[Lnc-business] Resolution Condemning Conversion Therapies

Mon Apr 15 13:28:27 EDT 2019

I think you misunderstood me.  I wrote it that way so e everyone can read
it to
Support what they want.  It does not exclude new laws.  It merely mentions
the wrong.

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 10:42 AM Joe Bishop-Henchman via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:

> If it is the language, I will be voting no.
>
> The whereas clauses are fine, the second resolved clause is fine. But
> the first resolved clause has now been rewritten to suggest that these
> new state laws are unnecessary, and that existing laws against fraud
> etc. are sufficient to stop involuntary conversion therapy on youth.
> This is the same argument being used by those fighting these laws and
> seeking to protect these "treatments" from being halted.
>
> Ms. Harlos has acknowledged that she wrote the language this way because
> she thinks existing laws are adequate for a priori libertarian
> principles reasons. Everyone who works in this area will tell you that's
> not the case, that existing laws are not doing the job and this
> legislation is needed to get kids out of these sessions. An earlier
> version affirmatively endorsed these new state laws, but now this
> version implies the opposite.
>
> I'd rather we say nothing that give ammunition to the people looking to
> keep kids in these conversion treatments, which is what this resolution
> now does. I ask the sponsors to either revert the resolved clause to the
> earlier version, or for my colleagues to vote this down.
>
> JBH
>
> ------------
> Joe Bishop-Henchman
> LNC Member (At-Large)
> joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org
> www.facebook.com/groups/189510455174837
>
> On 2019-04-15 12:31, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business wrote:
> > The alternate language has enough co-sponsors and unless there is some
> > objection, I will be starting the ballot today.
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 4:26 PM Jeff Lyons via Lnc-business <
> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Good afternoon,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>      It's been brought to my attention that the Conversion Therapy
> >> Bill in
> >> MA will be challenged on "Free Speech" First Amendment grounds.  The
> >> group
> >> challenging it separates "aversive" and "talk" therapy, stating they
> >> oppose
> >> the former but support the latter.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> As predicted, this issue will become a hotly contested debate.  I hope
> >> that we can adopt a stance that is not only definisible and aligns
> >> with
> >> libertarian values, but will easy to communicate to regular folks and
> >> takes
> >> advantage of the situation to recruit and convert new Libertarians.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://www.masslive.com/news/2019/04/massachusetts-conversion-therapy-ban-will-be-challenged-in-court.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The challengers, Massachusetts Family Institute, awarded me it's
> >> annual
> >> Citizenship Award for fighting for Freedom of Speech last October.  I
> >> both
> >> fiercely promote Freedom of Speech for all and I denounce involuntary
> >> detainment of unwilling persons to force them to listen to speech that
> >> disrespects their right to live their life freely, love who they love,
> >> and
> >> their liberty to identify themselves as they choose.  I believe the
> >> Libertarian Party should adopt this stance and advocate for the rights
> >> of
> >> underaged LGBTQ+ / GSM youth.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Jeff Lyons
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Get Outlook for Android
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 10:06 AM -0400, "Caryn Ann Harlos" <
> >> caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Alternates cannot co-sponsor (praying to all the gods that a new
> >> tsunami
> >> is nit coming)
> >> On Sat, Apr 13, 2019 at 7:02 AM Jeff Lyons <jeff.lyons at lp.org> wrote:
> >> In the absence of Mr. ODonnell I will co-sponsor the newest version of
> >> the
> >> motion.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks for all the hard work crafting the language, I hope we get
> >> 2/3s.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Jeff Lyons
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Get Outlook for Android
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 7:38 PM -0400, "Caryn Ann Harlos via
> >> Lnc-business"
> >> <lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Ahh but he is an alternate and cannot sponsor
> >>
> >> On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 5:31 PM Richard Longstreth <
> >> richard.longstreth at lp.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Time stamp 1037 today in this thread.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Richard Longstreth
> >> > Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY)
> >> > Libertarian National Committee
> >> > richard.longstreth at lp.org
> >> > 931.538.9300
> >> >
> >> > Sent from my Mobile Device
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 14:22 Caryn Ann Harlos
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I don’t see where he has agreed to my wording
> >> >>
> >> >> On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 3:14 PM Richard Longstreth <
> >> >> richard.longstreth at lp.org> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> I believe Lyons as well.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Richard Longstreth
> >> >>> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA, WY)
> >> >>> Libertarian National Committee
> >> >>> richard.longstreth at lp.org
> >> >>> 931.538.9300
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sent from my Mobile Device
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Fri, Apr 12, 2019, 11:26 Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
> >> >>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> I sponsor.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> So we have me, Phillips, Longstreth
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Mr Smith can you agree to this one?  Or Mr Merced?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I’m at the AR convention so might be a little slow
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 1:00 PM John Phillips
> >> >>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> > *Mr Lyons.  Sorry Jeff, trying to go to fast.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > John Phillips
> >> >>>> > Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
> >> >>>> > Cell 217-412-5973
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > On Apr 12, 2019 12:22 PM, John Phillips via Lnc-business <
> >> >>>> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > She did, and she also helped Mr Lynch with his.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > Absolutely.  Safe Travels.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > Here is Ms Harlos' tweaked alternate proposal.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > "WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party asserts that all individuals have
> >> the
> >> >>>> > right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have
> the
> >> >>>> right to
> >> >>>> > live in whatever manner they choose, so long as they do not
> forcibly
> >> >>>> > interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever
> manner
> >> >>>> they
> >> >>>> > choose;
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > WHEREAS while children have not reached sufficient maturity to be
> >> the
> >> >>>> full
> >> >>>> > custodian of their rights which are entrusted to their parents or
> >> >>>> > guardians, their rights to bodily integrity and personal
> >> >>>> identification of
> >> >>>> > their growing awareness of who they are inalienable and coerced
> >> >>>> action that
> >> >>>> > would fundamentally deny these rights is abusive;
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > WHEREAS, parents, or other guardians, have the right to raise
> their
> >> >>>> > children according to their own standards and beliefs, provided
> that
> >> >>>> the
> >> >>>> > rights of children to be free from abuse and neglect are also
> >> >>>> protected;
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > WHEREAS, conversion therapy has been used in the past as a form
> of
> >> >>>> > punishment for homosexuality and gender identity which does not
> >> >>>> conform to
> >> >>>> > traditional expectations; and the rights to gender and sexual
> >> >>>> identity are
> >> >>>> > fundamental rights;
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > WHEREAS, this conversion therapy has it's roots in unethical
> >> treatment
> >> >>>> > used since the 70's in issues such as drug use, psychiatric
> >> >>>> disorders, and
> >> >>>> > learning disabilities, that describe humiliation, sleep
> deprivation,
> >> >>>> sexual
> >> >>>> > abuse, starvation, and isolation as "treatment techniques",
> methods
> >> >>>> that in
> >> >>>> > any other pursuit are considered cruel and unusual punishment and
> >> >>>> torture;
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > WHEREAS, children are often subjected to this type of therapy
> >> against
> >> >>>> > their will, even by loving and well-intentioned parents who are
> >> >>>> unaware
> >> >>>> > that the methods used in conversion therapy are extremely
> forceful
> >> and
> >> >>>> > abusive;
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > WHEREAS, any therapy similar to this has been shown to result in
> >> >>>> suicide
> >> >>>> > attempts by 20% of these patients: a five-fold increase in the
> risk
> >> of
> >> >>>> > suicide attempts compared to other teens, increases that are the
> >> same
> >> >>>> as
> >> >>>> > other victims of repeated abuse, an increased risk that continues
> >> >>>> through
> >> >>>> > later life;
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that therapy modeled off these abusive
> >> >>>> > institutions, protected and/or funded by the State, constitutes
> >> >>>> consumer
> >> >>>> > fraud and forceful abuse, which the Libertarian Party opposes.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > FURTHER, BE IT RESOLVED, the Libertarian Party opposes subjecting
> >> >>>> > unwilling participants through force or coercion, especially
> >> >>>> children, to
> >> >>>> > any therapy that violates the non-aggression principle through
> any
> >> >>>> method
> >> >>>> > that would be considered abuse or torture."
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > John Phillips
> >> >>>> > Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
> >> >>>> > Cell 217-412-5973
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > On Apr 12, 2019 12:01 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos
> >> >>>> > wrote:
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > Ms Lynch approved enthusiastically of the one I proposed.  Mr.
> >> >>>> Phillips,
> >> >>>> > I’m in a plane right to - can you post mine for consideration.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 11:45 AM Jeff Lyons via Lnc-business <
> >> >>>> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > I'd be open to broadening the scope to include things that Ms.
> >> Lynch,
> >> >>>> whom
> >> >>>> > is an expert, wished to be included but I also want a resolution
> >> that
> >> >>>> is
> >> >>>> > specific and impactful in creating conversations with young
> >> rebellious
> >> >>>> > future Libertarian voters.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > Thanks again John.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > -Jeff
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > Get Outlook for Android
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > On Fri, Apr 12, 2019 at 12:21 PM -0400, "John Phillips" <
> >> >>>> > john.phillips at lp.org> wrote:
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > I would support and co-sponsor EITHER resolution. The one Mr
> Lyons
> >> >>>> and I
> >> >>>> > worked on, or the one Ms Harlos authored and I tweaked just a
> bit.
> >> >>>> Both
> >> >>>> > are good, both address the needs in different ways, with
> different
> >> >>>> pros and
> >> >>>> > cons.
> >> >>>> > The short answer is that this type of "therapy" is absolutely
> >> >>>> negative and
> >> >>>> > torturous to those forced into it.  We should 100% be against
> both
> >> >>>> torture
> >> >>>> > and force, and are, so lets find a way to make this work.
> >> >>>> > Perhaps Ms Harlos would share hers here for more discussion?
> >> >>>> > I do not find the two mutually exclusive, and think even a
> >> combination
> >> >>>> > would work, tho perhaps be overly long.
> >> >>>> > I know Ms Lynch has helped with both, and her input is more than
> >> >>>> welcome.
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > John Phillips
> >> >>>> > Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
> >> >>>> > Cell 217-412-5973
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > --
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>>
> >> >>> > *  In Liberty,*
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > *Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary
> *-
> >> >>>> Caryn.Ann.
> >> >>>> > Harlos at LP.org  or Secretary at LP.org.
> >> >>>> > *Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
> >> >>>> > Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
> >> >>>> > facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>>
> >>
> =========================================================================
> >> >>>> > Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
> >> >>>> Re-Legalize All
> >> >>>> > Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun
> >> Laws
> >> >>>> *
> >> >>>> > Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The
> Fed *
> >> >>>> End
> >> >>>> > Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the
> >> >>>> Income Tax
> >> >>>> > * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency
> >> >>>> Services
> >> >>>> > * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private
> >> Sector *
> >> >>>> > Eliminate Regulation *
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > *VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org <
> >> >>>> http://www.lp.org/>*
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>>
> >>
> =========================================================================
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> >
> >> >>>> > --
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> *  In Liberty,*
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> *Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *-
> >> >>>> Caryn.Ann.
> >> >>>> Harlos at LP.org  or Secretary at LP.org.
> >> >>>> *Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
> >> >>>> Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
> >> >>>> facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >>
> =========================================================================
> >> >>>> Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
> Re-Legalize
> >> >>>> All
> >> >>>> Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun
> Laws
> >> *
> >> >>>> Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed *
> >> End
> >> >>>> Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the
> Income
> >> >>>> Tax
> >> >>>> * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency
> >> >>>> Services
> >> >>>> * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private
> Sector *
> >> >>>> Eliminate Regulation *
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> *VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org <
> >> >>>> http://www.lp.org/>*
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >>
> =========================================================================
> >> >>>>
> >> >>> --
> >> >>
> >> >> *  In Liberty,*
> >> >>
> >> >> *Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *-
> >> Caryn.Ann.
> >> >> Harlos at LP.org  or Secretary at LP.org.
> >> >> *Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
> >> >> Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
> >> >> facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> =========================================================================
> >> >> Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism *
> Re-Legalize
> >> >> All Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun
> >> Laws *
> >> >> Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed *
> End
> >> >> Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the
> Income
> >> Tax
> >> >> * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency
> >> Services
> >> >> * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private Sector
> *
> >> >> Eliminate Regulation *
> >> >>
> >> >> *VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org
> >> >> *
> >> >>
> >>
> =========================================================================
> >> >>
> >> > --
> >>
> >> *  In Liberty,*
> >>
> >> *Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *-
> >> Caryn.Ann.
> >> Harlos at LP.org  or Secretary at LP.org.
> >> *Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
> >> Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
> >> facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >>
> >>
> =========================================================================
> >> Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize
> >> All
> >> Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun Laws
> >> *
> >> Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed *
> >> End
> >> Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the Income
> >> Tax
> >> * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency
> >> Services
> >> * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private Sector *
> >> Eliminate Regulation *
> >>
> >> *VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org *
> >>
> =========================================================================
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >>   In Liberty,
> >> Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee
> >> Secretary - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org or Secretary at LP.org.Chair, LP
> >> Historical Preservation Committee - LPedia at LP.org
> >> Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
> >> facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >>
> =========================================================================Peaceful
> >> Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize All
> >> Drugs *
> >> End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun Laws *
> >> Abolish All
> >> Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed * End Corporate
> >> &
> >> Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the Income Tax *
> >> Privatize
> >> Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency Services * Open
> >> Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private Sector *
> >> Eliminate
> >> Regulation *
> >> VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org
> >>
> =========================================================================
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> >
> > *  In Liberty,*
> >
> > *Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *-
> > Caryn.Ann.
> > Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
> > *Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
> > Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
> > facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/
> >
> > =========================================================================
> > Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize
> > All
> > Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun Laws *
> > Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed * End
> > Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the Income
> > Tax
> > * Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency
> > Services
> > * Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private Sector *
> > Eliminate Regulation *
> >
> > *VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org
> > <http://www.lp.org/>*
> > =========================================================================
>
-- 

*  In Liberty,*

*Libertarian Party and Libertarian National Committee Secretary *- Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org> or Secretary at LP.org.
*Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee* - LPedia at LP.org
Call me at 561.523.2250 and follow my public figure page at
facebook.com/pinkflameofliberty/

=========================================================================
Peaceful Commerce With All Nations * Non-interventionism * Re-Legalize All
Drugs * End Government Intrusion In The Bedroom * Repeal All Gun Laws *
Abolish All Taxation * Sound, Free-market Money * Abolish The Fed * End
Corporate & Individual Welfare * Abolish The IRS and Repeal the Income Tax
* Privatize Transportation Infrastructure * Free-market Emergency Services
* Open Migration * Transfer Government Schools To The Private Sector *
Eliminate Regulation *

*VOTE LIBERTARIAN * 800-ELECT-US or http://www.LP.org <http://www.lp.org/>*
=========================================================================