[Lnc-business] A few words about the Convention
Susan Hogarth
susan.hogarth at lp.org
Thu Jul 2 10:51:03 EDT 2020
I have a zoom meeting running. I’m at work and will check in as often as I can. If we want to agree to a time to meet, great. If people just want to drop in for discussion, also great.
https://us04web.zoom.us/j/7256645981?pwd=ZmpmdWY3bUxUWXNsM1pDVmV5N2ZCdz09
We need to start discussion sooner rather than later, and email is not the best option. I would particularly like to discuss the option of declaring all verified delegates who are ‘checked in’ (remotely or on-site) as credentialed, voting delegates from the start.
Susan Jane Hogarth
Region 5 Representative
Libertarian National Committee
susan.hogarth at lp.org
919-906-2106 (tel:919-906-2106)
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> On Jul 2, 2020 at 9:43 AM, <john.phillips--- via Lnc-business (mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org)> wrote:
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> Ahhh, but that is just a limitation on what our options are, not that we cannot discuss it at all.
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> Apologies for any misunderstanding, I was referring to what appeared to be a statement that we cannot do anything, not making any argument about what that should be.
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> The full language does only list date and time, place is not listed.
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> I will let others argue the details and meaning of that, but I still say that not moving as quickly as possible we are being derelict in our duties to our members. We as a body, understanding that most of us are ready to have a meeting.
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> John Phillips
> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
> Cell 217-412-5973
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> On Jul 1, 2020 11:49 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org> wrote:
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> > That is not what was passed. It was passed for the LNC to set another location and date if necessary (and it is always implicit, if possible). It was not to cancel. I am deeply disturbed that we are trying to find a way to wiggle around what they clearly wanted. It reminds me of the attempts to say the SoP really didn't require a 7/8 by parliamentary maneuvering to find a back door that was never intended. It is wrong, and I believe, fraudulent.
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> > In Liberty,
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> > Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know.
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> > On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 9:15 PM <john.phillips at lp.org (mailto:john.phillips at lp.org)> wrote:
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> > > I understand following the will of the delegates. I agree.
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> > > I will point out though that that will expressed in the vote to adjourn also included language that allowed for us to make a change if necessary.
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> > > So the gist to me is they said "we want to do it there and then, unless crap happens, at which point we need the LNC to make a call."
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> > > As such, I ask again for the chair to please vote on the motion so we can do as the delegates asked.
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> > > John Phillips
> > > Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
> > > Cell 217-412-5973
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> > >
> > > On Jul 1, 2020 12:02 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org (mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org)> wrote:
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> > > > I am appalled that some of my colleagues are taking the position of default that we cancel unless it can be proven the delegates still want it. That is a load of paternalistic garbage. The default should be that the delegates meant what they said. We have lost our way and our principles.
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> > > > We are a bottom up organization. With all due respect to state chairs, no poll of them can override delegates either. They are not kings any more than we are.
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> > > > The delegates decided. It is less than a week. I am finding the former criticisms of our chair hypocritical on the part of some. At least he only defied the LNC. The LNC is trying to defy the delegates.
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> > > > In Liberty,
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> > > > Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know.
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> > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 10:10 PM <john.phillips at lp.org (mailto:john.phillips at lp.org)> wrote:
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> > > > > Silly people. I agree with you 1000%.
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> > > > > John Phillips
> > > > > Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
> > > > > Cell 217-412-5973
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Jun 30, 2020 11:01 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org (mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org)> wrote:
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> > > > > > This is the paragraph I endorse absent a clear poll from the delegates who gave us our marching orders that they are rescinding them.
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> > > > > > ====
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> > > > > > I trust that the Convention Oversight Committee will ensure that all the
> > > > > > events are a success, that the LNC will vote to support the bylaws proposal
> > > > > > for full online participation for any delegates who wish to participate
> > > > > > remotely for whatever reason, and that the LNC will meet to make a pro
> > > > > > forma change to the location to be the Rosen Center. I trust that everyone
> > > > > > will work together to make sure that the party upholds its commitments and
> > > > > > works with our counterparty to fulfill our contract. I trust that people
> > > > > > will stop fighting about whether the convention will be a success, and
> > > > > > start working to make sure it is a success.
> > > > > > ===
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> > > > > > In Liberty,
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> > > > > > Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know.
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> > > > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 9:57 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org (mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org)> wrote:
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> > > > > > > Okay. I have gotten more messages about being the chair cat's paw.
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> > > > > > > I am not stupid. I know what he said in his video and what multiple people took from what he said in his video.
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> > > > > > > This is NOT really about the delegates. Up until this happened our chair was constantly undermining an in-person convention. This is an about face without saying he changed his mind.
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> > > > > > > He openly said why he is making this move. He has his heart set on carrying out threats to denounce his political enemies from the floor. That is why he is refusing to chair. I trust our delegates to see that for the petty move it would be just as they saw through the tantrum at the end of the online convention. This is just more of the culture of threats that people have spoken out about.
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> > > > > > > So yes I understand I am enabling his plans. I don't care. I know what my motives are. And I trust the delegates. Going negative at convention backfires. You know who taught me that originally? Our chair ironically enough in relating to me a past race that was for all intents and purposes won until the presumptive winner went negative and turned off the delegates.
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> > > > > > > I see our conventions as a way to come together, and I hope the chair better nature prevails and he not use it to divie.
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> > > > > > > In Liberty,
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> > > > > > > Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know.
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> > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 6:14 PM <john.phillips at lp.org (mailto:john.phillips at lp.org)> wrote:
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> > > > > > > > Yep. Which is why I made no judgement on his conclusion.
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> > > > > > > > John Phillips
> > > > > > > > Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
> > > > > > > > Cell 217-412-5973
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Jun 30, 2020 6:59 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <lnc-business at hq.lp.org (mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org)> wrote:
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> > > > > > > > > Mr Phillips I did have disagreements with the characterization of sine
> > > > > > > > > pints by the chair such as his very false equivalence if talking about
> > > > > > > > > cancelling when it clearly wasn’t on the table and already been decided and
> > > > > > > > > what is going on now. In that you are correct. The gaslighting continues.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > However the arch of his reasoning is correct. I honestly don’t care why he
> > > > > > > > > is taking this position. I have had alarmed messages telling me the chair
> > > > > > > > > is playing me.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I don’t bother with 4-D chess bull crap. I am a simple woman. What is
> > > > > > > > > right and what is wrong. I let God worry about the motivations of the
> > > > > > > > > heart.
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> > > > > > > > > The delegates spoke. We are not their daddy to overrule them.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 5:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org (mailto:caryn.ann.harlos at lp.org)>
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I agree with the chair and applaud his reasoning.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > My loyalty is with what’s right and what’s wrong.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The chair is right.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The delegates voted for this. We don’t have the right to overrule them
> > > > > > > > > > when it is still possible.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If there was a revote showing the delegates gave the LNC new marching
> > > > > > > > > > orders, I would revisit.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > But right now they haven’t.
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> > > > > > > > > > And we must all vow to support full remote participation.
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> > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 4:27 PM Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business <
> > > > > > > > > > lnc-business at hq.lp.org (mailto:lnc-business at hq.lp.org)> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >> Dear All,
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> With the news from the Rosen Group that Shingle Creek will not be
> > > > > > > > > >> available, we are working to move to an alternate venue in Orlando, the
> > > > > > > > > >> Rosen Center combined with the Convention Center, to hold the second
> > > > > > > > > >> sitting of the national convention. That involves negotiations regarding
> > > > > > > > > >> an
> > > > > > > > > >> addendum to the convention contract to reflect any concessions or changes.
> > > > > > > > > >> Our position in those negotiations is not improved by members of the
> > > > > > > > > >> Libertarian National Convention agitating to cancel the entire convention
> > > > > > > > > >> contract.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> Less than a month ago, my integrity was questioned and people speculated
> > > > > > > > > >> that I was lying about doing everything in my power to ensure that there
> > > > > > > > > >> would be a second sitting of the convention in Orlando. If you doubted my
> > > > > > > > > >> resolve then, do not doubt it now; I will do everything I can to ensure
> > > > > > > > > >> that we have a second sitting for the delegates who wish to attend and to
> > > > > > > > > >> not waste all of the work that the Convention Oversight Committee has done
> > > > > > > > > >> to get us to this point.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> We have received assurances from the CoC for months that everything was
> > > > > > > > > >> under control for an in-person convention, that all precautions would be
> > > > > > > > > >> taken, that regulations weren't being enforced or didn't matter, and that
> > > > > > > > > >> even talking about cancelling the convention was an attempt to make the
> > > > > > > > > >> convention fail. They went so far as to explicitly prevent me from using
> > > > > > > > > >> the “cancellation or force majeure clauses in the contract with Rosen.”
> > > > > > > > > >> Even though I told everyone that I've never executed a contract in bad
> > > > > > > > > >> faith in my life, still some doubted my commitment to follow through.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> Doubt no more.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> I trust that the Convention Oversight Committee will ensure that all the
> > > > > > > > > >> events are a success, that the LNC will vote to support the bylaws
> > > > > > > > > >> proposal
> > > > > > > > > >> for full online participation for any delegates who wish to participate
> > > > > > > > > >> remotely for whatever reason, and that the LNC will meet to make a pro
> > > > > > > > > >> forma change to the location to be the Rosen Center. I trust that everyone
> > > > > > > > > >> will work together to make sure that the party upholds its commitments and
> > > > > > > > > >> works with our counterparty to fulfill our contract. I trust that people
> > > > > > > > > >> will stop fighting about whether the convention will be a success, and
> > > > > > > > > >> start working to make sure it is a success.
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > >> See you in Orlando,
> > > > > > > > > >> Nick
> > > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > *In Liberty,*
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
> > > > > > > > > > (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal
> > > > > > > > > > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone
> > > > > > > > > > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
> > > > > > > > > > pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > *In Liberty,*
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
> > > > > > > > > (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal
> > > > > > > > > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone
> > > > > > > > > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
> > > > > > > > > pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
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