
>>> true
>>> nature of this physical torture, were physically restrained and 
>>> beaten for
>>> attempting to be released from these concentration camps even upon 
>>> reaching
>>> adulthood, and their parents were convinced to sign their child up 
>>> for
>>> Social Security / Disability and pass that government money on to the
>>> Therapists to unwittingly pay for the indefinite treatment of 
>>> detained
>>> children, even into adulthood, with absolutely no achievable 
>>> criterion for
>>> patients to win back their freedom; I am DEEPLY disturbed that such a 
>>> thing
>>> is still ongoing in modern America.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Therefore, I will propose the following resolution. I hope you will
>>> co-sponsor and I welcome any input and revision that will more 
>>> strongly
>>> codify the Libertarian Party stance in SUPPORT of LGBTQ+ communities 
>>> and
>>> AGAINST torture and involuntary detainment.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Draft:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > "WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party asserts that all individuals have the
>>> right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the 
>>> right to
>>> live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly
>>> interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner 
>>> they
>>> choose;
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > WHEREAS, parents, or other guardians, have the right to raise their
>>> children according to their own standards and beliefs, provided that 
>>> the
>>> rights of children to be free from abuse and neglect are also 
>>> protected;
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > WHEREAS, Conversion therapy for sexual orientation is now considered
>>> unethical by both The American Psychiatric Association and The 
>>> American
>>> Academy of Child  &  Adolescent Psychiatry;
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > WHEREAS, the Supreme Court has declined to review and shown no concern
>>> with the decision of the U.S. Court of Appeals in the 3rd and 9th 
>>> Circuits
>>> which have upheld the Ban on Conversion Therapy for Minors, and 
>>> upheld the
>>> decision of a lower court in New Jersey where a 12-person jury 
>>> unanimously
>>> declared it "Consumer Fraud".
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > WHEREAS, conversion therapy has been experimented in the past as a form
>>> of punishment for homosexuality, and there has been no evidence 
>>> whatsoever
>>> that conversion therapy can successfully alter the gender identity or
>>> sexual orientation of unwilling participants;
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > WHEREAS, children are often subjected to conversion therapy against
>>> their will by loving parents whom are unaware that the methods used 
>>> in
>>> conversion therapy are extremely forceful and abusive, often 
>>> utilizing
>>> psychological torture, physical punishment, starvation, aversive
>>> treatments, and public shaming or embarrassing a child whenever they
>>> display undesired behaviors, and that conversion therapy has been 
>>> shown to
>>> result in suicide attempts by 20% of these patients: a five-fold 
>>> increase
>>> in risk of suicide attempts compared to other teens;
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, Conversion therapy, also called "reparative
>>> therapy," "reorientation therapy," or "ex-gay therapy" constitutes 
>>> consumer
>>> fraud and forceful abuse, which the Libertarian Party opposes.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > FURTHER, BE IT RESOLVED, the Libertarian Party opposes subjecting
>>> unwilling participants through force or coercion, especially 
>>> children, to
>>> conversion therapy treatment or other forms of counseling expressly
>>> designed to alter their gender identity, sexual orientation, or 
>>> hormonal
>>> balance."
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Thank you for all you do for the Liberty of others and I believe in this
>>> case there are some who sorely need our help.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Thank you.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Very Respectfully,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Jeff Lyons
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > LNC Region 8 Alternate
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Get Outlook for Android
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >