[Lnc-business] Update from Illinois

[Caryn Ann Harlos]

Just told by a delegate that they thought it meant Orange County California
and voted no.

That’s what you get when you rush out a poll!

On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 1:26 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org>
wrote:

> It was a simplistic poison pill poll.
>
> Do you want to go from a nice hotel to a county building with no further
> details.
>
> Way to salt the soup.  So tired of these bullsh*t political games.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 1:21 PM Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business <
> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>
>> It would be silly to ask the delegates a question about whether they
>> approve of the move from Shingle Creek to Rosen Centre, as it is only one
>> dimension of a multi-dimensional decision.  They don't have the
>> information
>> to know whether it's an apples-to-apples deal, what the financial
>> implications are for the party if we don't accept it.  They'll likely say
>> no because Shingle Creek is a nicer place, and why wouldn't they prefer a
>> nicer place?  That's all they'll consider if we asked such a question.
>>
>> It's a lovely thought that we can just recover damages from Rosen, but in
>> reality we could easily be out-of-pocket as much in litigation costs as
>> we'd recover in damages, and it could take a couple of years to do that.
>> Even if we also recovered litigation costs, we'd be out the cash in the
>> meantime, and we don't really have cash to spare.
>>
>> The COC has little choice but to proceed with the assumption that we're
>> moving ahead with Orlando.  The LNC has not cancelled.  The hotel is
>> offering us an alternative at a facility we have previously found to be
>> acceptable (though we didn't use the OCCC in 2016).  Some delegate room
>> reservations start in 2 days.  Other delegates are on the verge of
>> starting
>> to drive or take trains to Orlando.  We are having to incur some costs
>> this
>> week, else we lose the opportunity to have those things happen at all when
>> the convention proceeds.
>>
>> It is hard to pin down the financial result if the event were to be
>> cancelled.  Some expenditures can't be recovered unless the hotel is made
>> to repay us for them.  We don't know how many delegates would ask for
>> refunds.  Because of the terms of our credit card processing contract, we
>> would eat the credit card fees on those refunds.  We don't have the cash
>> to
>> refund all the funds collected because even after I pointed out that the
>> convention funds were being raided for deficit spending in party
>> operations, the LNC would not act quickly to stop the problem from getting
>> worse...and it did get worse before the LNC finally acted.  We would lose
>> the opportunity for general party fundraising which is often a large boost
>> to our ballot access efforts in presidential years.  It's all a giant
>> question mark, but it leans toward negative impact.  It is the duty of LNC
>> members to weigh all of these factors and many more (like impact on
>> delegates with sunk costs) and not just make a knee-jerk reaction to a
>> single factor.
>>
>> Managing the party assets is one of our key duties.  The LNC is not in
>> great financial shape.  The best financial result for us is to either have
>> them honor the Shingle Creek deal, or accept an alternative with Rosen
>> Centre / OCCC so long as we aren't responsible for costs we would not have
>> incurred in the original deal.  The COC has a bullet list from last
>> night's
>> meeting for what else they need to do for us, and I know that is being
>> actively addressed today.
>>
>> -Alicia
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 10:58 AM Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>>
>> > I do think it is highly possible to recover those costs from Rosen.
>> > Nothing is a slam dunk in the legal word.  I want to be clear - I think
>> > they dealt us dirty and that Mr. Rosen blew smoke up our rears and
>> broke a
>> > promise.  I keep hearing we cannot cancel because we will taint that
>> > relationship.  It is already tainted by his breaking his word.  He put
>> us
>> > in this situation.  That is a simple fact, and I do not forgive that.
>> >
>> > That does not excuse us however from fulfilling the vote of the
>> delegates,
>> > but have no doubts, I will want to pursue the fullest recovery from
>> Rosen
>> > if it comes to that.
>> >
>> > *In Liberty,*
>> >
>> > * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
>> > (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>> > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
>> > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
>> faux
>> > pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 11:42 AM erin.adams--- via Lnc-business <
>> > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > > For US to pay *
>> > >
>> > > Erin Adams Region 7 alt.
>> > >
>> > > On Jul 1, 2020 12:41 PM, erin.adams at lp.org wrote:
>> > >
>> > > I think they are obligated to pay US because they are in breech in an
>> > > amount sufficient for US to AVG and other incurred expenses
>> > >
>> > > Erin Adams Region 7 alt.
>> > >
>> > > On Jul 1, 2020 12:38 PM, Sam Goldstein via Lnc-business <
>> > > lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Do you think that Rosen is obligated to pay AVG if they are in breach?
>> > > I'd love to hear a legal opinion from Mr. Hall about what we could
>> > > recover from Rosen with or without litigation.
>> > >
>> > > ---
>> > > Sam Goldstein, At Large Member
>> > > Libertarian National Committee
>> > > Convention Oversight Committee
>> > > 317-850-0726 Cell
>> > >
>> > > On 2020-07-01 13:07, Daniel Fishman wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > That just ain't so Sam -- unless we agree to accept their
>> alternative,
>> > > they are in breach. Our reason is we want to be at Shingle Creek which
>> > was
>> > > what they promised. And they aren't going to give it to us.
>> > > >
>> > > > I think a poll of the delegates is warranted. I'm adding Tim's
>> > > language.  I welcome other suggestions.
>> > > >
>> > > > ---
>> > > > Daniel Fishman
>> > > > Executive Director
>> > > > The Libertarian Party
>> > > > Join Us [1]
>> > > >
>> > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 12:51 PM Sam Goldstein <sam.goldstein at lp.org
>> >
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> Perhaps you should include in that poll the LP will be in the hole
>> > > >> somewhere over $100k if we cancel at this late date just because we
>> > > want
>> > > >> to without a reason covered by the Force Majeure clause in the AVG
>> > > >> contract in addition to other costs.
>> > > >>
>> > > >> ---
>> > > >> Sam Goldstein, At Large Member
>> > > >> Libertarian National Committee
>> > > >> Convention Oversight Committee
>> > > >> 317-850-0726 Cell
>> > > >>
>> > > >> On 2020-07-01 12:39, Daniel Fishman via Lnc-business wrote:
>> > > >>> Suggested poll to the delegates:
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> 1 - Are you currently planning to attend the second sitting
>> > in-person?
>> > > >>> 2 -
>> > > >>> Do you support: - Relocating the second sitting to the Orange
>> County
>> > > >>> Convention Center - Cancellation of the in-person second sitting
>> and
>> > > >>> resuming business online
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> ---
>> > > >>> Daniel Fishman
>> > > >>> Executive Director
>> > > >>> The Libertarian Party
>> > > >>> Join Us <http://www.lp.org/join>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>> On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 12:17 PM William Redpath via Lnc-business <
>> > > >>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> > > >>>
>> > > >>>> I just spoke with LPIL Chair and Delegation Chair Steve Suess.
>> The
>> > > >>>> LPIL
>> > > >>>> had a full slate of 37 delegates for the national convention.  Of
>> > > >>>> those,
>> > > >>>> he says, now only 5 are going to Orlando (I know, probably not
>> all
>> > 37
>> > > >>>> would have gone to Austin, but still...).  And, we've got a week
>> to
>> > > go
>> > > >>>> for possible further attrition.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> I don't know the economics of this convention well enough to
>> > > >>>> prognosticate what the LNC should do to maximize its gain or
>> > minimize
>> > > >>>> its loss from this convention, but could it be that cancellation
>> is
>> > > >>>> the
>> > > >>>> least bad financial option at this point?  I don't know.  I will
>> > > leave
>> > > >>>> it to Bette Rose, et al. to number crunch that.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> A fair amount has been made on this list about potential delegate
>> > > >>>> personal financial losses.  As sportscaster Warner Wolf used to
>> say,
>> > > >>>> "Let's go to the videotape!"
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Delegates can ask for their convention package payment back (many
>> > > will
>> > > >>>> not, and fewer will, if we ask nicely).  They can cancel the
>> hotel
>> > at
>> > > >>>> no
>> > > >>>> penalty at this time.  They may not get a refund from their
>> airline
>> > > >>>> ticket but will almost certainly get full credit on a future
>> ticket
>> > > to
>> > > >>>> be used over the next year or two.  I think very few people would
>> > > >>>> suffer
>> > > >>>> economic loss, and there might be a net economic gain if the
>> > employed
>> > > >>>> save some vacation days.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Don't necessarily look to hotel reservations to judge
>> attendance.  I
>> > > >>>> surmise that many reservations have not been cancelled yet.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> The "Will of the Delegates" did vote for a second sitting in
>> > > >>>> Orlando--over a tenth of a year ago.  A lot has happened since
>> then
>> > > >>>> that
>> > > >>>> could not have been foreseen.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Yes, some people are speaking up loudly on both sides of this
>> issue,
>> > > >>>> but
>> > > >>>> what does the actual body of delegates think NOW?  That is the
>> truly
>> > > >>>> relevant question, and if it is to go forward with the second
>> > sitting
>> > > >>>> in
>> > > >>>> Orlando, so be it.  However, if that were to occur without remote
>> > > >>>> access, so that delegates can participate in the convention from
>> > > >>>> wherever they are, that would have very harmful ramifications for
>> > the
>> > > >>>> LP.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> I do think a poll of the delegates should be taken again ASAP to
>> > > >>>> ascertain across all delegations #1) what are their current
>> > > attendance
>> > > >>>> plans?, and #2) do they want the second sitting to occur July
>> 9-12?
>> > > I
>> > > >>>> think #1 is far more important than #2 in forming a decision.
>> After
>> > > >>>> all, what is going to happen if only one-seventh of the
>> credentialed
>> > > >>>> delegates show?
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> I think all of us greatly respect the convention knowledge and
>> very
>> > > >>>> hard
>> > > >>>> work of the COC for both Austin and Orlando, and I would very
>> much
>> > > >>>> regret little to nothing ultimately coming of it in 2020.  But, I
>> > > >>>> think
>> > > >>>> there is still time, for the overall good of the Libertarian
>> Party,
>> > > to
>> > > >>>> get a good handle on what all of the delegates are thinking right
>> > > now,
>> > > >>>> and that could be effected very quickly.
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> Bill Redpath
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>> On 2020-06-30 23:09, john.phillips--- via Lnc-business wrote:
>> > > >>>>
>> > > >>>>> You remember I already did that ;)
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> Teasing aside, I 100% support this and wholeheartedly sign on.
>> > > Thank you
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> John Phillips
>> > > >>>>> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
>> > > >>>>> Cell 217-412-5973
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>> On Jun 30, 2020 11:02 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
>> > > >>>> lnc-business at hq.lp.org> wrote:
>> > > >>>>>
>> > > >>>>>> I call upon my fellow LNC members to promise to support and
>> work
>> > > for
>> > > >>>> remote
>> > > >>>>>> participation if the in person convention goes forward.
>> > > >>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>> I do so pledge.
>> > > >>>>>>
>> > > >>>>>> *  In Liberty,*
>> > > >>>>>> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
>> > > Syndrome
>> > > >>>>>> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
>> > > >>>>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.
>> If
>> > > anyone
>> > > >>>>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
>> > > social
>> > > >>>> faux
>> > > >>>>>> pas) in an actual email, please contact me privately and let me
>> > > know.  *
>> > > >>>>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Links:
>> > > ------
>> > > [1] http://www.lp.org/join
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
> --
>
> *In Liberty,*
>
> * Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
> (part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
>
> --

*In Liberty,*

* Personal Note:  I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
(part of the autism spectrum).  This can affect inter-personal
communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas.  If anyone
found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *