[Lnc-business] Resolution Condemning Conversion Therapies

Caryn Ann Harlos caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
Fri Apr 12 06:37:50 EDT 2019


I have proposed off list to the current sponsors wording that does not call
for more laws.

On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 1:43 AM Susan Hogarth via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:

>
>
>
>  I think tying this to *increased state action* is a huge mistake. Do we
> really want the LP calling for government to ‘do something’? If it’s
> torture, then existing laws pretty much cover that, I imagine.
>
>
>
> Also, if we’re condemning ‘conversion therapy’, we maybe ought to be
> condemning the practice of medical sex reassignment of children. My guess
> is that in a few years that will be seen as just as abusive as conversion
> therapy, and for many of the same reasons.
>
>
>
> J B-H writes “I   understand and respect those who prefer the LNC
> generally not take policy positions on anything, or at least things outside
> of ballot access and electoral issues.”
>
>
>
>  That is absolutely not my problem with this. My problem is that it is
> encouraging the state *to act*, and I think most if not all of our
> political statements should be in support of *discouraging* state action,
> not *asking the state to take action*.
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>   Susan Jane Hogarth
>
>   Region 5 Alternate
>
>   919-906-2106 (tel:919-906-2106)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > On Apr 11, 2019 at 2:25 PM,  <Tim Hagan via Lnc-business (mailto:
> lnc-business at hq.lp.org)>  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >  Is there a list of states considering bans and the bill numbers?
> > Normally I'm apathetic about resolutions that mostly repeat what the
> > Platform already states. However, this could be productive if it's tied
> > to an action plan for the LNC to support state affiliates in changing
> > public policy.
> >
> > ---
> > Tim Hagan
> > Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee
> >
> > On 2019-04-11 10:30, Joe Bishop-Henchman via Lnc-business wrote:
> > >  To Ms. Van Horn, A difference I see is that this particular issue is
> a
> > >  topic on the state legislative agenda this year. 5 states have
> passed
> > >  bans on the practice and many others are considering them. I
> > >  understand and respect those who prefer the LNC generally not take
> > >  policy positions on anything, or at least things outside of ballot
> > >  access and electoral issues. But if that's not a hard-and-fast rule,
> > >  something under active consideration in multiple states would meet
> the
> > >  test for me.
> > >
> > >  To Ms. Harlos, I believe that deleting the language persuasive
> beyond
> > >  Libertarians would make the resolution less effective in your stated
> > >  goal of escaping background political noise. I myself would prefer
> > >  that if we take positions on issues, we endorse specific bills or at
> > >  least direct staff to distribute statements of support to
> legislators
> > >  on specific bills on this topic. There will be few Libertarians
> among
> > >  that audience and to be effective it needs to mix calls to a priori
> > >  Libertarian principles with supporting evidence and information.
> > >
> > >  JBH
> > >
> > >  ------------
> > >  Joe Bishop-Henchman
> > >  LNC Member (At-Large)
> > >  joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
> > >  www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
> > >
> > >  On 2019-04-11 12:08, Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business wrote:
> > >>  When I was on the 2018 LP Platform committee I argued against a
> > >>  proposed 'Parent's rights" type plank. The reason was that it was
> the
> > >>  type of idea that says parent's have the "right" to do, and make
> all
> > >>  kinds of choices regarding their children, and it was a problem
> with
> > >>  the wording and intent which can be misconstrued.
> > >>
> > >>  As a parent, I agree that parent's have the "right", for a better
> > >>  word, to be able to make many choices concerning their children.
> > >>
> > >>  But, I also advocate, and did so on the platform committee, for
> > >>  children to not have their basic rights trampled, not even by
> > >>  parent's. I mentioned that I'd spent time volunteering as a CASA
> > >>  (Court Appointed Special Advocate) and saw cases of child abuse and
> > >>  neglect. I told how I'd worked in a children's hospital and saw
> > >>  horrific cases of child abuse. There is so much of this, if one
> works
> > >>  or volunteers in these areas, at first it's shocking to see.
> > >>
> > >>  I regularly explain to people that children are individuals, and
> have
> > >>  rights. Children aren't property.
> > >>
> > >>  With that said, I don't support this resolution, for many of the
> same
> > >>  reasons mentioned by others. But, also because rights don't need to
> be
> > >>  delineated by age. Rights are for everyone. Adults, parents, and
> > >>  children...all people.
> > >>
> > >>  While I appreciate Jeff Lyon's passion about a horrible practice
> he's
> > >>  recently learned about, there are many horrible practices that
> people
> > >>  do to children. Do we grab one horrible practice because it's
> > >>  recently in the news, and tout that as something we're against?
> Yes,
> > >>  we're against people using aggression against others. That's a
> central
> > >>  part of our platform. Do we spell out each incident and type of
> > >>  aggression? I don't think that's the way to go.
> > >>
> > >>  Nor, do I think we need a children's rights statement. ALL people
> have
> > >>  rights.
> > >>
> > >>  I'd try like hell to stop someone from torturing a child.
> > >>  Unfortunately, this resolution doesn't do that.
> > >>
> > >>  EVH
> > >>
> > >>  ---
> > >>  Elizabeth Van Horn
> > >>  LNC Region 3 (IN, MI, OH, KY)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>  On 2019-04-11 10:32, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
> > >>>  Wow that is an angle I had not considered but that conforms to my
> > >>>  thoughts
> > >>>  that we address this as a children’s rights issue.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>  On Thu, Apr 11, 2019 at 5:52 AM Susan Hogarth via Lnc-business  <
> > >>>  lnc-business at hq.lp.org>  wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  This resolution certainly is hard to speak against. But I will.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  I feel this is problematic for us as a political party. We should
> > >>>>  be
> > >>>>  addressing the role of the state in people’s lives, not weighing
> in
> > >>>>  on
> > >>>>  practices individuals choose.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  Absolutely we are against individuals aggressing against others,
> but
> > >>>>  I
> > >>>>  don’t think it makes sense for us *as a political party* to issue
> > >>>>  statements condemning individual aggressions. Especially in the
> case
> > >>>>  where
> > >>>>  legislation to ban such practices is under discussion, this makes
> it
> > >>>>  seem
> > >>>>  as if we support state bans. (And guess what, harming people is
> > >>>>  already
> > >>>>  illegal).
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  Susan Jane Hogarth
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  Region 5 Alternate
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  919-906-2106 (tel:919-906-2106)
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >  On Apr 10, 2019 at 11:56 AM,  <Jeff Lyons via Lnc-business
> (mailto:
> > >>>>  lnc-business at hq.lp.org)>  wrote:
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >  Good Morning,
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >  I found a subject that I do not believe our platform addresses
> clearly
> > >>>>  enough and there has been some debate internally and externally
> > >>>>  about a
> > >>>>  recent decision in Massachusetts to ban Conversion Therapy for
> > >>>>  Minors,
> > >>>>  because that might include government intervention into how
> parents
> > >>>>  choose
> > >>>>  to raise children.
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >  After doing some research and speaking with members of the
> Libertarian
> > >>>>  Party who: have been personally exposed to this unwillingly as
> > >>>>  children,
> > >>>>  were unable to communicate privately with their parents about the
> > >>>>  true
> > >>>>  nature of this physical torture, were physically restrained and
> > >>>>  beaten for
> > >>>>  attempting to be released from these concentration camps even
> upon
> > >>>>  reaching
> > >>>>  adulthood, and their parents were convinced to sign their child
> up
> > >>>>  for
> > >>>>  Social Security / Disability and pass that government money on to
> > >>>>  the
> > >>>>  Therapists to unwittingly pay for the indefinite treatment of
> > >>>>  detained
> > >>>>  children, even into adulthood, with absolutely no achievable
> > >>>>  criterion for
> > >>>>  patients to win back their freedom; I am DEEPLY disturbed that
> such
> > >>>>  a thing
> > >>>>  is still ongoing in modern America.
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >  Therefore, I will propose the following resolution. I hope you
> will
> > >>>>  co-sponsor and I welcome any input and revision that will more
> > >>>>  strongly
> > >>>>  codify the Libertarian Party stance in SUPPORT of LGBTQ+
> communities
> > >>>>  and
> > >>>>  AGAINST torture and involuntary detainment.
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >  Draft:
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >  "WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party asserts that all individuals
> have the
> > >>>>  right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have
> the
> > >>>>  right to
> > >>>>  live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not
> forcibly
> > >>>>  interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever
> manner
> > >>>>  they
> > >>>>  choose;
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >  WHEREAS, parents, or other guardians, have the right to raise
> their
> > >>>>  children according to their own standards and beliefs, provided
> that
> > >>>>  the
> > >>>>  rights of children to be free from abuse and neglect are also
> > >>>>  protected;
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >  WHEREAS, Conversion therapy for sexual orientation is now
> considered
> > >>>>  unethical by both The American Psychiatric Association and The
> > >>>>  American
> > >>>>  Academy of Child  &  Adolescent Psychiatry;
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >  WHEREAS, the Supreme Court has declined to review and shown no
> concern
> > >>>>  with the decision of the U.S. Court of Appeals in the 3rd and 9th
> > >>>>  Circuits
> > >>>>  which have upheld the Ban on Conversion Therapy for Minors, and
> > >>>>  upheld the
> > >>>>  decision of a lower court in New Jersey where a 12-person jury
> > >>>>  unanimously
> > >>>>  declared it "Consumer Fraud".
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >  WHEREAS, conversion therapy has been experimented in the past
> as a form
> > >>>>  of punishment for homosexuality, and there has been no evidence
> > >>>>  whatsoever
> > >>>>  that conversion therapy can successfully alter the gender
> identity
> > >>>>  or
> > >>>>  sexual orientation of unwilling participants;
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >  WHEREAS, children are often subjected to conversion therapy
> against
> > >>>>  their will by loving parents whom are unaware that the methods
> used
> > >>>>  in
> > >>>>  conversion therapy are extremely forceful and abusive, often
> > >>>>  utilizing
> > >>>>  psychological torture, physical punishment, starvation, aversive
> > >>>>  treatments, and public shaming or embarrassing a child whenever
> they
> > >>>>  display undesired behaviors, and that conversion therapy has been
> > >>>>  shown to
> > >>>>  result in suicide attempts by 20% of these patients: a five-fold
> > >>>>  increase
> > >>>>  in risk of suicide attempts compared to other teens;
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >  THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, Conversion therapy, also called
> "reparative
> > >>>>  therapy," "reorientation therapy," or "ex-gay therapy"
> constitutes
> > >>>>  consumer
> > >>>>  fraud and forceful abuse, which the Libertarian Party opposes.
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >  FURTHER, BE IT RESOLVED, the Libertarian Party opposes
> subjecting
> > >>>>  unwilling participants through force or coercion, especially
> > >>>>  children, to
> > >>>>  conversion therapy treatment or other forms of counseling
> expressly
> > >>>>  designed to alter their gender identity, sexual orientation, or
> > >>>>  hormonal
> > >>>>  balance."
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >  Thank you for all you do for the Liberty of others and I
> believe in this
> > >>>>  case there are some who sorely need our help.
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >  Thank you.
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >  Very Respectfully,
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >  Jeff Lyons
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >  LNC Region 8 Alternate
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >  Get Outlook for Android
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> > >>>>   >
> >
> >
>
-- 

*  In Liberty,*

*Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *- Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
*Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/

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