[Lnc-business] EMAIL BALLOT 200531-1 APPEAL FROM THE RULING OF THE CHAIR CONCERNING REMOVAL OF DANIEL HAYES FROM THE COC

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

Now that the chair has responded (in another thread) I will speak to my
motion.

the Chair's response misses the point.  He shows where he appointed past
members without objection.  No one disputes that because those members were
recommended by the CoC.  That is the whole point.  He does not get to
unilaterally appoint members per our Policy Manual.  Mr. Bishop-Henchman
states that this does not make it a joint appointment but it must certainly
does since it limits the Chair's authority.  RONR is clear that the chair
cannot unilaterally remove a member of a committee unless they had the
power to unilaterally appoint.  I will repost the point that Ms. Mattson
made on this already:

==We have two entities here which jointly appoint non-LNC members to
the COC.  RONR addresses removal when an appointment is made by one
person. RONR addresses removal when it's made by an assembly like the LNC.
It doesn't really go into the scenario in which two entities have to agree
for an appointment.

What's the most reasonable approach for how such an appointment is reversed?

If the two entities are considered together to be the appointing body,
one entity is not a majority of the appointing body.  Both entities have
to agree to get to that majority threshold for the appointment.

To reverse an appointment requires a motion to Rescind or to
Amend Something Previously Adopted.  These require a majority with notice,
a majority of the entire membership, or a 2/3 vote.  None of these
thresholds
can be met with just the LNC Chair without the COC.

The chair seems to be taking the position that it requires consent
from both to appoint, therefore if one of the two entities later
withdraws consent, the appointment is reversed.  This is not consistent
with how RONR
says committee appointments are reversed.  But the equal application
of this logic would say that, hypothetically speaking, if the COC removed
its consent for a different non-LNC member of the COC, that person would
no longer be on the committee, either, even if the Chair disagreed, right?
Or if the LNC had made an LNC-member appointment with a 9-8 vote, that any
of the 9 could later withdraw their consent and reverse the outcome.  We
all know that one person can't later withdraw the deciding vote to
unilaterally kill a collective decision of the LNC.  Now that the question
is squarely in front of us and I'm having to develop a firm opinion about
it, I'm having trouble seeing the merits of this view of how our
joint-appointment policy works.==

Mr. Richard Brown concurs with Ms. Mattson's reasoning.

I will further add, though this is not directly to the procedure of the
issue, but more to the justice of it.  Mr. Sarwark had been publicly
threatening Mr. Hayes with removal for a few weeks now which is an improper
way to treat a volunteer.  Anyone on FB is sure to remember the ominous
"Insubordination is a gamble.  Make your bets wisely" post a few days
before the removal.  Disagreeing with Mr. Sarwark who himself is
insubordinate to the decisions of the LNC and CoC is not insubordination,
and such tactics belong in the authoritarian old parties.

*In Liberty,*

* Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
(part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *



On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 5:11 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
wrote:

> The proverbs say one man seems right until another argues his case
>
> I just ask you read subsequent arguments with an open mind.  I have not
> yet spoken to my motion.
>
> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 4:34 PM Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair) via
> Lnc-business <lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
>> Wasn’t sure if my first email was sent, but agree with Joes reasoning so
>> vote yes. Also, like Jo I agree these details should be made clearer for
>> future situations.
>>
>> Alex Merced
>> Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
>>
>> > On May 31, 2020, at 7:00 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > I’m reserving my vote and argument for one day to give the chair his
>> > privilege.
>> >
>> > I would encourage others to do the same
>> >
>> > I would also encourage members to seek the counsel of Richard Brown
>> >
>> >> On Sun, May 31, 2020 at 4:38 PM <joe.bishop-henchman at lp.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I vote yes, to sustain the ruling. The language of the policy manual is
>> >> that the non-LNC members are "selected by the LNC Chair" on the
>> >> recommendation of the COC. There is no explicit language governing
>> >> dismissals.
>> >>
>> >> While I would agree that a new member would need recommendation by the
>> COC
>> >> (although this may become moot due to a pending motion), our policy
>> manual
>> >> chose to be silent on the mechanism of dismissal and in that case it
>> rests
>> >> with who held appointment power. Presumably a Chair could refuse to
>> appoint
>> >> someone recommended by the COC, and the result would be a vacant seat.
>> The
>> >> Chair therefore ultimately selects the members.
>> >>
>> >> In an analogous situation (President's removal of an appointee who had
>> >> received Senate confirmation for a fixed term, with no explicit
>> language
>> >> governing dismissals), the U.S. Supreme Court held in Myers v. United
>> >> States that the President may remove such a person. Congress since has
>> >> deliberately included such language when the agency involved is
>> intended to
>> >> be independent of the executive branch, vs. when it is intended to be
>> >> subordinate to the executive (or legislative). That case incidentally
>> >> officially exonerated President Andrew Johnson, whose impeachment was
>> >> pretextually about such a removal without Senate consent.
>> >>
>> >> I've never been quite clear whether the COC is intended to be
>> independent
>> >> or subordinate, as they can act independently in some, but not all,
>> >> decisions delegated to them. This lack of clarity also mitigates
>> against
>> >> insulating members from removal. I would support efforts to clarify it
>> >> further, however.
>> >>
>> >> JBH
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On May 31, 2020 4:18 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
>> >> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> EMAIL BALLOT 200531-1  APPEAL FROM THE RULING OF THE CHAIR CONCERNING
>> >> REMOVAL OF DANIEL HAYES FROM THE COC
>> >>
>> >> We have an electronic mail ballot.
>> >>
>> >> Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by June 7, 2020 at 11:59:59 pm
>> >> Pacific time.
>> >>
>> >> Co-Sponsors:  Goldstein, Harlos, Longstreth, Phillips, Smith
>> >>
>> >> =============================================
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Motion: The Chair has ruled he can not only remove Daniel Hayes as CoC
>> >> chair but also from the committee entirely.  Harlos appeals from the
>> >> ruling
>> >> of the chair that he can remove Hayes from the committee without CoC
>> >> approval since appointment required CoC approval.
>> >>
>> >> =============================================
>> >>
>> >> THRESHOLD REQUIRED:  A majority vote is required to overturn the
>> ruling of
>> >> the chair.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> You can keep track of the Secretary's manual tally of votes here:
>> >>
>> >>
>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VntkXkkuQouUiWbt9bnI_TjSMKDiTaDDpvsYtTmJdhE/edit#gid=1053534570
>> .
>> >>
>> >> Votes are noted with a link to the actual ballot cast for verification.
>> >> You
>> >> can find the time that the manual tally was last updated at the bottom
>> of
>> >> the sheet.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Please notify me of any discrepancies.
>> >>
>> >> *  In Liberty,*
>> >> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
>> >> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>> >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
>> >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
>> faux
>> >> pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know.
>> *
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >
>> > *  In Liberty,*
>> > * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
>> > (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>> > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
>> > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
>> faux
>> > pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me know.  *
>>
>> --
>
> *In Liberty,*
>
> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>
>