[Lnc-business] Convention Change of Venues

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

It is a breach since they promised they would be open and they switched
locations.  In my opinion.  We were betrayed.

I analogize back to my views on the Arvin Vohra situation.  He tried to
force this body in a direction it did not want to go.  I do think
reasonable people can disagree on whether we hit impossibility.  It is not
clear cut.  But I will not force this body in a direction it doesn't want
to go when  a credible argument can be made they are not violating the
bylaws.  I am consistent.  It is clear to me that there is a clear majority
to cancel.

I insisted that the right thing for our chair to do was to honour the
decision of this body.  I cannot do differently.  I wish this body would
make a different decision.  But my wishes are not reality.

*In Liberty,*

* Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
(part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *



On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 10:14 AM joshua.smith--- via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:

> Furthermore, I am willing to help the members of the COC with any extra
> work this has caused to ensure a successful convention. Please reach out if
> there are any action items I can help with.
>
> Thanks,
> Joshua
>
> On Jun 30, 2020 10:50 AM, joshua.smith at lp.org wrote:
>
> I don't think there was a breach, and being given an even bigger
> convention space for those worried about social distancing seems like a
> good thing. The convention center of roughly a half a mile away from the
> testing center. Not sure why wo many people are getting info that it IS the
> testing center.
>
> Regardless, I will be in Orlando along with at least 3 to 400 other
> delegates who are expecting an in person convention. Some who are even
> willing to vote for remote participation for those who cannot make it.
>
>
> Have we seriously hit impossibility? I hope that's the case before we try
> to cancel anything and throw money away.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Joshua
>
> On Jun 30, 2020 10:14 AM, "dustin.nanna--- via Lnc-business" <
> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
> If we think Rosen has breached by asking for this venue change we should
> absolutely demand performance.
>
> I am not sure I'm fully there yet, but I did literally just get off the
> phone with an attorney who felt the same.
>
> On Jun 30, 2020 11:08 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
> We should demand performance under the terms agreed and collect all the
> damages we can.
>
> We were betrayed by Rosen.
>
> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 9:04 AM erin.adams--- via Lnc-business <
> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
> > I want to be clear that shifting this to online does not mean that costs
> > will not be incurred. The convention oversight committee has received
> bills
> > for over $12,000 for the first sitting alone. There will be costs
> > regardless there is no way around that and holding a Convention of some
> > type is still bylaws mandated and must still be done
> >
> >
> > Erin Adams Region 7 alt.
> >
> > On Jun 30, 2020 9:50 AM, erin.adams at lp.org wrote:
> >
> > We will owe the AV vendor some money but we will get at least one remote
> > site out of that that could be used in an online sitting and the reality
> is
> > an online process will cost money so I'm okay with spending that. As far
> as
> > the hotel, I think that depends and how this all "ends"
> >
> > Erin Adams Region 7 alt.
> >
> > On Jun 30, 2020 9:41 AM, Tim Hagan via Lnc-business <
> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >
> > If we cancel, will we get the deposits back from Rosen and the A/V
> > vendor?
> >
> > ---
> > Tim Hagan
> > Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee
> >
> > On 2020-06-30 07:38, erin.adams--- via Lnc-business wrote:
> >
> > > That is my opinion as a committee member. I do not speak for the
> entire
> > committee. I think the Rosen group only offered us this "option" in
> order
> > to mitigate their damages. Under force majeure its a wash but if they
> > cancel they owe us damages. I dont believe that they believe they will
> be
> > hosting an event. I feel like they want to cancel and are trying to pass
> > the buck in order to mitigate damages. I belive our committee chair
> agrees
> > with me
> > >
> > > Erin Adams Region 7 alt.
> > >
> > > On Jun 30, 2020 9:30 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Ms Adams if that is the opinion of the CoC I will support.  My
> current
> > >> opinion is predicated on the CoC not believing that.  If they do, I
> > will
> > >> vote accordingly.  I cannot ask more than you guys have done.  You
> are
> > >> heros.
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 8:27 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <
> > caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Whatever happens I hope we are committed to honouring the decision
> of
> > this
> > >>> body and not trash talking disagreements on Facebook.
> > >>>
> > >>> The damage that was done by the failure to do that before is
> > immeasurable.
> > >>>
> > >>> We could have been at this point unified if that practice had been
> > >>> observed from the beginning.  We are all unhappy with LNC decisions
> at
> > some
> > >>> point.  I will model what I wish our chair would have done.  Imagine
> > how
> > >>> different things could have been.  It's sad to imagine.
> > >>>
> > >>> I will respect the decision of my colleagues.  That should always be
> > the
> > >>> practice.  That should have happened in May.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 8:03 AM Richard Longstreth via Lnc-business
> <
> > >>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> John,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> My state chairs have proposed a similar outcome. Votes on elected
> > >>>> positions, no deliberative work, either up and down voting on
> > plat/bylaws
> > >>>> or ensuring the work is preserves and visited down the road/ next
> > >>>> convention. I am currently at 8-1-0-3 as of the writing of this
> email
> > in
> > >>>> favor of not signing another contract
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Richard Longstreth
> > >>>> Region 1 Representative (AK, AZ, CO, HI, KS, MT, NM, OR, UT, WA,
> WY)
> > >>>> Libertarian National Committee
> > >>>> richard.longstreth at lp.org
> > >>>> 931.538.9300
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Sent from my Mobile Device
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020, 07:50 john.phillips--- via Lnc-business <
> > >>>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Given everything else going on both on Florida and around the
> > country,
> > >>>> as
> > >>>>> well as that apparently the convention center they want to put us
> in
> > is
> > >>>> one
> > >>>>> of their Covid testing locations, (despite my online jokes about
> > this
> > >>>> maybe
> > >>>>> being a feature not a flaw) we need to seriously consider this as
> a
> > >>>> time to
> > >>>>> make the decision to punt.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I am polling my state chairs/officers group right now, but my
> > >>>> inclination
> > >>>>> would be to move to not accept this change and cancel an in person
> > >>>>> convention, moving elections online, with platform and bylaws
> either
> > >>>> being
> > >>>>> straight up down votes, or over some sort of extended time frame
> > after
> > >>>>> elections are over with email balloting (not partial to that, but
> it
> > is
> > >>>> a
> > >>>>> possible thing).
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> John Phillips
> > >>>>> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
> > >>>>> Cell 217-412-5973
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Jun 30, 2020 7:43 AM, "Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair) via
> > >>>> Lnc-business" <
> > >>>>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> 100% this " Debate, vote, accept, work to make a success." 👏👏👏
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Alex Merced
> > >>>>> Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Jun 30, 2020, at 7:59 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
> > >>>> caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> If the in person does not go forward, I do hope we decide to have
> > an
> > >>>>> electronic convention on the same days as people have already
> > arranged
> > >>>> for
> > >>>>> time off work.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 5:53 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <
> > >>>>> caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>>> If the CoC had said they did not wish to do the work necessary I
> > >>>> would
> > >>>>> agree.  They have not, quite the contrary.  I think it would be
> > >>>>> disrespectful of everything they have done not to let them try.
> (As
> > >>>> well as
> > >>>>> to the delegates who want to go)
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> From what I understand all the same safety precautions and room
> > >>>> needed
> > >>>>> is accommodated.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> What this does is a second bite at the apple for those who have
> > >>>> always
> > >>>>> opposed.  There may be other reasons to change one's mind
> > (conditions in
> > >>>>> Florida for example) but this shift isn't anything major.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Everything in the compromise still holds true and the principle
> of
> > >>>>> respecting everyone's choice does as well.  Cancelling while it is
> > still
> > >>>>> possible forecloses the choice of those who want to go.  I think
> we
> > can
> > >>>>> honor all choices.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> That said, we are a deliberative body, and no matter what the
> > >>>> decision
> > >>>>> is, I hope everyone respects it and does not work to sow sour
> grapes
> > or
> > >>>>> undermine as we have seen already over this whole thing.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Debate, vote, accept, work to make a success.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 4:15 AM Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair)
> via
> > >>>>> Lnc-business <lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> Will the OCCC have all the same precautions that the Rosen
> > promised
> > >>>> As
> > >>>>> far safety (its not just size of the rooms).
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I've generally been in support of the compromise because it was
> > >>>>> visible that there was no way the party as a whole could move in
> > either
> > >>>>> direction without causing major schisms but this does raise many
> > >>>> concerns.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> - Even if rooms reservations are moved and a larger main hall
> is
> > >>>>> attained the amount of planning for the space such as tables and
> > >>>> breakout
> > >>>>> rooms, Gala planning etc. that would need to be revisited seems
> like
> > a
> > >>>>> cruel thing to ask the CoC to revisit.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> - I have seen annecdotally noticed several supporters of live
> > >>>>> convention change their mind not to go not cause their view had
> > changed
> > >>>> but
> > >>>>> due to the pressure from family and those around them. While I
> > intend
> > >>>> to be
> > >>>>> their if it happens, I have also seen similar levels of pressure
> > from my
> > >>>>> loved ones.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> - The Rosen was quite adamant about having us and was quite
> sure
> > >>>> they
> > >>>>> would be open that weekend what assurance we have that the OCCC
> will
> > >>>> not do
> > >>>>> the same in the next week and half (I know you can't control the
> > future
> > >>>> but
> > >>>>> at this point, but there comes a point where you can only fight
> > these
> > >>>>> headwinds so much).
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Considering the amount of logistics and timing that is now
> > >>>> reshuffled,
> > >>>>> the changing health environment I think that we can safely invoke
> > >>>>> impossibility/impracticality for the second sitting if we chose
> to.
> > I
> > >>>> don't
> > >>>>> know if this is something we are voting on, or If this ship has
> > sailed
> > >>>> but
> > >>>>> if it comes to a vote that is how I will vote based on current
> > >>>>> circumstances.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I do have nothing but gratitude for the efforts of the CoC to
> > move
> > >>>>> mountains in replanning a convention in 6 weeks and don't wish
> them
> > the
> > >>>>> burden of replanning this in two weeks in a venue without the kind
> > of
> > >>>>> vetting that was given to the Rosen in a fraction of the time.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> If the event does happen, I plan on being there but this is
> where
> > my
> > >>>>> heart is at with the hearing of this new information.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Alex Merced
> > >>>>>>>> Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> > On Jun 30, 2020, at 4:19 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via
> Lnc-business
> > <
> > >>>>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > We need to see an addendum or whatever sooner rather than
> > later.
> > >>>>> The two
> > >>>>>>>> > "sides" are eating each other's faces once again on facebook,
> > and
> > >>>> I
> > >>>>> have
> > >>>>>>>> > died inside over it.
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > People can disagree in good faith.  No matter what happens
> now
> > or
> > >>>>> whenever,
> > >>>>>>>> > I believe it is our job to accept whatever decision we
> > >>>> collectively
> > >>>>> make
> > >>>>>>>> > whether we personally agree or not and work to make whatever
> > that
> > >>>> is
> > >>>>> a
> > >>>>>>>> > success.
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > That is what I intend to do.  I am convinced that the "all or
> > >>>>> nothing"
> > >>>>>>>> > spectrums on both sides are seriously damaging our party.
> > There
> > >>>> is
> > >>>>> no
> > >>>>>>>> > parity.  My position:  I want everyone to get their way.
> Those
> > >>>> who
> > >>>>> wish to
> > >>>>>>>> > attend in person and those who wish to attend remotely, and
> > that
> > >>>> is
> > >>>>> how I
> > >>>>>>>> > will vote on this body and if necessary at any in-person
> > >>>>> convention.  I
> > >>>>>>>> > respect all choices and that people have good faith reasons
> for
> > >>>>> holding
> > >>>>>>>> > them.  We would all be better off if we all did that IMHO.
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > *In Liberty,*
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> > >>>>> Syndrome
> > >>>>>>>> > (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect
> inter-personal
> > >>>>>>>> > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.
> > If
> > >>>>> anyone
> > >>>>>>>> > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
> > >>>> social
> > >>>>> faux
> > >>>>>>>> > pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 12:44 AM Tim Hagan via Lnc-business
> <
> > >>>>>>>> >> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> Mr. Goldstein is likely already asleep at this late hour, so
> > I'm
> > >>>>>>>> >> forwarding his message for the LNC members who were not at
> > >>>> Monday's
> > >>>>> COC
> > >>>>>>>> >> meeting.
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> Convention Update - Next to last one!
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> On Friday, June 26th the COC was notified by Rosen
> Properties
> > >>>> that
> > >>>>> their
> > >>>>>>>> >> Shingle Creek property was not going to open until
> September.
> > >>>> This
> > >>>>> meant
> > >>>>>>>> >> that our National Convention was in jeopardy and we were in
> > >>>> shock.
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> During that initial discussion we were told that their Rosen
> > >>>> Center
> > >>>>>>>> >> property had never closed and they proposed moving our
> > convention
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>> >> that venue and the adjoining Orange County Convention
> Center.
> > As
> > >>>> of
> > >>>>>>>> >> today we are in possession of an outline of how that will
> > happen
> > >>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>> >> hope to have a contract addendum ready for the LNC's
> approval
> > >>>>> within a
> > >>>>>>>> >> couple days. There will be no additional costs to the
> > Libertarian
> > >>>>> Party
> > >>>>>>>> >> for this change in venue, all added costs for the Convention
> > >>>> Center
> > >>>>> will
> > >>>>>>>> >> be taken care of by Rosen Properties. We will actually have
> a
> > >>>>> larger
> > >>>>>>>> >> main hall at 93k sq ft and more room for exhibits and
> > breakouts.
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> All room reservations made for Shingle Creek will be moved
> to
> > an
> > >>>>>>>> >> equivalent room at the Rosen Center (which was the location
> of
> > >>>> our
> > >>>>> 2016
> > >>>>>>>> >> National Convention). You need not contact the hotel to
> change
> > >>>> your
> > >>>>>>>> >> reservation. Also, all suite upgrades and hospitality rooms
> > will
> > >>>>> also
> > >>>>>>>> >> have similar settings
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> The COC also voted tonight to approve an addendum to the
> > contract
> > >>>>> with
> > >>>>>>>> >> AV Group that will provide a remote convention site for NY,
> NJ
> > >>>> and
> > >>>>> CT
> > >>>>>>>> >> delegates at Syracuse, NY based on discussions with the
> three
> > >>>> state
> > >>>>>>>> >> chairs. This is an option we have been working on for almost
> > two
> > >>>>> months
> > >>>>>>>> >> and had a hard deadline of today to proceed. We did with
> with
> > no
> > >>>>> surety
> > >>>>>>>> >> that the delegates at Orlando will authorize remote
> > participation
> > >>>>> but
> > >>>>>>>> >> with the faith that they will for delegates that cannot
> travel
> > >>>> due
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>> >> government constraints.
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> We are still planning to have a great convention at Orlando
> > next
> > >>>>> week
> > >>>>>>>> >> and look forward to seeing many of you there.
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> Live Free,
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> Sam Goldstein
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> --
> > >>>>>>>> >> Tim Hagan
> > >>>>>>>> >> Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> In Liberty,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>  Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> > Syndrome
> > >>>>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> > >>>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
> > anyone
> > >>>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
> social
> > >>>> faux
> > >>>>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> In Liberty,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>  Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> > Syndrome
> > >>>>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> > >>>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
> > anyone
> > >>>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
> social
> > >>>> faux
> > >>>>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Jun 30, 2020 7:43 AM, "Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair) via
> > >>>> Lnc-business" <
> > >>>>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> 100% this " Debate, vote, accept, work to make a success." 👏👏👏
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Alex Merced
> > >>>>> Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Jun 30, 2020, at 7:59 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
> > >>>> caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> If the in person does not go forward, I do hope we decide to have
> > an
> > >>>>> electronic convention on the same days as people have already
> > arranged
> > >>>> for
> > >>>>> time off work.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 5:53 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <
> > >>>>> caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>>> If the CoC had said they did not wish to do the work necessary I
> > >>>> would
> > >>>>> agree.  They have not, quite the contrary.  I think it would be
> > >>>>> disrespectful of everything they have done not to let them try.
> (As
> > >>>> well as
> > >>>>> to the delegates who want to go)
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> From what I understand all the same safety precautions and room
> > >>>> needed
> > >>>>> is accommodated.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> What this does is a second bite at the apple for those who have
> > >>>> always
> > >>>>> opposed.  There may be other reasons to change one's mind
> > (conditions in
> > >>>>> Florida for example) but this shift isn't anything major.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Everything in the compromise still holds true and the principle
> of
> > >>>>> respecting everyone's choice does as well.  Cancelling while it is
> > still
> > >>>>> possible forecloses the choice of those who want to go.  I think
> we
> > can
> > >>>>> honor all choices.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> That said, we are a deliberative body, and no matter what the
> > >>>> decision
> > >>>>> is, I hope everyone respects it and does not work to sow sour
> grapes
> > or
> > >>>>> undermine as we have seen already over this whole thing.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Debate, vote, accept, work to make a success.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 4:15 AM Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair)
> via
> > >>>>> Lnc-business <lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> Will the OCCC have all the same precautions that the Rosen
> > promised
> > >>>> As
> > >>>>> far safety (its not just size of the rooms).
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I've generally been in support of the compromise because it was
> > >>>>> visible that there was no way the party as a whole could move in
> > either
> > >>>>> direction without causing major schisms but this does raise many
> > >>>> concerns.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> - Even if rooms reservations are moved and a larger main hall
> is
> > >>>>> attained the amount of planning for the space such as tables and
> > >>>> breakout
> > >>>>> rooms, Gala planning etc. that would need to be revisited seems
> like
> > a
> > >>>>> cruel thing to ask the CoC to revisit.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> - I have seen annecdotally noticed several supporters of live
> > >>>>> convention change their mind not to go not cause their view had
> > changed
> > >>>> but
> > >>>>> due to the pressure from family and those around them. While I
> > intend
> > >>>> to be
> > >>>>> their if it happens, I have also seen similar levels of pressure
> > from my
> > >>>>> loved ones.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> - The Rosen was quite adamant about having us and was quite
> sure
> > >>>> they
> > >>>>> would be open that weekend what assurance we have that the OCCC
> will
> > >>>> not do
> > >>>>> the same in the next week and half (I know you can't control the
> > future
> > >>>> but
> > >>>>> at this point, but there comes a point where you can only fight
> > these
> > >>>>> headwinds so much).
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Considering the amount of logistics and timing that is now
> > >>>> reshuffled,
> > >>>>> the changing health environment I think that we can safely invoke
> > >>>>> impossibility/impracticality for the second sitting if we chose
> to.
> > I
> > >>>> don't
> > >>>>> know if this is something we are voting on, or If this ship has
> > sailed
> > >>>> but
> > >>>>> if it comes to a vote that is how I will vote based on current
> > >>>>> circumstances.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I do have nothing but gratitude for the efforts of the CoC to
> > move
> > >>>>> mountains in replanning a convention in 6 weeks and don't wish
> them
> > the
> > >>>>> burden of replanning this in two weeks in a venue without the kind
> > of
> > >>>>> vetting that was given to the Rosen in a fraction of the time.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> If the event does happen, I plan on being there but this is
> where
> > my
> > >>>>> heart is at with the hearing of this new information.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Alex Merced
> > >>>>>>>> Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> > On Jun 30, 2020, at 4:19 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via
> Lnc-business
> > <
> > >>>>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > We need to see an addendum or whatever sooner rather than
> > later.
> > >>>>> The two
> > >>>>>>>> > "sides" are eating each other's faces once again on facebook,
> > and
> > >>>> I
> > >>>>> have
> > >>>>>>>> > died inside over it.
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > People can disagree in good faith.  No matter what happens
> now
> > or
> > >>>>> whenever,
> > >>>>>>>> > I believe it is our job to accept whatever decision we
> > >>>> collectively
> > >>>>> make
> > >>>>>>>> > whether we personally agree or not and work to make whatever
> > that
> > >>>> is
> > >>>>> a
> > >>>>>>>> > success.
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > That is what I intend to do.  I am convinced that the "all or
> > >>>>> nothing"
> > >>>>>>>> > spectrums on both sides are seriously damaging our party.
> > There
> > >>>> is
> > >>>>> no
> > >>>>>>>> > parity.  My position:  I want everyone to get their way.
> Those
> > >>>> who
> > >>>>> wish to
> > >>>>>>>> > attend in person and those who wish to attend remotely, and
> > that
> > >>>> is
> > >>>>> how I
> > >>>>>>>> > will vote on this body and if necessary at any in-person
> > >>>>> convention.  I
> > >>>>>>>> > respect all choices and that people have good faith reasons
> for
> > >>>>> holding
> > >>>>>>>> > them.  We would all be better off if we all did that IMHO.
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > *In Liberty,*
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> > >>>>> Syndrome
> > >>>>>>>> > (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect
> inter-personal
> > >>>>>>>> > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.
> > If
> > >>>>> anyone
> > >>>>>>>> > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
> > >>>> social
> > >>>>> faux
> > >>>>>>>> > pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 12:44 AM Tim Hagan via Lnc-business
> <
> > >>>>>>>> >> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> Mr. Goldstein is likely already asleep at this late hour, so
> > I'm
> > >>>>>>>> >> forwarding his message for the LNC members who were not at
> > >>>> Monday's
> > >>>>> COC
> > >>>>>>>> >> meeting.
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> Convention Update - Next to last one!
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> On Friday, June 26th the COC was notified by Rosen
> Properties
> > >>>> that
> > >>>>> their
> > >>>>>>>> >> Shingle Creek property was not going to open until
> September.
> > >>>> This
> > >>>>> meant
> > >>>>>>>> >> that our National Convention was in jeopardy and we were in
> > >>>> shock.
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> During that initial discussion we were told that their Rosen
> > >>>> Center
> > >>>>>>>> >> property had never closed and they proposed moving our
> > convention
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>> >> that venue and the adjoining Orange County Convention
> Center.
> > As
> > >>>> of
> > >>>>>>>> >> today we are in possession of an outline of how that will
> > happen
> > >>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>> >> hope to have a contract addendum ready for the LNC's
> approval
> > >>>>> within a
> > >>>>>>>> >> couple days. There will be no additional costs to the
> > Libertarian
> > >>>>> Party
> > >>>>>>>> >> for this change in venue, all added costs for the Convention
> > >>>> Center
> > >>>>> will
> > >>>>>>>> >> be taken care of by Rosen Properties. We will actually have
> a
> > >>>>> larger
> > >>>>>>>> >> main hall at 93k sq ft and more room for exhibits and
> > breakouts.
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> All room reservations made for Shingle Creek will be moved
> to
> > an
> > >>>>>>>> >> equivalent room at the Rosen Center (which was the location
> of
> > >>>> our
> > >>>>> 2016
> > >>>>>>>> >> National Convention). You need not contact the hotel to
> change
> > >>>> your
> > >>>>>>>> >> reservation. Also, all suite upgrades and hospitality rooms
> > will
> > >>>>> also
> > >>>>>>>> >> have similar settings
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> The COC also voted tonight to approve an addendum to the
> > contract
> > >>>>> with
> > >>>>>>>> >> AV Group that will provide a remote convention site for NY,
> NJ
> > >>>> and
> > >>>>> CT
> > >>>>>>>> >> delegates at Syracuse, NY based on discussions with the
> three
> > >>>> state
> > >>>>>>>> >> chairs. This is an option we have been working on for almost
> > two
> > >>>>> months
> > >>>>>>>> >> and had a hard deadline of today to proceed. We did with
> with
> > no
> > >>>>> surety
> > >>>>>>>> >> that the delegates at Orlando will authorize remote
> > participation
> > >>>>> but
> > >>>>>>>> >> with the faith that they will for delegates that cannot
> travel
> > >>>> due
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>> >> government constraints.
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> We are still planning to have a great convention at Orlando
> > next
> > >>>>> week
> > >>>>>>>> >> and look forward to seeing many of you there.
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> Live Free,
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> Sam Goldstein
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> --
> > >>>>>>>> >> Tim Hagan
> > >>>>>>>> >> Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> In Liberty,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>  Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> > Syndrome
> > >>>>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> > >>>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
> > anyone
> > >>>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
> social
> > >>>> faux
> > >>>>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> In Liberty,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>  Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> > Syndrome
> > >>>>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> > >>>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
> > anyone
> > >>>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
> social
> > >>>> faux
> > >>>>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Jun 30, 2020 7:43 AM, "Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair) via
> > >>>> Lnc-business" <
> > >>>>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> 100% this " Debate, vote, accept, work to make a success." 👏👏👏
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Alex Merced
> > >>>>> Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> On Jun 30, 2020, at 7:59 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
> > >>>> caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> If the in person does not go forward, I do hope we decide to have
> > an
> > >>>>> electronic convention on the same days as people have already
> > arranged
> > >>>> for
> > >>>>> time off work.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 5:53 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <
> > >>>>> caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>>> If the CoC had said they did not wish to do the work necessary I
> > >>>> would
> > >>>>> agree.  They have not, quite the contrary.  I think it would be
> > >>>>> disrespectful of everything they have done not to let them try.
> (As
> > >>>> well as
> > >>>>> to the delegates who want to go)
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> From what I understand all the same safety precautions and room
> > >>>> needed
> > >>>>> is accommodated.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> What this does is a second bite at the apple for those who have
> > >>>> always
> > >>>>> opposed.  There may be other reasons to change one's mind
> > (conditions in
> > >>>>> Florida for example) but this shift isn't anything major.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Everything in the compromise still holds true and the principle
> of
> > >>>>> respecting everyone's choice does as well.  Cancelling while it is
> > still
> > >>>>> possible forecloses the choice of those who want to go.  I think
> we
> > can
> > >>>>> honor all choices.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> That said, we are a deliberative body, and no matter what the
> > >>>> decision
> > >>>>> is, I hope everyone respects it and does not work to sow sour
> grapes
> > or
> > >>>>> undermine as we have seen already over this whole thing.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> Debate, vote, accept, work to make a success.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 4:15 AM Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair)
> via
> > >>>>> Lnc-business <lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> Will the OCCC have all the same precautions that the Rosen
> > promised
> > >>>> As
> > >>>>> far safety (its not just size of the rooms).
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I've generally been in support of the compromise because it was
> > >>>>> visible that there was no way the party as a whole could move in
> > either
> > >>>>> direction without causing major schisms but this does raise many
> > >>>> concerns.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> - Even if rooms reservations are moved and a larger main hall
> is
> > >>>>> attained the amount of planning for the space such as tables and
> > >>>> breakout
> > >>>>> rooms, Gala planning etc. that would need to be revisited seems
> like
> > a
> > >>>>> cruel thing to ask the CoC to revisit.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> - I have seen annecdotally noticed several supporters of live
> > >>>>> convention change their mind not to go not cause their view had
> > changed
> > >>>> but
> > >>>>> due to the pressure from family and those around them. While I
> > intend
> > >>>> to be
> > >>>>> their if it happens, I have also seen similar levels of pressure
> > from my
> > >>>>> loved ones.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> - The Rosen was quite adamant about having us and was quite
> sure
> > >>>> they
> > >>>>> would be open that weekend what assurance we have that the OCCC
> will
> > >>>> not do
> > >>>>> the same in the next week and half (I know you can't control the
> > future
> > >>>> but
> > >>>>> at this point, but there comes a point where you can only fight
> > these
> > >>>>> headwinds so much).
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Considering the amount of logistics and timing that is now
> > >>>> reshuffled,
> > >>>>> the changing health environment I think that we can safely invoke
> > >>>>> impossibility/impracticality for the second sitting if we chose
> to.
> > I
> > >>>> don't
> > >>>>> know if this is something we are voting on, or If this ship has
> > sailed
> > >>>> but
> > >>>>> if it comes to a vote that is how I will vote based on current
> > >>>>> circumstances.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> I do have nothing but gratitude for the efforts of the CoC to
> > move
> > >>>>> mountains in replanning a convention in 6 weeks and don't wish
> them
> > the
> > >>>>> burden of replanning this in two weeks in a venue without the kind
> > of
> > >>>>> vetting that was given to the Rosen in a fraction of the time.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> If the event does happen, I plan on being there but this is
> where
> > my
> > >>>>> heart is at with the hearing of this new information.
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> Alex Merced
> > >>>>>>>> Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>> > On Jun 30, 2020, at 4:19 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via
> Lnc-business
> > <
> > >>>>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > We need to see an addendum or whatever sooner rather than
> > later.
> > >>>>> The two
> > >>>>>>>> > "sides" are eating each other's faces once again on facebook,
> > and
> > >>>> I
> > >>>>> have
> > >>>>>>>> > died inside over it.
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > People can disagree in good faith.  No matter what happens
> now
> > or
> > >>>>> whenever,
> > >>>>>>>> > I believe it is our job to accept whatever decision we
> > >>>> collectively
> > >>>>> make
> > >>>>>>>> > whether we personally agree or not and work to make whatever
> > that
> > >>>> is
> > >>>>> a
> > >>>>>>>> > success.
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > That is what I intend to do.  I am convinced that the "all or
> > >>>>> nothing"
> > >>>>>>>> > spectrums on both sides are seriously damaging our party.
> > There
> > >>>> is
> > >>>>> no
> > >>>>>>>> > parity.  My position:  I want everyone to get their way.
> Those
> > >>>> who
> > >>>>> wish to
> > >>>>>>>> > attend in person and those who wish to attend remotely, and
> > that
> > >>>> is
> > >>>>> how I
> > >>>>>>>> > will vote on this body and if necessary at any in-person
> > >>>>> convention.  I
> > >>>>>>>> > respect all choices and that people have good faith reasons
> for
> > >>>>> holding
> > >>>>>>>> > them.  We would all be better off if we all did that IMHO.
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > *In Liberty,*
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> > >>>>> Syndrome
> > >>>>>>>> > (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect
> inter-personal
> > >>>>>>>> > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.
> > If
> > >>>>> anyone
> > >>>>>>>> > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
> > >>>> social
> > >>>>> faux
> > >>>>>>>> > pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> >> On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 12:44 AM Tim Hagan via Lnc-business
> <
> > >>>>>>>> >> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> Mr. Goldstein is likely already asleep at this late hour, so
> > I'm
> > >>>>>>>> >> forwarding his message for the LNC members who were not at
> > >>>> Monday's
> > >>>>> COC
> > >>>>>>>> >> meeting.
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> Convention Update - Next to last one!
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> On Friday, June 26th the COC was notified by Rosen
> Properties
> > >>>> that
> > >>>>> their
> > >>>>>>>> >> Shingle Creek property was not going to open until
> September.
> > >>>> This
> > >>>>> meant
> > >>>>>>>> >> that our National Convention was in jeopardy and we were in
> > >>>> shock.
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> During that initial discussion we were told that their Rosen
> > >>>> Center
> > >>>>>>>> >> property had never closed and they proposed moving our
> > convention
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>> >> that venue and the adjoining Orange County Convention
> Center.
> > As
> > >>>> of
> > >>>>>>>> >> today we are in possession of an outline of how that will
> > happen
> > >>>>> and
> > >>>>>>>> >> hope to have a contract addendum ready for the LNC's
> approval
> > >>>>> within a
> > >>>>>>>> >> couple days. There will be no additional costs to the
> > Libertarian
> > >>>>> Party
> > >>>>>>>> >> for this change in venue, all added costs for the Convention
> > >>>> Center
> > >>>>> will
> > >>>>>>>> >> be taken care of by Rosen Properties. We will actually have
> a
> > >>>>> larger
> > >>>>>>>> >> main hall at 93k sq ft and more room for exhibits and
> > breakouts.
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> All room reservations made for Shingle Creek will be moved
> to
> > an
> > >>>>>>>> >> equivalent room at the Rosen Center (which was the location
> of
> > >>>> our
> > >>>>> 2016
> > >>>>>>>> >> National Convention). You need not contact the hotel to
> change
> > >>>> your
> > >>>>>>>> >> reservation. Also, all suite upgrades and hospitality rooms
> > will
> > >>>>> also
> > >>>>>>>> >> have similar settings
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> The COC also voted tonight to approve an addendum to the
> > contract
> > >>>>> with
> > >>>>>>>> >> AV Group that will provide a remote convention site for NY,
> NJ
> > >>>> and
> > >>>>> CT
> > >>>>>>>> >> delegates at Syracuse, NY based on discussions with the
> three
> > >>>> state
> > >>>>>>>> >> chairs. This is an option we have been working on for almost
> > two
> > >>>>> months
> > >>>>>>>> >> and had a hard deadline of today to proceed. We did with
> with
> > no
> > >>>>> surety
> > >>>>>>>> >> that the delegates at Orlando will authorize remote
> > participation
> > >>>>> but
> > >>>>>>>> >> with the faith that they will for delegates that cannot
> travel
> > >>>> due
> > >>>>> to
> > >>>>>>>> >> government constraints.
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> We are still planning to have a great convention at Orlando
> > next
> > >>>>> week
> > >>>>>>>> >> and look forward to seeing many of you there.
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> Live Free,
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> Sam Goldstein
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>> >> --
> > >>>>>>>> >> Tim Hagan
> > >>>>>>>> >> Treasurer, Libertarian National Committee
> > >>>>>>>> >>
> > >>>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>> In Liberty,
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>  Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> > Syndrome
> > >>>>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> > >>>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
> > anyone
> > >>>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
> social
> > >>>> faux
> > >>>>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know.
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> In Liberty,
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>  Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> > Syndrome
> > >>>>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> > >>>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
> > anyone
> > >>>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
> social
> > >>>> faux
> > >>>>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>> --
> > >>>
> > >>> *In Liberty,*
> > >>>
> > >>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> Syndrome
> > >>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> > >>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
> > anyone
> > >>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
> > faux
> > >>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>
> > >> *In Liberty,*
> > >>
> > >> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> Syndrome
> > >> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> > >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
> anyone
> > >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
> > faux
> > >> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> >
> >
> >
> > --
>
> *In Liberty,*
>
> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>
>
>
>
>