<div dir="ltr">The LNC voted on two motions - to reduce the budget line and "plan for" 4 issues, which failed, and to adopt the budget, which passed. What we're being asked to do is either to recognize, as part of a decision, things said in debate, or to recognize a failed motion as a decision to do something else. In my opinion, both of these violate basic principles of parliamentary procedure: that the chair states the motion before it is voted on, that the minutes reflect the exact language of the motion, and that assemblies, including boards, make decisions via motions. I also don't think these are technicalities - I think they are there for a reason, and setting them aside would make decision making far more difficult than it needs to be. Members would need to think through every possible consequence of a vote, in terms of what has been said in debate. That's why every manual embraces these principles, in one form or another. Speaking of verbose debate serving hidden agendas - the point of these rules is to have a clear object for discussion and to avoid precisely that (the most on-point rule on that matter, though, is the prohibition against debate without a motion). Finally, tossing aside these principles would require us to not only make decisions, not to then figure out what those decisions mean, a process akin to reading tea leaves and often requiring resort to interpretations of videotape. The General was wiser than that, in my view.<div><br></div><div>That being said, I do, in fact, object to the speculation on (my) motives here. I can't do much about it, but I can at least say I object. I object to disagreement being labeled "suspicious" as has happened far too many times this term. I object to the implication, intended or not, that disagreement implies I am being dishonest, that my opinion amounts to manipulation, and now, that this very request for polite disagreement amounts to an effort to muzzle. While I readily admit that there is no such rule for email, there most certainly is such a rule for meetings, discussed in the section on decorum, and it, too, is there for a reason. If we insist, though, that speculation on motives is appropriate, then the only motive I can think of for making a bald assertion which fails to address the arguments already made, followed by a suggestion that disagreement with said assertion is manipulative and dishonest, would be to silence others. Since I assume we do not wish to silence each other with such forms of argument, I ask that such things not be done.</div><div><br></div><div>Thoughts?</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Joshua A. Katz<div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 7:04 AM, David Demarest <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dpdemarest@centurylink.net" target="_blank">dpdemarest@centurylink.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="m_3650579078393044014WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The discussion was contentious but the decision was clear. It is a matter of record that the LNC voted for 6 issues. The results of that vote should be changed only by another vote of the LNC.<br><br>That being said, I think it is appropriate for Wes to request a one-time waiver of a specified number of issues (hopefully just one) to resolve a temporary staffing issue due to a specific need. If the staffing issue is not temporary, a motion should be considered by the LNC that takes staff recommendations into account.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I do object to any possible manipulative attempt by LNC members to contravene an official LNC vote by acclamation. If staff is overburdened, we should proactively address the issue, not use manipulation to increase the LNC burden with an attempted acclamation rehash of something we have already voted on.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Yes, my contention above violates any possible understood ‘rule’ about not discussing motivations. Any such rule would really amount to an attempt to muzzle discussion of hidden agendas and reasoning behind those agendas. It is my opinion that much of our verbose debate is the result of hidden agendas. For better or worse, I pledge to always try to be upfront about my motivations and supporting logic. Further, I would support any general initiative to minimize endless circular arguments that just beat around the bush instead of getting straight to the point by presenting an open, assertive and <b><u>transparent</u></b> representation of our personal views, motivations, intent and supporting logic. Assertive transparency, the polar opposite of manipulation, just might be the key to achieving the otherwise seemingly unreachable goal of LNC and Libertarian institution consensus and enhance the role of our institutions to inspire empowered individual Libertarians.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Thoughts?<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:20.0pt;font-family:"Script MT Bold"">~David<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">2018 Omaha Roads to Liberty Un-Convention<u></u><u></u></span></i></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">~David Pratt Demarest<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">LSLA Vice-Chair<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Secretary, LPNE State Central Committee<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Cell: <a href="tel:(402)%20981-6469" value="+14029816469" target="_blank">402-981-6469</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Home: <a href="tel:(402)%20493-0873" value="+14024930873" target="_blank">402-493-0873</a><u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> Lnc-business [mailto:<a href="mailto:lnc-business-bounces@hq.lp.org" target="_blank">lnc-business-bounces@<wbr>hq.lp.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Daniel Hayes<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 20, 2017 6:48 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:lnc-business@hq.lp.org" target="_blank">lnc-business@hq.lp.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lnc-business] would like to cut 1 issue of LP News<u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">Bittner did it!!! HE took the issue!!<u></u><u></u></p></div><div id="m_3650579078393044014AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div id="m_3650579078393044014AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal">#NeverBittner!!!<u></u><u></u></p></div><div id="m_3650579078393044014AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div id="m_3650579078393044014AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal">Daniel Hayes<u></u><u></u></p></div><div id="m_3650579078393044014AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal">LNC At Large Member<br><br>Sent from my iPhone<u></u><u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>On Jun 20, 2017, at 6:30 AM, Brett Bittner <<a href="mailto:brett.bittner@lp.org" target="_blank">brett.bittner@lp.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I take no issue to only having 5 issues of LP News in 2017.<u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Brett <u></u><u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">**This message sent from my phone. Please excuse any typos.<u></u><u></u></p></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Jun 20, 2017 01:57, "Alicia Mattson" <<a href="mailto:agmattson@gmail.com" target="_blank">agmattson@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I have no objection to only doing 5 issues.<u></u><u></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="color:#888888">-Alicia</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 12:21 PM, Wes Benedict <<a href="mailto:wes.benedict@lp.org" target="_blank">wes.benedict@lp.org</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><p class="MsoNormal">The LNC discussed and passed a budget planning for 6 issues of LP News in 2017.<br><br>I wanted to see if there was opposition to cutting the number from 6 to 5. I have discussed this with the chair and he was okay with me floating the proposal to the LNC.<br><br>My primary reason for wanting to cut one issue is simply to reduce the burden on staff and allow us to focus on some other things right now.<br><br>The number of issues produced each year has varied, and you can see how many easily by seeing the archives list here: <a href="https://www.lp.org/lpnews-archive/" target="_blank">https://www.lp.org/lpnews-<wbr>archive/</a><br><br>While some people have wanted us to produce more issues, and others have suggested we eliminate LP News, my personal preference is that we do continue to produce between 4 and 6 issues each year. There are still a lot of members who don't pay attention to email or visit or website.<br><br>Carla Howell has been serving as editor of LP News. Her last day is June 30. She has generated 3 issues of LP News this year (February, April, and June issues).<br><br>Eric Dixon has returned to staff. I plan to have him serve as the editor of LP News. He has served as editor in the past.<br><br>Rather than generate August, October, and December issues, I'd prefer to generate September and December issues.<br><br>However, again, the LNC, passed a budget for 6, and if you want me to generate 6 issues, I'll do that, which will mean getting Eric to work on an August issue right away.<br><br>Please speak up if you are opposed to me cutting one issue of LP News. I'll review any opposition and discuss with the chair before making a final decision on this.<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>-- <br>Wes Benedict, Executive Director<br>Libertarian National Committee, Inc.<br>1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314<br><a href="tel:%28202%29%20333-0008%20ext.%20232" target="_blank">(202) 333-0008 ext. 232</a>, <a href="mailto:wes.benedict@lp.org" target="_blank">wes.benedict@lp.org</a><br><a href="http://facebook.com/libertarians" target="_blank">facebook.com/libertarians</a> @LPNational<br>Join the Libertarian Party at: <a href="http://lp.org/membership" target="_blank">http://lp.org/membership</a><br><br><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>Lnc-business mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org" target="_blank">Lnc-business@hq.lp.org</a><br><a href="http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org" target="_blank">http://hq.lp.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.<wbr>org</a><u></u><u></u></p></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>Lnc-business mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org" target="_blank">Lnc-business@hq.lp.org</a><br><a href="http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org" target="_blank">http://hq.lp.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.<wbr>org</a><u></u><u></u></p></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal">______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>Lnc-business mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org" target="_blank">Lnc-business@hq.lp.org</a><br><a href="http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org" target="_blank">http://hq.lp.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.<wbr>org</a><u></u><u></u></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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