[Lnc-business] Seeking cosponsors - convention motion

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

I am not either EVH.  I’m seeing calls to have a simple ballot on the
ticket and that alone

On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:30 AM Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:

> Feedback from Region 3 is come from a small number of frustrated people
> who were either unable to log-in to the test, didn't get the emails, or
> other procedural problems.
>
> I'm not seeing calls for scuttling the compromise.  (one of my state
> chairs did suggest having 51 people on Zoom, and it be the state chairs.
>  Each representing their state delegates.  (Which might be on separate
> group meetings, I'm not sure, I'll need to ask if he has specifics on
> that.)
>
> ---
> Elizabeth Van Horn
> LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY)
>
> On 2020-05-14 08:51, joe.bishop-henchman--- via Lnc-business wrote:
>
> > I'm also on the state chairs list and the frustration being expressed is
> the voting in the test system is *too* centralized, with a stated
> preference that the votes on everything go through delegation chairs to
> ensure everyone's vote is counted.
> >
> > On May 14, 2020 8:37 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Mr. Nanna, I am reading the state chair's list.  It is not presently
> >> acceptable to them.  The shining ray of hope is that they look like
> they
> >> are willing to tell us to take our procedure and shove it and work it
> out
> >> for themselves.  Localization is better in this party too.  But the
> fact
> >> that the rest of the party is happy with this is a fiction.
> >>
> >> *In Liberty,*
> >>
> >> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
> >> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
> >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
> faux
> >> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> >>
> >> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 6:23 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <
> caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I disagree with your assessment and that's okay.  Last night's test
> caused
> >>> even more issues and the comments and hostilities over that made me
> disable
> >>> Facebook.
> >>>
> >>> This online convention scheme is going to create a division far worse
> than
> >>> Portland.  Ten years from now it will still be going.
> >>>
> >>> There is only one thing I know we can do well.  Simple ballotting.
> >>>
> >>> But whatever happens happens.
> >>>
> >>> But I can't support this gross violation of members rights and trading
> >>> rights for peace is an abdication.
> >>>
> >>> If this suicide route is what the LNC chooses, it has the right to do
> so.
> >>> To claim it us for peace is a farce I won't let go unchallenged.
> >>>
> >>> If it happens I will do my best to minimize rights violations that I
> can
> >>> by making things smoother.
> >>>
> >>> But to sell member rights and call it peace is something you can tell
> >>> yourself.  I can't.
> >>>
> >>> I can only hope states take the bull by the horns and plan to protect
> >>> their own member rights the best they can.
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 5:44 AM Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair) via
> >>> Lnc-business <lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I second the exact sentiments from Representative O'Donnell, we
> should
> >>>> work to honor the compromise and I will vote against any move towards
> any
> >>>> extreme one way or the other.
> >>>>
> >>>> With such limited time it's logistically unclear whether an all
> online
> >>>> convention could be sufficiently executed and with ballot access
> >>>> considerations and uncertainty in Orlando it is unwise to leave the
> P/VP
> >>>> nominations to July.
> >>>>
> >>>> Let's honor the compromise, the hostility among this body is becoming
> too
> >>>> much of a distraction to members who could otherwise be organizing,
> >>>> campaigning and doings things other than being frustrated and
> confused by
> >>>> the uncertainty those who want either extreme are creating.
> >>>>
> >>>> Let's create certainty for our members by honoring the compromise.
> >>>>
> >>>> Alex Merced
> >>>> Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
> >>>>
> >>>>> On May 14, 2020, at 12:35 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
> >>>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I will co-sponsor.  I want to give my reasons.  The chair is
> >>>> subverting the
> >>>>> will of the LNC, and the LNC needs to take back its rightful control
> of
> >>>> its
> >>>>> own decisions.  I do not know if I am going to vote for it.  But it
> >>>> needs
> >>>>> to be heard.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If a concurrent motion is offered to have an acceptable compromise,
> I
> >>>> will
> >>>>> definitely vote for this.  But without such I do not know my answer.
> >>>> But I
> >>>>> will co-sponsor as a sign of my objection to the usurping of the
> >>>> authority
> >>>>> of the LNC by one person.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *In Liberty,*
> >>>>>
> >>>>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> Syndrome
> >>>>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> >>>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
> anyone
> >>>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
> >>>> faux
> >>>>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <
> >>>> caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mr. Phillips we can concurrently offer the Adams compromise that
> would
> >>>> be
> >>>>>> a ballot that expires concurrently with this one or one day later.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> *In Liberty,*
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> Syndrome
> >>>>>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> >>>>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
> anyone
> >>>>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
> social
> >>>> faux
> >>>>>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <
> >>>> caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> EVH, I think your point has merit.  If this motion passes, I
> >>>>>>> would re-offer the Erin Adams compromise motion or something very
> >>>> similar
> >>>>>>> unless someone convinces me that would be unwise.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> From what I hear from what happened tonight - not the things that
> >>>> will be
> >>>>>>> fixed with practices - but with the inherent flaws that make this
> NOT
> >>>> a
> >>>>>>> deliberative process and our chair's comments about points of
> order
> >>>> and
> >>>>>>> parliamentary inquiry, I do not believe we can pull this off and
> >>>> protect
> >>>>>>> rights.  If that is the route the LNC decides to take, I will
> respect
> >>>> it
> >>>>>>> and do my best, but the best at impossible is still impossible.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> But we did commit to a compromise.  But our compromise where our
> chair
> >>>>>>> has vowed to skuttle it is no compromise.  We need one that cannot
> be
> >>>>>>> skuttled by the chair.  Ms. Adams' compromise is far superior.
> After
> >>>>>>> getting some advise, I may be seeking co-sponsors for a concurrent
> >>>> ballot
> >>>>>>> with this one to expire after it that would adopt the Adams
> motion.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> Syndrome
> >>>>>>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> >>>>>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
> >>>> anyone
> >>>>>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
> social
> >>>> faux
> >>>>>>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:23 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <
> >>>>>>> caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Email ballots do not require four co-sponsors from the winning
> side.
> >>>>>>>> The sponsors are like seconds.   I have not decided if I am going
> to
> >>>>>>>> support this motion, but I am not going to let it get squashed by
> >>>>>>>> procedure.  But you are incorrect on the point of order to begin
> >>>> with.  We
> >>>>>>>> are not in the same session. That requirement for the winning
> side
> >>>> is only
> >>>>>>>> in the same session.  A rescind does not require someone on the
> >>>> winning
> >>>>>>>> side.  If you need the RONR pages, I can provide them.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> >>>> Syndrome
> >>>>>>>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> >>>>>>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
> >>>> anyone
> >>>>>>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
> social
> >>>> faux
> >>>>>>>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:48 PM justin.odonnell--- via
> Lnc-business <
> >>>>>>>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I object to this motion.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> The purpose of the compromise we came to was to accomodate
> ballot
> >>>>>>>>> access deadlines and the recognition that a July date made doing
> so
> >>>>>>>>> impossible or impractical. Ignoring those concerns is
> irresponsible
> >>>> and
> >>>>>>>>> damaging to the Party. Furthermore, we waited too long to make a
> >>>> decision
> >>>>>>>>> in the first place, this is on us. We all knew well before last
> >>>> weekend
> >>>>>>>>> that Memorial Day in Texas wasn't going to fly in the current
> >>>> climate, we
> >>>>>>>>> have noone but ourselves to blame for letting things get to this
> >>>> point with
> >>>>>>>>> wishful thinking. Its time to stop acting childish, suck it up,
> and
> >>>> make
> >>>>>>>>> the best of the situation we're in.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On parliamentary grounds, a motion to reconsider is required to
> be
> >>>> made
> >>>>>>>>> by a member of the prevailing side, I would argue that an email
> >>>> ballot
> >>>>>>>>> requires 4 valid cosponsors, and thus would require 4 members
> from
> >>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> prevailing side to cosponsor in order to be a valid motion.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Justin O'Donnell
> >>>>>>>>> LNC Region 8 Representative
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On May 13, 2020 11:04 PM, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business <
> >>>>>>>>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I ask for email ballot co-sponsors for the following motion to:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Rescind in its entirety the motion adopted during the May 9,
> 2020
> >>>> LNC
> >>>>>>>>> meeting, which called for a convention to begin on May 22, 2020
> with
> >>>>>>>>> business conducted online.  Instead, in accordance with Bylaw
> >>>> Article
> >>>>>>>>> 10.1,
> >>>>>>>>> the LNC calls an in-person convention to occur during the dates
> of
> >>>> July
> >>>>>>>>> 8-12, 2020 at Rosen Shingle Creek in Orlando, Florida.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I know that I was on the losing side of a 13-4 motion on
> Saturday,
> >>>>>>>>> however
> >>>>>>>>> after tonight's train-wreck and the information I learned during
> >>>> it, I
> >>>>>>>>> believe that some LNC members from the other side are ready to
> >>>> change
> >>>>>>>>> course.  If I did not believe that to be the case, I would not
> offer
> >>>>>>>>> this
> >>>>>>>>> motion.  To preserve options for the LNC, given the 7-day voting
> >>>> period
> >>>>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>>>> an email ballot, I want to start this motion now so that it can
> >>>>>>>>> complete by
> >>>>>>>>> next Wednesday.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I will have a LOT to say about this soon, as will others, but my
> >>>> first
> >>>>>>>>> focus is getting the co-sponsors.  Then we can debate.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -Alicia
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> <
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>
> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Virus-free.
> >>>>>>>>> www.avg.com
> >>>>>>>>> <
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>
> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>
> >>> *In Liberty,*
> >>>
> >>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
> >>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> >>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
> anyone
> >>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
> faux
> >>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> >>>
> >>>
>
-- 

*In Liberty,*

* Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
(part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *