[Lnc-business] Seeking cosponsors - convention motion

Caryn Ann Harlos caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org
Thu May 14 10:22:34 EDT 2020 

The state chairs are suggesting this.  Go ask them.



On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 8:09 AM justin.odonnell--- via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:

> You are opposing central planning by attempting to remove the delegates
> ability to decide the course themselves and centrally plan everything to
> your liking from a seat on the LNC.
>
>
> Justin O'Donnell
> LNC Region 8 Representative
>
> On May 14, 2020 10:03 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
> Colorado just weighed in.  Sick of the circus - give them ballots and
> trust
> the state chairs to know their delegations.
>
> This one size fits all us central planning at its most hideous in this
> circumstances.
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:42 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
>
> wrote:
>
> > I am not either EVH.  I’m seeing calls to have a simple ballot on the
> > ticket and that alone
> >
> > On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:30 AM Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business <
> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Feedback from Region 3 is come from a small number of frustrated people
> >> who were either unable to log-in to the test, didn't get the emails, or
> >> other procedural problems.
> >>
> >> I'm not seeing calls for scuttling the compromise.  (one of my state
> >> chairs did suggest having 51 people on Zoom, and it be the state
> chairs.
> >>  Each representing their state delegates.  (Which might be on separate
> >> group meetings, I'm not sure, I'll need to ask if he has specifics on
> >> that.)
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Elizabeth Van Horn
> >> LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY)
> >>
> >> On 2020-05-14 08:51, joe.bishop-henchman--- via Lnc-business wrote:
> >>
> >> > I'm also on the state chairs list and the frustration being expressed
> >> is the voting in the test system is *too* centralized, with a stated
> >> preference that the votes on everything go through delegation chairs to
> >> ensure everyone's vote is counted.
> >> >
> >> > On May 14, 2020 8:37 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
> >> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Mr. Nanna, I am reading the state chair's list.  It is not presently
> >> >> acceptable to them.  The shining ray of hope is that they look like
> >> they
> >> >> are willing to tell us to take our procedure and shove it and work
> it
> >> out
> >> >> for themselves.  Localization is better in this party too.  But the
> >> fact
> >> >> that the rest of the party is happy with this is a fiction.
> >> >>
> >> >> *In Liberty,*
> >> >>
> >> >> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> Syndrome
> >> >> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> >> >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
> >> anyone
> >> >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
> >> faux
> >> >> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 6:23 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <
> >> caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> I disagree with your assessment and that's okay.  Last night's test
> >> caused
> >> >>> even more issues and the comments and hostilities over that made me
> >> disable
> >> >>> Facebook.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> This online convention scheme is going to create a division far
> worse
> >> than
> >> >>> Portland.  Ten years from now it will still be going.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> There is only one thing I know we can do well.  Simple ballotting.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> But whatever happens happens.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> But I can't support this gross violation of members rights and
> >> trading
> >> >>> rights for peace is an abdication.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> If this suicide route is what the LNC chooses, it has the right to
> do
> >> so.
> >> >>> To claim it us for peace is a farce I won't let go unchallenged.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> If it happens I will do my best to minimize rights violations that
> I
> >> can
> >> >>> by making things smoother.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> But to sell member rights and call it peace is something you can
> tell
> >> >>> yourself.  I can't.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I can only hope states take the bull by the horns and plan to
> protect
> >> >>> their own member rights the best they can.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 5:44 AM Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair) via
> >> >>> Lnc-business <lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> I second the exact sentiments from Representative O'Donnell, we
> >> should
> >> >>>> work to honor the compromise and I will vote against any move
> >> towards any
> >> >>>> extreme one way or the other.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> With such limited time it's logistically unclear whether an all
> >> online
> >> >>>> convention could be sufficiently executed and with ballot access
> >> >>>> considerations and uncertainty in Orlando it is unwise to leave
> the
> >> P/VP
> >> >>>> nominations to July.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Let's honor the compromise, the hostility among this body is
> >> becoming too
> >> >>>> much of a distraction to members who could otherwise be
> organizing,
> >> >>>> campaigning and doings things other than being frustrated and
> >> confused by
> >> >>>> the uncertainty those who want either extreme are creating.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Let's create certainty for our members by honoring the compromise.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Alex Merced
> >> >>>> Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>> On May 14, 2020, at 12:35 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
> >> >>>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> I will co-sponsor.  I want to give my reasons.  The chair is
> >> >>>> subverting the
> >> >>>>> will of the LNC, and the LNC needs to take back its rightful
> >> control of
> >> >>>> its
> >> >>>>> own decisions.  I do not know if I am going to vote for it.  But
> it
> >> >>>> needs
> >> >>>>> to be heard.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> If a concurrent motion is offered to have an acceptable
> compromise,
> >> I
> >> >>>> will
> >> >>>>> definitely vote for this.  But without such I do not know my
> >> answer.
> >> >>>> But I
> >> >>>>> will co-sponsor as a sign of my objection to the usurping of the
> >> >>>> authority
> >> >>>>> of the LNC by one person.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> *In Liberty,*
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> >> Syndrome
> >> >>>>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> >> >>>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
> >> anyone
> >> >>>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
> >> social
> >> >>>> faux
> >> >>>>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <
> >> >>>> caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
> >> >>>>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> Mr. Phillips we can concurrently offer the Adams compromise that
> >> would
> >> >>>> be
> >> >>>>>> a ballot that expires concurrently with this one or one day
> later.
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> *In Liberty,*
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> >> Syndrome
> >> >>>>>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> >> >>>>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
> >> anyone
> >> >>>>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
> >> social
> >> >>>> faux
> >> >>>>>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <
> >> >>>> caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
> >> >>>>>> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> EVH, I think your point has merit.  If this motion passes, I
> >> >>>>>>> would re-offer the Erin Adams compromise motion or something
> very
> >> >>>> similar
> >> >>>>>>> unless someone convinces me that would be unwise.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> From what I hear from what happened tonight - not the things
> that
> >> >>>> will be
> >> >>>>>>> fixed with practices - but with the inherent flaws that make
> this
> >> NOT
> >> >>>> a
> >> >>>>>>> deliberative process and our chair's comments about points of
> >> order
> >> >>>> and
> >> >>>>>>> parliamentary inquiry, I do not believe we can pull this off
> and
> >> >>>> protect
> >> >>>>>>> rights.  If that is the route the LNC decides to take, I will
> >> respect
> >> >>>> it
> >> >>>>>>> and do my best, but the best at impossible is still impossible.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> But we did commit to a compromise.  But our compromise where
> our
> >> chair
> >> >>>>>>> has vowed to skuttle it is no compromise.  We need one that
> >> cannot be
> >> >>>>>>> skuttled by the chair.  Ms. Adams' compromise is far superior.
> >> After
> >> >>>>>>> getting some advise, I may be seeking co-sponsors for a
> >> concurrent
> >> >>>> ballot
> >> >>>>>>> with this one to expire after it that would adopt the Adams
> >> motion.
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> >> Syndrome
> >> >>>>>>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> >> >>>>>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.
> If
> >> >>>> anyone
> >> >>>>>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
> >> social
> >> >>>> faux
> >> >>>>>>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:23 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <
> >> >>>>>>> caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> Email ballots do not require four co-sponsors from the winning
> >> side.
> >> >>>>>>>> The sponsors are like seconds.   I have not decided if I am
> >> going to
> >> >>>>>>>> support this motion, but I am not going to let it get squashed
> >> by
> >> >>>>>>>> procedure.  But you are incorrect on the point of order to
> begin
> >> >>>> with.  We
> >> >>>>>>>> are not in the same session. That requirement for the winning
> >> side
> >> >>>> is only
> >> >>>>>>>> in the same session.  A rescind does not require someone on
> the
> >> >>>> winning
> >> >>>>>>>> side.  If you need the RONR pages, I can provide them.
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> >> >>>> Syndrome
> >> >>>>>>>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> >> >>>>>>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.
> If
> >> >>>> anyone
> >> >>>>>>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
> >> social
> >> >>>> faux
> >> >>>>>>>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:48 PM justin.odonnell--- via
> >> Lnc-business <
> >> >>>>>>>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> I object to this motion.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> The purpose of the compromise we came to was to accomodate
> >> ballot
> >> >>>>>>>>> access deadlines and the recognition that a July date made
> >> doing so
> >> >>>>>>>>> impossible or impractical. Ignoring those concerns is
> >> irresponsible
> >> >>>> and
> >> >>>>>>>>> damaging to the Party. Furthermore, we waited too long to
> make
> >> a
> >> >>>> decision
> >> >>>>>>>>> in the first place, this is on us. We all knew well before
> last
> >> >>>> weekend
> >> >>>>>>>>> that Memorial Day in Texas wasn't going to fly in the current
> >> >>>> climate, we
> >> >>>>>>>>> have noone but ourselves to blame for letting things get to
> >> this
> >> >>>> point with
> >> >>>>>>>>> wishful thinking. Its time to stop acting childish, suck it
> up,
> >> and
> >> >>>> make
> >> >>>>>>>>> the best of the situation we're in.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> On parliamentary grounds, a motion to reconsider is required
> to
> >> be
> >> >>>> made
> >> >>>>>>>>> by a member of the prevailing side, I would argue that an
> email
> >> >>>> ballot
> >> >>>>>>>>> requires 4 valid cosponsors, and thus would require 4 members
> >> from
> >> >>>> the
> >> >>>>>>>>> prevailing side to cosponsor in order to be a valid motion.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> Justin O'Donnell
> >> >>>>>>>>> LNC Region 8 Representative
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> On May 13, 2020 11:04 PM, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business <
> >> >>>>>>>>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> I ask for email ballot co-sponsors for the following motion
> to:
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> Rescind in its entirety the motion adopted during the May 9,
> >> 2020
> >> >>>> LNC
> >> >>>>>>>>> meeting, which called for a convention to begin on May 22,
> 2020
> >> with
> >> >>>>>>>>> business conducted online.  Instead, in accordance with Bylaw
> >> >>>> Article
> >> >>>>>>>>> 10.1,
> >> >>>>>>>>> the LNC calls an in-person convention to occur during the
> dates
> >> of
> >> >>>> July
> >> >>>>>>>>> 8-12, 2020 at Rosen Shingle Creek in Orlando, Florida.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> I know that I was on the losing side of a 13-4 motion on
> >> Saturday,
> >> >>>>>>>>> however
> >> >>>>>>>>> after tonight's train-wreck and the information I learned
> >> during
> >> >>>> it, I
> >> >>>>>>>>> believe that some LNC members from the other side are ready
> to
> >> >>>> change
> >> >>>>>>>>> course.  If I did not believe that to be the case, I would
> not
> >> offer
> >> >>>>>>>>> this
> >> >>>>>>>>> motion.  To preserve options for the LNC, given the 7-day
> >> voting
> >> >>>> period
> >> >>>>>>>>> for
> >> >>>>>>>>> an email ballot, I want to start this motion now so that it
> can
> >> >>>>>>>>> complete by
> >> >>>>>>>>> next Wednesday.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> I will have a LOT to say about this soon, as will others, but
> >> my
> >> >>>> first
> >> >>>>>>>>> focus is getting the co-sponsors.  Then we can debate.
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> -Alicia
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> <
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>
> >>
> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> Virus-free.
> >> >>>>>>>>> www.avg.com
> >> >>>>>>>>> <
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>
> >>
> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>>>>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> --
> >> >>>
> >> >>> *In Liberty,*
> >> >>>
> >> >>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> >> Syndrome
> >> >>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> >> >>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
> >> anyone
> >> >>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
> social
> >> faux
> >> >>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >>
> > --
> >
> > *In Liberty,*
> >
> > * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
> > (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
> > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
> faux
> > pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> >
> > --
>
> *In Liberty,*
>
> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>
>
> --

*In Liberty,*

* Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
(part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *

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