[Lnc-business] Request for Co-Sponsors

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

I urge you to get sponsors for electronic meeting or wait until Feb.
 appeals cannot be adequately handled by email.

-Caryn Ann

On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 4:23 PM <joshua.smith at lp.org> wrote:

> I'd like to start this email off with a motion appealing the ruling of the
> chair.
>
>
> There is no bylaw explicitly saying that we HAVE to accept someone's
> contribution. There is also not one stating that we cannot return a
> donation or terminate a membership.
>
> Do we not frequently refer to RONR for things that may not be covered in
> the bylaws like pretty much every other major organization or society? If
> so, this is a dog and pony show, and we have the authority to return the
> donation and terminate membership because that's covered on pages 643-644,
> being the first two pages on Discipline in Chapter XX.
>
> If we must follow those procedures, I will gladly make a motion as well to
> get that started, but I'm first appealing the ruling of the chair as there
> was a motion made by Mr. Phillips with a second.
>
> In liberty,
> -Joshua
>
> On Dec 23, 2019 2:13 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
> The bylaws limit our power.  Just as the constitution was supposed to
> limit
> the state.  They have had many good reasons to violate it - and we now see
> the result.
>
> I think the mistake you are making is viewing this as about any particular
> person rather than the objective action.
>
> Our dogma and everything about our beliefs anathematizes the act of the
> victimization of children.  The act can be condemned objectively and that
> is the Party position.
>
> There are also acts that many of us do in secret that are condemned (from
> minor to major).
>
> It is the same way the party doesn’t judge whether someone is libertarian
> enough - only whether a particular belief or act is consistent with
> libertarianism.
>
> If this were not so, anarchists could theoretically claim the pledge as an
> anarchist blood oath as some have claimed and call everyone else a
> statist.
>
> That is obviously not the correct path.
>
> All membership confers is the status of member in minimal compliance.  It
> does not declare any person clean.
>
> We must respect that the delegates knew of these kinds of issues for
> decades and never gave us that power.
>
> They can choose to do so in Austin.
>
> I will not grasp power not explicitly given to us.  That was my raison
> d’être for being on the LNC to begin with.
>
> -Caryn Ann
>
> On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 2:57 PM <john.phillips at lp.org> wrote:
>
> > That question was a cut and paste from a member.
> >
> > I see both sides on this.  So I am debating my next step.
> >
> > My motion was a compromise one to attempt to reconcile both sides.
> >
> > I will point out that under the logic presented Hitler and Stalin could
> > sign the form and be members were they still alive.  So it is not the
> > weightiest of responses to me, though I will not say it is wrong, just
> > carries less weight.
> >
> > The question will come, are we a haven for those who prey on children?
> Or
> > do we flatly reject those actions?
> >
> > It will also come, do we believe in second chances, and if so what must
> be
> > done to earn that?
> >
> > Are we as Libertarians so bound in the dogma of our bylaws that we will
> > not look at interpretations to do what is right?
> >
> > Those questions will weigh heavily on my soul, and then in which
> priority
> > do I place them?
> >
> > If we are to be a haven for predators, I do not know if I will be able
> to
> > wrap my conscience around that enough to continue to represent this
> party.
> >
> > This will take some thought.
> >
> > John Phillips
> > Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
> > Cell 217-412-5973
> >
> > On Dec 23, 2019 3:36 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Mr. Phillips please allow me to give some history here.  The pledge WAS
> > never intended to be a gatekeeper to exclude people from the Party
> because
> > as David Nolan said, bad people will lie.  While it legitimately
> reflects
> > our beliefs and it is hoped it is signed in sincerity of internal
> beliefs,
> > its purpose was to protect the Party from the government and to educate
> > members.  Further, if any evil person reformed themselves, they could
> > legitimately sign the pledge.  I doubt any of us are free from past
> > aggression.  I have no idea of this individual's current state of
> > repentance, but such difficulties are exactly why that was never the
> > purpose of the pledge as originally intended.
> >
> > http://lpedia.org/Libertarian_Membership_Pledge
> >
> > Just recently we had a few members calling for the expulsion of any
> parent
> > that spanks their children - that is not a fallacious slippery slope, it
> is
> > one supported with evidence.  I am NAPster purist as they come, but we
> are
> > not the judgment throne of God.
> >
> > -Caryn Ann
> >
> > *In Liberty,*
> >
> > * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
> > (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
> > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
> faux
> > pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 2:21 PM john.phillips--- via Lnc-business <
> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >
> > I question whether someone who has engaged in child prostitution can
> > legitimately sign the NAP.  Would we have to accept Jeffrey Dahmer or
> > Timothy Mcveigh's applications?
> >
> > John Phillips
> > Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
> > Cell 217-412-5973
> >
> > On Dec 23, 2019 2:35 PM, Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business <
> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I'm going to start with the relevant section of the Bylaws, since it
> makes
> > it easier to reference for those reading:
> > "ARTICLE 4: MEMBERSHIP
> > 1. Members of the Party shall be those persons who have certified in
> > writing
> > that they oppose the initiation of force to achieve political or social
> > goals.
> > 2. The National Committee may offer life memberships, and must honor all
> > prior and future life memberships.
> > 3. The National Committee may create other levels of membership and
> shall
> > determine the contribution or dues levels for such memberships.
> > 4. “Sustaining members” are members of the Party who: a. During the
> prior
> > twelve months have donated, or have had donated on their behalf, an
> amount
> > of at least $25; or b. Are Life members."
> >
> > The person mentioned in the motion has met the conditions set forth in
> the
> > bylaws (Art. 4, Sec. 1 and 4) to be a sustaining member of the
> Libertarian
> > Party as of the date that the contribution and attached signed
> > certification were processed.
> >
> > It may be in order to refund the person's contribution as part of the
> > LNC's
> > prerogative to issue directives overriding those of the Chair, though it
> > would not be in order if it had the effect of denying that person a
> > sustaining membership. Art. 4, Sec. 4 can be read as applying by the
> fact
> > of the person making the donation, even if the donation was subsequently
> > refunded.  That's a somewhat strained reading of it, so it would be
> better
> > if the motion made it clear that it was a refund without a change in
> > sustaining
> > membership status.
> >
> > The latter half of the motion is out of order as the membership
> > application
> > has been processed.
> >
> > The mover has the option to rewrite the motion to fit within my
> > interpretation of the bylaws outlined above, appeal from the ruling of
> the
> > Chair, or ask for time on the agenda in February.
> >
> > Yours truly,
> > Nick
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 11:47 AM john.phillips--- via Lnc-business <
> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >
> > > A point I considered Caryn Ann and Alex, and appreciate.  I considered
> > it
> > > moot as someone else had already made the name public, but still had
> > qualms
> > >
> > > I agree on not using it going forward.
> > >
> > > John Phillips
> > > Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
> > > Cell 217-412-5973
> > >
> > > On Dec 23, 2019 7:40 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > I would encourage you to add this to February agenda.  The chair has
> > > indicated that discussion of non-public figures is not appropriate for
> a
> > > public list.
> > >
> > > -Caryn Ann
> > >
> > > On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 5:58 AM john.phillips--- via Lnc-business <
> > > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Given that the nature of this is no longer as time sensitive, I
> disagree
> > > with the interpretation that it is not a matter we can address, as was
> > > pointed out no ruling of the chair was officially given, and I find
> the
> > > situation in general disturbing, I will ask for co-sponsors for the
> > > following motion.
> > >
> > > "The L.N.C. directs the Executive Director to refund the donation of
> > Royce
> > > Corley, and further not accept his membership application until after
> > the
> > > National Convention in May of 2020."
> > >
> > > This will allow the delegates, if they choose to address it, to make a
> > > decision either in specific or in general about such situations, while
> > > addressing the current objections of several members of this board and
> > many
> > > of the party members currently.
> > >
> > > As always I am open to suggestions and motions regarding alternative
> > > wording.
> > >
> > > John Phillips
> > > Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
> > > Cell 217-412-5973
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > *In Liberty,*
> > >
> > > * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
> > > (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> > > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
> anyone
> > > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
> > faux
> > > pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
>
> *In Liberty,*
>
> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>
>
> --

*In Liberty,*

* Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
(part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *