[Lnc-business] Resolution Condemning Conversion Therapies
Jeff Lyons
jeff.lyons at lp.org
Mon Apr 15 13:20:52 EDT 2019
The Libertarian Platform explicitly states that we are in favor of laws that outlaw physical force and aggression. I agree with Mr. JBH, we should not be scared of not being anarchist enough to advocate for protecting people from fraud, abuse, and involuntary detainment. We are anti-aggression, not anti-justice.
-Jeff Lyons
Get Outlook for Android
On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 12:40 PM -0400, "Joe Bishop-Henchman via Lnc-business" <lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
If it is the language, I will be voting no.
The whereas clauses are fine, the second resolved clause is fine. But
the first resolved clause has now been rewritten to suggest that these
new state laws are unnecessary, and that existing laws against fraud
etc. are sufficient to stop involuntary conversion therapy on youth.
This is the same argument being used by those fighting these laws and
seeking to protect these "treatments" from being halted.
Ms. Harlos has acknowledged that she wrote the language this way because
she thinks existing laws are adequate for a priori libertarian
principles reasons. Everyone who works in this area will tell you that's
not the case, that existing laws are not doing the job and this
legislation is needed to get kids out of these sessions. An earlier
version affirmatively endorsed these new state laws, but now this
version implies the opposite.
I'd rather we say nothing that give ammunition to the people looking to
keep kids in these conversion treatments, which is what this resolution
now does. I ask the sponsors to either revert the resolved clause to the
earlier version, or for my colleagues to vote this down.
JBH
------------
Joe Bishop-Henchman
LNC Member (At-Large)
joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
On 2019-04-15 12:31, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
> The alternate language has enough co-sponsors and unless there is some
> objection, I will be starting the ballot today.
>
> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 4:26 PM Jeff Lyons via Lnc-business <
> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
>> Good afternoon,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It's been brought to my attention that the Conversion Therapy
>> Bill in
>> MA will be challenged on "Free Speech" First Amendment grounds. The
>> group
>> challenging it separates "aversive" and "talk" therapy, stating they
>> oppose
>> the former but support the latter.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> As predicted, this issue will become a hotly contested debate. I hope
>> that we can adopt a stance that is not only definisible and aligns
>> with
>> libertarian values, but will easy to communicate to regular folks and
>> takes
>> advantage of the situation to recruit and convert new Libertarians.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.masslive.com/news/2019/04/massachusetts-conversion-therapy-ban-will-be-challenged-in-court.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The challengers, Massachusetts Family Institute, awarded me it's
>> annual
>> Citizenship Award for fighting for Freedom of Speech last October. I
>> both
>> fiercely promote Freedom of Speech for all and I denounce involuntary
>> detainment of unwilling persons to force them to listen to speech that
>> disrespects their right to live their life freely, love who they love,
>> and
>> their liberty to identify themselves as they choose. I believe the
>> Libertarian Party should adopt this stance and advocate for the rights
>> of
>> underaged LGBTQ+ / GSM youth.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Jeff Lyons
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Get Outlook for Android
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 10:06 AM -0400, "Caryn Ann Harlos" <
>> caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Alternates cannot co-sponsor (praying to all the gods that a new
>> tsunami
>> is nit coming)
>> On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 7:02 AM Jeff Lyons wrote:
>> In the absence of Mr. ODonnell I will co-sponsor the newest version of
>> the
>> motion.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for all the hard work crafting the language, I hope we get
>> 2/3s.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -Jeff Lyons
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Get Outlook for Android
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 7:38 PM -0400, "Caryn Ann Harlos via
>> Lnc-business"
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Ahh but he is an alternate and cannot sponsor
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 5:31 PM Richard Longstreth <
>> richard.longstreth at lp.org> wrote:
>>
>> > Time stamp 1037 today in this thread.
>> >
>> >
>> > Richard Longstreth
>> > Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY)
>> > Libertarian National Committee
>> > richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> > 931.538.9300
>> >
>> > Sent from my Mobile Device
>> >
>> > On Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 14:22 Caryn Ann Harlos
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> I don’t see where he has agreed to my wording
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 3:14 PM Richard Longstreth <
>> >> richard.longstreth at lp.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I believe Lyons as well.
>> >>>
>> >>> Richard Longstreth
>> >>> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY)
>> >>> Libertarian National Committee
>> >>> richard.longstreth at lp.org
>> >>> 931.538.9300
>> >>>
>> >>> Sent from my Mobile Device
>> >>>
>> >>> On Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 11:26 Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
>> >>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> I sponsor.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> So we have me, Phillips, Longstreth
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Mr Smith can you agree to this one? Or Mr Merced?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I’m at the AR convention so might be a little slow
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 1:00 PM John Phillips
>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> > *Mr Lyons. Sorry Jeff, trying to go to fast.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > John Phillips
>> >>>> > Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
>> >>>> > Cell 217-412-5973
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > On Apr 12, 2019 12:22 PM, John Phillips via Lnc-business <
>> >>>> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > She did, and she also helped Mr Lynch with his.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > Absolutely. Safe Travels.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > Here is Ms Harlos' tweaked alternate proposal.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > "WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party asserts that all individuals have
>> the
>> >>>> > right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the
>> >>>> right to
>> >>>> > live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not forcibly
>> >>>> > interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner
>> >>>> they
>> >>>> > choose;
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > WHEREAS while children have not reached sufficient maturity to be
>> the
>> >>>> full
>> >>>> > custodian of their rights which are entrusted to their parents or
>> >>>> > guardians, their rights to bodily integrity and personal
>> >>>> identification of
>> >>>> > their growing awareness of who they are inalienable and coerced
>> >>>> action that
>> >>>> > would fundamentally deny these rights is abusive;
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > WHEREAS, parents, or other guardians, have the right to raise their
>> >>>> > children according to their own standards and beliefs, provided that
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> > rights of children to be free from abuse and neglect are also
>> >>>> protected;
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > WHEREAS, conversion therapy has been used in the past as a form of
>> >>>> > punishment for homosexuality and gender identity which does not
>> >>>> conform to
>> >>>> > traditional expectations; and the rights to gender and sexual
>> >>>> identity are
>> >>>> > fundamental rights;
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > WHEREAS, this conversion therapy has it's roots in unethical
>> treatment
>> >>>> > used since the 70's in issues such as drug use, psychiatric
>> >>>> disorders, and
>> >>>> > learning disabilities, that describe humiliation, sleep deprivation,
>> >>>> sexual
>> >>>> > abuse, starvation, and isolation as "treatment techniques", methods
>> >>>> that in
>> >>>> > any other pursuit are considered cruel and unusual punishment and
>> >>>> torture;
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > WHEREAS, children are often subjected to this type of therapy
>> against
>> >>>> > their will, even by loving and well-intentioned parents who are
>> >>>> unaware
>> >>>> > that the methods used in conversion therapy are extremely forceful
>> and
>> >>>> > abusive;
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > WHEREAS, any therapy similar to this has been shown to result in
>> >>>> suicide
>> >>>> > attempts by 20% of these patients: a five-fold increase in the risk
>> of
>> >>>> > suicide attempts compared to other teens, increases that are the
>> same
>> >>>> as
>> >>>> > other victims of repeated abuse, an increased risk that continues
>> >>>> through
>> >>>> > later life;
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that therapy modeled off these abusive
>> >>>> > institutions, protected and/or funded by the State, constitutes
>> >>>> consumer
>> >>>> > fraud and forceful abuse, which the Libertarian Party opposes.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > FURTHER, BE IT RESOLVED, the Libertarian Party opposes subjecting
>> >>>> > unwilling participants through force or coercion, especially
>> >>>> children, to
>> >>>> > any therapy that violates the non-aggression principle through any
>> >>>> method
>> >>>> > that would be considered abuse or torture."
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > John Phillips
>> >>>> > Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
>> >>>> > Cell 217-412-5973
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > On Apr 12, 2019 12:01 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos
>> >>>> > wrote:
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > Ms Lynch approved enthusiastically of the one I proposed. Mr.
>> >>>> Phillips,
>> >>>> > I’m in a plane right to - can you post mine for consideration.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 11:45 AM Jeff Lyons via Lnc-business <
>> >>>> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > I'd be open to broadening the scope to include things that Ms.
>> Lynch,
>> >>>> whom
>> >>>> > is an expert, wished to be included but I also want a resolution
>> that
>> >>>> is
>> >>>> > specific and impactful in creating conversations with young
>> rebellious
>> >>>> > future Libertarian voters.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > Thanks again John.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > -Jeff
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > Get Outlook for Android
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 12:21 PM -0400, "John Phillips" <
>> >>>> > john.phillips at lp.org> wrote:
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > I would support and co-sponsor EITHER resolution. The one Mr Lyons
>> >>>> and I
>> >>>> > worked on, or the one Ms Harlos authored and I tweaked just a bit.
>> >>>> Both
>> >>>> > are good, both address the needs in different ways, with different
>> >>>> pros and
>> >>>> > cons.
>> >>>> > The short answer is that this type of "therapy" is absolutely
>> >>>> negative and
>> >>>> > torturous to those forced into it. We should 100% be against both
>> >>>> torture
>> >>>> > and force, and are, so lets find a way to make this work.
>> >>>> > Perhaps Ms Harlos would share hers here for more discussion?
>> >>>> > I do not find the two mutually exclusive, and think even a
>> combination
>> >>>> > would work, tho perhaps be overly long.
>> >>>> > I know Ms Lynch has helped with both, and her input is more than
>> >>>> welcome.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > John Phillips
>> >>>> > Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
>> >>>> > Cell 217-412-5973
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > --
>> >>>> >
>> >>>>
>> >>> > * In Liberty,*
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > *Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *-
>> >>>> Caryn.Ann.
>> >>>> > Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>> >>>> > *Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
>> >>>> > Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
>> >>>> > facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>>
>> =========================================================================
>> >>>> > Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
>> >>>> Re-Legalize All
>> >>>> > Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun
>> Laws
>> >>>> *
>> >>>> > Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed *
>> >>>> End
>> >>>> > Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the
>> >>>> Income Tax
>> >>>> > * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency
>> >>>> Services
>> >>>> > * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private
>> Sector *
>> >>>> > Eliminate Regulation *
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > *VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org <
>> >>>> http://www.lp.org/>*
>> >>>> >
>> >>>>
>> =========================================================================
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > --
>> >>>>
>> >>>> * In Liberty,*
>> >>>>
>> >>>> *Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *-
>> >>>> Caryn.Ann.
>> >>>> Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>> >>>> *Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
>> >>>> Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
>> >>>> facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> =========================================================================
>> >>>> Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize
>> >>>> All
>> >>>> Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun Laws
>> *
>> >>>> Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed *
>> End
>> >>>> Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the Income
>> >>>> Tax
>> >>>> * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency
>> >>>> Services
>> >>>> * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private Sector *
>> >>>> Eliminate Regulation *
>> >>>>
>> >>>> *VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org <
>> >>>> http://www.lp.org/>*
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> =========================================================================
>> >>>>
>> >>> --
>> >>
>> >> * In Liberty,*
>> >>
>> >> *Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *-
>> Caryn.Ann.
>> >> Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>> >> *Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
>> >> Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
>> >> facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
>> >>
>> >>
>> =========================================================================
>> >> Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize
>> >> All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun
>> Laws *
>> >> Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed * End
>> >> Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the Income
>> Tax
>> >> * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency
>> Services
>> >> * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private Sector *
>> >> Eliminate Regulation *
>> >>
>> >> *VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org
>> >> *
>> >>
>> =========================================================================
>> >>
>> > --
>>
>> * In Liberty,*
>>
>> *Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *-
>> Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
>> *Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
>> Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
>> facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
>>
>> =========================================================================
>> Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize
>> All
>> Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun Laws
>> *
>> Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed *
>> End
>> Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the Income
>> Tax
>> * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency
>> Services
>> * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private Sector *
>> Eliminate Regulation *
>>
>> *VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org *
>> =========================================================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> In Liberty,
>> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
>> Secretary - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.Chair, LP
>> Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
>> Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
>> facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
>> =========================================================================Peaceful
>> Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize All
>> Drugs *
>> End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun Laws *
>> Abolish All
>> Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed * End Corporate
>> &
>> Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the Income Tax *
>> Privatize
>> Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency Services * Open
>> Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private Sector *
>> Eliminate
>> Regulation *
>> VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org
>> =========================================================================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> * In Liberty,*
>
> *Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *-
> Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.
> *Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
> Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
> facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
>
> =========================================================================
> Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize
> All
> Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun Laws *
> Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed * End
> Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the Income
> Tax
> * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency
> Services
> * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private Sector *
> Eliminate Regulation *
>
> *VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org
> *
> =========================================================================
More information about the Lnc-business
mailing list