[Lnc-business] Resolution Condemning Conversion Therapies
Caryn Ann Harlos
caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
Fri Apr 12 06:37:50 EDT 2019
I have proposed off list to the current sponsors wording that does not call
for more laws.
On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 1:43 AM Susan Hogarth via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> I think tying this to *increased state action* is a huge mistake. Do we
> really want the LP calling for government to ‘do something’? If it’s
> torture, then existing laws pretty much cover that, I imagine.
>
>
>
> Also, if we’re condemning ‘conversion therapy’, we maybe ought to be
> condemning the practice of medical sex reassignment of children. My guess
> is that in a few years that will be seen as just as abusive as conversion
> therapy, and for many of the same reasons.
>
>
>
> J B-H writes “I understand and respect those who prefer the LNC
> generally not take policy positions on anything, or at least things outside
> of ballot access and electoral issues.”
>
>
>
> That is absolutely not my problem with this. My problem is that it is
> encouraging the state *to act*, and I think most if not all of our
> political statements should be in support of *discouraging* state action,
> not *asking the state to take action*.
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Susan Jane Hogarth
>
> Region 5 Alternate
>
> 919-906-2106 (tel:919-906-2106)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > On Apr 11, 2019 at 2:25 PM, <Tim Hagan via Lnc-business (mailto:
> lnc-business at hq.lp.org)> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Is there a list of states considering bans and the bill numbers?
> > Normally I'm apathetic about resolutions that mostly repeat what the
> > Platform already states. However, this could be productive if it's tied
> > to an action plan for the LNC to support state affiliates in changing
> > public policy.
> >
> > ---
> > Tim Hagan
> > Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee
> >
> > On 2019-04-11 10:30, Joe Bishop-Henchman via Lnc-business wrote:
> > > To Ms. Van Horn, A difference I see is that this particular issue is
> a
> > > topic on the state legislative agenda this year. 5 states have
> passed
> > > bans on the practice and many others are considering them. I
> > > understand and respect those who prefer the LNC generally not take
> > > policy positions on anything, or at least things outside of ballot
> > > access and electoral issues. But if that's not a hard-and-fast rule,
> > > something under active consideration in multiple states would meet
> the
> > > test for me.
> > >
> > > To Ms. Harlos, I believe that deleting the language persuasive
> beyond
> > > Libertarians would make the resolution less effective in your stated
> > > goal of escaping background political noise. I myself would prefer
> > > that if we take positions on issues, we endorse specific bills or at
> > > least direct staff to distribute statements of support to
> legislators
> > > on specific bills on this topic. There will be few Libertarians
> among
> > > that audience and to be effective it needs to mix calls to a priori
> > > Libertarian principles with supporting evidence and information.
> > >
> > > JBH
> > >
> > > ------------
> > > Joe Bishop-Henchman
> > > LNC Member (At-Large)
> > > joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
> > > www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
> > >
> > > On 2019-04-11 12:08, Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business wrote:
> > >> When I was on the 2018 LP Platform committee I argued against a
> > >> proposed 'Parent's rights" type plank. The reason was that it was
> the
> > >> type of idea that says parent's have the "right" to do, and make
> all
> > >> kinds of choices regarding their children, and it was a problem
> with
> > >> the wording and intent which can be misconstrued.
> > >>
> > >> As a parent, I agree that parent's have the "right", for a better
> > >> word, to be able to make many choices concerning their children.
> > >>
> > >> But, I also advocate, and did so on the platform committee, for
> > >> children to not have their basic rights trampled, not even by
> > >> parent's. I mentioned that I'd spent time volunteering as a CASA
> > >> (Court Appointed Special Advocate) and saw cases of child abuse and
> > >> neglect. I told how I'd worked in a children's hospital and saw
> > >> horrific cases of child abuse. There is so much of this, if one
> works
> > >> or volunteers in these areas, at first it's shocking to see.
> > >>
> > >> I regularly explain to people that children are individuals, and
> have
> > >> rights. Children aren't property.
> > >>
> > >> With that said, I don't support this resolution, for many of the
> same
> > >> reasons mentioned by others. But, also because rights don't need to
> be
> > >> delineated by age. Rights are for everyone. Adults, parents, and
> > >> children...all people.
> > >>
> > >> While I appreciate Jeff Lyon's passion about a horrible practice
> he's
> > >> recently learned about, there are many horrible practices that
> people
> > >> do to children. Do we grab one horrible practice because it's
> > >> recently in the news, and tout that as something we're against?
> Yes,
> > >> we're against people using aggression against others. That's a
> central
> > >> part of our platform. Do we spell out each incident and type of
> > >> aggression? I don't think that's the way to go.
> > >>
> > >> Nor, do I think we need a children's rights statement. ALL people
> have
> > >> rights.
> > >>
> > >> I'd try like hell to stop someone from torturing a child.
> > >> Unfortunately, this resolution doesn't do that.
> > >>
> > >> EVH
> > >>
> > >> ---
> > >> Elizabeth Van Horn
> > >> LNC Region 3 (IN, MI, OH, KY)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 2019-04-11 10:32, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
> > >>> Wow that is an angle I had not considered but that conforms to my
> > >>> thoughts
> > >>> that we address this as a children’s rights issue.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 5:52 AM Susan Hogarth via Lnc-business <
> > >>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> This resolution certainly is hard to speak against. But I will.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I feel this is problematic for us as a political party. We should
> > >>>> be
> > >>>> addressing the role of the state in people’s lives, not weighing
> in
> > >>>> on
> > >>>> practices individuals choose.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Absolutely we are against individuals aggressing against others,
> but
> > >>>> I
> > >>>> don’t think it makes sense for us *as a political party* to issue
> > >>>> statements condemning individual aggressions. Especially in the
> case
> > >>>> where
> > >>>> legislation to ban such practices is under discussion, this makes
> it
> > >>>> seem
> > >>>> as if we support state bans. (And guess what, harming people is
> > >>>> already
> > >>>> illegal).
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Susan Jane Hogarth
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Region 5 Alternate
> > >>>>
> > >>>> 919-906-2106 (tel:919-906-2106)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > On Apr 10, 2019 at 11:56 AM, <Jeff Lyons via Lnc-business
> (mailto:
> > >>>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org)> wrote:
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Good Morning,
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > I found a subject that I do not believe our platform addresses
> clearly
> > >>>> enough and there has been some debate internally and externally
> > >>>> about a
> > >>>> recent decision in Massachusetts to ban Conversion Therapy for
> > >>>> Minors,
> > >>>> because that might include government intervention into how
> parents
> > >>>> choose
> > >>>> to raise children.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > After doing some research and speaking with members of the
> Libertarian
> > >>>> Party who: have been personally exposed to this unwillingly as
> > >>>> children,
> > >>>> were unable to communicate privately with their parents about the
> > >>>> true
> > >>>> nature of this physical torture, were physically restrained and
> > >>>> beaten for
> > >>>> attempting to be released from these concentration camps even
> upon
> > >>>> reaching
> > >>>> adulthood, and their parents were convinced to sign their child
> up
> > >>>> for
> > >>>> Social Security / Disability and pass that government money on to
> > >>>> the
> > >>>> Therapists to unwittingly pay for the indefinite treatment of
> > >>>> detained
> > >>>> children, even into adulthood, with absolutely no achievable
> > >>>> criterion for
> > >>>> patients to win back their freedom; I am DEEPLY disturbed that
> such
> > >>>> a thing
> > >>>> is still ongoing in modern America.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Therefore, I will propose the following resolution. I hope you
> will
> > >>>> co-sponsor and I welcome any input and revision that will more
> > >>>> strongly
> > >>>> codify the Libertarian Party stance in SUPPORT of LGBTQ+
> communities
> > >>>> and
> > >>>> AGAINST torture and involuntary detainment.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Draft:
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > "WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party asserts that all individuals
> have the
> > >>>> right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have
> the
> > >>>> right to
> > >>>> live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not
> forcibly
> > >>>> interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever
> manner
> > >>>> they
> > >>>> choose;
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > WHEREAS, parents, or other guardians, have the right to raise
> their
> > >>>> children according to their own standards and beliefs, provided
> that
> > >>>> the
> > >>>> rights of children to be free from abuse and neglect are also
> > >>>> protected;
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > WHEREAS, Conversion therapy for sexual orientation is now
> considered
> > >>>> unethical by both The American Psychiatric Association and The
> > >>>> American
> > >>>> Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry;
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > WHEREAS, the Supreme Court has declined to review and shown no
> concern
> > >>>> with the decision of the U.S. Court of Appeals in the 3rd and 9th
> > >>>> Circuits
> > >>>> which have upheld the Ban on Conversion Therapy for Minors, and
> > >>>> upheld the
> > >>>> decision of a lower court in New Jersey where a 12-person jury
> > >>>> unanimously
> > >>>> declared it "Consumer Fraud".
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > WHEREAS, conversion therapy has been experimented in the past
> as a form
> > >>>> of punishment for homosexuality, and there has been no evidence
> > >>>> whatsoever
> > >>>> that conversion therapy can successfully alter the gender
> identity
> > >>>> or
> > >>>> sexual orientation of unwilling participants;
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > WHEREAS, children are often subjected to conversion therapy
> against
> > >>>> their will by loving parents whom are unaware that the methods
> used
> > >>>> in
> > >>>> conversion therapy are extremely forceful and abusive, often
> > >>>> utilizing
> > >>>> psychological torture, physical punishment, starvation, aversive
> > >>>> treatments, and public shaming or embarrassing a child whenever
> they
> > >>>> display undesired behaviors, and that conversion therapy has been
> > >>>> shown to
> > >>>> result in suicide attempts by 20% of these patients: a five-fold
> > >>>> increase
> > >>>> in risk of suicide attempts compared to other teens;
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, Conversion therapy, also called
> "reparative
> > >>>> therapy," "reorientation therapy," or "ex-gay therapy"
> constitutes
> > >>>> consumer
> > >>>> fraud and forceful abuse, which the Libertarian Party opposes.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > FURTHER, BE IT RESOLVED, the Libertarian Party opposes
> subjecting
> > >>>> unwilling participants through force or coercion, especially
> > >>>> children, to
> > >>>> conversion therapy treatment or other forms of counseling
> expressly
> > >>>> designed to alter their gender identity, sexual orientation, or
> > >>>> hormonal
> > >>>> balance."
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Thank you for all you do for the Liberty of others and I
> believe in this
> > >>>> case there are some who sorely need our help.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Thank you.
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Very Respectfully,
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Jeff Lyons
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > LNC Region 8 Alternate
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> > Get Outlook for Android
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> > >>>> >
> >
> >
>
--
* In Liberty,*
*Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *- Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
*Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
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