<div dir="ltr"><div><div>DING! That's the sound of the accrual of Joshua's point.<br><br></div>Readers may have wondered how small is a "small board"? In this case, "small" is a group of about 12 or fewer people. By that standard, even accounting for the imprecision of the word "about", the LNC is a large board.<br><br></div>-Alicia<br><br><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 10, 2015 at 6:23 AM, Joshua Katz <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:planning4liberty@gmail.com" target="_blank">planning4liberty@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr">Seconds are not needed in small boards and committees. Since committees and boards are designed to give full consideration and more open discussion- see the motion for the previous question being out of order- any motion can be put to the body. Additionally it is less troublesome to put forth motion without support in a small body. Also as noted the absence of a second is always immaterial once debate has begun. </p>
<p dir="ltr">By the way, the UCLA student association would have a lot less trouble right now if they kept proper minutes and didn't include everything said. </p><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mar 10, 2015 3:03 AM, "Alicia Mattson" <<a href="mailto:agmattson@gmail.com" target="_blank">agmattson@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>I'm awarding Daniel Hayes a point for that answer!<br><br></div><div>I'll award another point to the first person to explain why seconds aren't even technically needed in EC meetings. :-)<br></div><div><br></div><div>And then for those interested in building their RONR skills, seconds are often less important critters than you might think. For instance, this passage spans pages 36-37 of RONR:<br><br><div style="margin-left:40px">"The requirement of a second is for the chair's guidance as to whether he should state the question on the motion, thus placing it before the assembly. Its purpose is to prevent time from being consumed by the assembly's having to dispose of a motion that only one person wants to see introduced. <br></div><br><div style="margin-left:40px">In handling routine motions, less attention is paid to the requirement of a second. If the chair is certain that a motion meets with wide approval but members are slow in seconding it, he can state the question without waiting for a second. However, until debate has begun in such a case—or, if there is no debate, until the chair begins to take the vote and any member has voted—a point of order (see 23) can be raised that the motion has not been seconded; and then the chair must proceed formally and ask if there is a second. Such a point of order should not be made only for the sake of form, if it is clear that more than one member wishes to take up the motion. After debate has begun or, if there is no debate, after any member has voted, the lack of a second has become immaterial and it is too late to make a point of order that the motion has not been seconded. If a motion is considered and adopted without having been seconded—even in a case where there was no reason for the chair to overlook this requirement—the absence of a second does not affect the validity of the motion's adoption."<br></div><br></div><div>-Alicia<br><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Mar 9, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Daniel Hayes <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:danielehayes@icloud.com" target="_blank">danielehayes@icloud.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">Seconds are not required information in minutes as per RONR believe it or not. However while I don’t think they do I am not familiar if our rules dictate that we must.<div>"The name of the maker of a main motion should be entered in the minutes, but the name of the seconder <strong>should not</strong> be entered unless ordered by the assembly.(RONR 11th ed. p.470.ll.26-28.)</div><div>Borrowing a line from PRP Josh Martin, "There is no statement in <em>RONR </em>which suggests that the fact that
a motion was seconded should be included in the minutes. It is not one
of the items listed on pgs. 468-471, and it does not appear at all in
the sample minutes on pgs. 472-473, even though the main motion by Mr.
Gordon, the amendment by Mrs. Thomas, and the motion to commit by Mr.
Dorsey were all probably seconded.”</div><div><br></div><div><div><div>Daniel Hayes</div><div>LNC Region 7 Representative Alternate</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div><div>On Mar 9, 2015, at 5:26 PM, <a href="mailto:goldsteinatlarge@gmail.com" target="_blank">goldsteinatlarge@gmail.com</a> wrote:</div><br></div></div><div><div><div><div dir="ltr" style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-family:Calibri,'Segoe UI',Meiryo,'Microsoft YaHei UI','Microsoft JhengHei UI','Malgun Gothic',sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><div>Alicia, <span> </span></div><div><br></div><div>Is the motion’s second missing or not needed in the minutes?</div><div><br></div><div><div><br></div><div>Sent from Windows Mail</div><div><br></div></div><div style="padding-top:5px;border-top-color:rgb(229,229,229);border-top-width:1px;border-top-style:solid"><div><font style="line-height:15pt;letter-spacing:0.02em;font-family:Calibri,'Segoe UI',Meiryo,'Microsoft YaHei UI','Microsoft JhengHei UI','Malgun Gothic',sans-serif;font-size:12pt" face=" 'Calibri', 'Segoe UI', 'Meiryo', 'Microsoft YaHei UI', 'Microsoft JhengHei UI', 'Malgun Gothic', 'sans-serif'"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:agmattson@gmail.com" target="_blank">Alicia Mattson</a><br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, March 9, 2015 6:17 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:lnc-business@lp.org" target="_blank">lnc-business</a></font></div></div><div><br></div><div dir=""><div dir="ltr"><div><div>Attached are the draft minutes from Saturday's EC meeting regarding ballot access in Arkansas.<br><br>Absent objection from an EC member who attended, these minutes will auto-approve on 3/23/15.<br><br></div>Alicia Mattson<br></div>LNC Secretary<br><br></div></div></div></div></div><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important">Lnc-business mailing list</span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important"><a href="mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org" target="_blank">Lnc-business@hq.lp.org</a></span><br style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline!important"><a href="http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org" target="_blank">http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org</a></span></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Lnc-business mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org" target="_blank">Lnc-business@hq.lp.org</a><br>
<a href="http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org" target="_blank">http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Lnc-business mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org" target="_blank">Lnc-business@hq.lp.org</a><br>
<a href="http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org" target="_blank">http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div>
</div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Lnc-business mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org">Lnc-business@hq.lp.org</a><br>
<a href="http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org" target="_blank">http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>