[Lnc-business] Update from Illinois

Wed Jul 1 15:26:32 EDT 2020

It was a simplistic poison pill poll.

Do you want to go from a nice hotel to a county building with no further
details.

Way to salt the soup.  So tired of these bullsh*t political games.

On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 1:21 PM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business <
lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:

> It would be silly to ask the delegates a question about whether they
> approve of the move from Shingle Creek to Rosen Centre, as it is only one
> dimension of a multi-dimensional decision.  They don't have the information
> to know whether it's an apples-to-apples deal, what the financial
> implications are for the party if we don't accept it.  They'll likely say
> no because Shingle Creek is a nicer place, and why wouldn't they prefer a
> nicer place?  That's all they'll consider if we asked such a question.
>
> It's a lovely thought that we can just recover damages from Rosen, but in
> reality we could easily be out-of-pocket as much in litigation costs as
> we'd recover in damages, and it could take a couple of years to do that.
> Even if we also recovered litigation costs, we'd be out the cash in the
> meantime, and we don't really have cash to spare.
>
> The COC has little choice but to proceed with the assumption that we're
> moving ahead with Orlando.  The LNC has not cancelled.  The hotel is
> offering us an alternative at a facility we have previously found to be
> acceptable (though we didn't use the OCCC in 2016).  Some delegate room
> reservations start in 2 days.  Other delegates are on the verge of starting
> to drive or take trains to Orlando.  We are having to incur some costs this
> week, else we lose the opportunity to have those things happen at all when
> the convention proceeds.
>
> It is hard to pin down the financial result if the event were to be
> cancelled.  Some expenditures can't be recovered unless the hotel is made
> to repay us for them.  We don't know how many delegates would ask for
> refunds.  Because of the terms of our credit card processing contract, we
> would eat the credit card fees on those refunds.  We don't have the cash to
> refund all the funds collected because even after I pointed out that the
> convention funds were being raided for deficit spending in party
> operations, the LNC would not act quickly to stop the problem from getting
> worse...and it did get worse before the LNC finally acted.  We would lose
> the opportunity for general party fundraising which is often a large boost
> to our ballot access efforts in presidential years.  It's all a giant
> question mark, but it leans toward negative impact.  It is the duty of LNC
> members to weigh all of these factors and many more (like impact on
> delegates with sunk costs) and not just make a knee-jerk reaction to a
> single factor.
>
> Managing the party assets is one of our key duties.  The LNC is not in
> great financial shape.  The best financial result for us is to either have
> them honor the Shingle Creek deal, or accept an alternative with Rosen
> Centre / OCCC so long as we aren't responsible for costs we would not have
> incurred in the original deal.  The COC has a bullet list from last night's
> meeting for what else they need to do for us, and I know that is being
> actively addressed today.
>
> -Alicia
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 10:58 AM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
> > I do think it is highly possible to recover those costs from Rosen.
> > Nothing is a slam dunk in the legal word.  I want to be clear - I think
> > they dealt us dirty and that Mr. Rosen blew smoke up our rears and broke
> a
> > promise.  I keep hearing we cannot cancel because we will taint that
> > relationship.  It is already tainted by his breaking his word.  He put us
> > in this situation.  That is a simple fact, and I do not forgive that.
> >
> > That does not excuse us however from fulfilling the vote of the
> delegates,
> > but have no doubts, I will want to pursue the fullest recovery from Rosen
> > if it comes to that.
> >
> > *In Liberty,*
> >
> > * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
> > (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
> > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
> > pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 11:42 AM erin.adams--- via Lnc-business <
> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> >
> > > For US to pay *
> > >
> > > Erin Adams Region 7 alt.
> > >
> > > On Jul 1, 2020 12:41 PM, erin.adams at lp.org wrote:
> > >
> > > I think they are obligated to pay US because they are in breech in an
> > > amount sufficient for US to AVG and other incurred expenses
> > >
> > > Erin Adams Region 7 alt.
> > >
> > > On Jul 1, 2020 12:38 PM, Sam Goldstein via Lnc-business <
> > > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Do you think that Rosen is obligated to pay AVG if they are in breach?
> > > I'd love to hear a legal opinion from Mr. Hall about what we could
> > > recover from Rosen with or without litigation.
> > >
> > > ---
> > > Sam Goldstein, At Large Member
> > > Libertarian National Committee
> > > Convention Oversight Committee
> > > 317-850-0726 Cell
> > >
> > > On 2020-07-01 13:07, Daniel Fishman wrote:
> > >
> > > > That just ain't so Sam -- unless we agree to accept their
> alternative,
> > > they are in breach. Our reason is we want to be at Shingle Creek which
> > was
> > > what they promised. And they aren't going to give it to us.
> > > >
> > > > I think a poll of the delegates is warranted. I'm adding Tim's
> > > language.  I welcome other suggestions.
> > > >
> > > > ---
> > > > Daniel Fishman
> > > > Executive Director
> > > > The Libertarian Party
> > > > Join Us [1]
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 12:51 PM Sam Goldstein <sam.goldstein at lp.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Perhaps you should include in that poll the LP will be in the hole
> > > >> somewhere over $100k if we cancel at this late date just because we
> > > want
> > > >> to without a reason covered by the Force Majeure clause in the AVG
> > > >> contract in addition to other costs.
> > > >>
> > > >> ---
> > > >> Sam Goldstein, At Large Member
> > > >> Libertarian National Committee
> > > >> Convention Oversight Committee
> > > >> 317-850-0726 Cell
> > > >>
> > > >> On 2020-07-01 12:39, Daniel Fishman via Lnc-business wrote:
> > > >>> Suggested poll to the delegates:
> > > >>>
> > > >>> 1 - Are you currently planning to attend the second sitting
> > in-person?
> > > >>> 2 -
> > > >>> Do you support: - Relocating the second sitting to the Orange
> County
> > > >>> Convention Center - Cancellation of the in-person second sitting
> and
> > > >>> resuming business online
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> ---
> > > >>> Daniel Fishman
> > > >>> Executive Director
> > > >>> The Libertarian Party
> > > >>> Join Us <http://www.lp.org/join>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 12:17 PM William Redpath via Lnc-business <
> > > >>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> I just spoke with LPIL Chair and Delegation Chair Steve Suess.
> The
> > > >>>> LPIL
> > > >>>> had a full slate of 37 delegates for the national convention.  Of
> > > >>>> those,
> > > >>>> he says, now only 5 are going to Orlando (I know, probably not all
> > 37
> > > >>>> would have gone to Austin, but still...).  And, we've got a week
> to
> > > go
> > > >>>> for possible further attrition.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I don't know the economics of this convention well enough to
> > > >>>> prognosticate what the LNC should do to maximize its gain or
> > minimize
> > > >>>> its loss from this convention, but could it be that cancellation
> is
> > > >>>> the
> > > >>>> least bad financial option at this point?  I don't know.  I will
> > > leave
> > > >>>> it to Bette Rose, et al. to number crunch that.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> A fair amount has been made on this list about potential delegate
> > > >>>> personal financial losses.  As sportscaster Warner Wolf used to
> say,
> > > >>>> "Let's go to the videotape!"
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Delegates can ask for their convention package payment back (many
> > > will
> > > >>>> not, and fewer will, if we ask nicely).  They can cancel the hotel
> > at
> > > >>>> no
> > > >>>> penalty at this time.  They may not get a refund from their
> airline
> > > >>>> ticket but will almost certainly get full credit on a future
> ticket
> > > to
> > > >>>> be used over the next year or two.  I think very few people would
> > > >>>> suffer
> > > >>>> economic loss, and there might be a net economic gain if the
> > employed
> > > >>>> save some vacation days.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Don't necessarily look to hotel reservations to judge
> attendance.  I
> > > >>>> surmise that many reservations have not been cancelled yet.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> The "Will of the Delegates" did vote for a second sitting in
> > > >>>> Orlando--over a tenth of a year ago.  A lot has happened since
> then
> > > >>>> that
> > > >>>> could not have been foreseen.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Yes, some people are speaking up loudly on both sides of this
> issue,
> > > >>>> but
> > > >>>> what does the actual body of delegates think NOW?  That is the
> truly
> > > >>>> relevant question, and if it is to go forward with the second
> > sitting
> > > >>>> in
> > > >>>> Orlando, so be it.  However, if that were to occur without remote
> > > >>>> access, so that delegates can participate in the convention from
> > > >>>> wherever they are, that would have very harmful ramifications for
> > the
> > > >>>> LP.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I do think a poll of the delegates should be taken again ASAP to
> > > >>>> ascertain across all delegations #1) what are their current
> > > attendance
> > > >>>> plans?, and #2) do they want the second sitting to occur July
> 9-12?
> > > I
> > > >>>> think #1 is far more important than #2 in forming a decision.
> After
> > > >>>> all, what is going to happen if only one-seventh of the
> credentialed
> > > >>>> delegates show?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I think all of us greatly respect the convention knowledge and
> very
> > > >>>> hard
> > > >>>> work of the COC for both Austin and Orlando, and I would very much
> > > >>>> regret little to nothing ultimately coming of it in 2020.  But, I
> > > >>>> think
> > > >>>> there is still time, for the overall good of the Libertarian
> Party,
> > > to
> > > >>>> get a good handle on what all of the delegates are thinking right
> > > now,
> > > >>>> and that could be effected very quickly.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Bill Redpath
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On 2020-06-30 23:09, john.phillips--- via Lnc-business wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> You remember I already did that ;)
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Teasing aside, I 100% support this and wholeheartedly sign on.
> > > Thank you
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> John Phillips
> > > >>>>> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
> > > >>>>> Cell 217-412-5973
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> On Jun 30, 2020 11:02 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
> > > >>>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>> I call upon my fellow LNC members to promise to support and work
> > > for
> > > >>>> remote
> > > >>>>>> participation if the in person convention goes forward.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> I do so pledge.
> > > >>>>>>
> > > >>>>>> *  In Liberty,*
> > > >>>>>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
> > > Syndrome
> > > >>>>>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> > > >>>>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If
> > > anyone
> > > >>>>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
> > > social
> > > >>>> faux
> > > >>>>>> pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me
> > > know.  *
> > > >>>>
> > >
> > >
> > > Links:
> > > ------
> > > [1] http://www.lp.org/join
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
-- 

*In Liberty,*

* Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
(part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *