<div dir="auto">Wes, regardless of whether Invictus and his poorly chosen colleagues were bullied, physical threats are not to be tolerated. Note that I am not threatening that misguided cartel with physical violence. What I am saying as one individual is that if they will not listen to reason and will not cease and desist their immoral behavior, I will identify their behavior for what it is and refuse to deal with them economically and socially. <div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">That is how Rosa Parks and her friends dealt rather effectively with bullying. She sat an example of peaceful civil disobedience that eventually succeeded through voluntary economic boycott ostracism.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Thoughts?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">~David Pratt Demarest</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Oct 27, 2017 1:54 PM, "David Demarest" <<a href="mailto:dprattdemarest@gmail.com">dprattdemarest@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">😀 - and the world is a far better place because you are not silent!</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Oct 27, 2017 1:46 PM, "Caryn Ann Harlos" <<a href="mailto:carynannharlos@gmail.com" target="_blank">carynannharlos@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="m_-4304118732339826812quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>Absolutely not. </div><div><br></div><div>Strong opposition is not bullying.</div><div><br></div><div>And is not relevant here. AI could have been the most persecuted person the world and this situation would still be a problem.</div><div><br></div><div>I'm not particularly interested in what about thus, what about this, what about this.</div><div><br></div><div>Libertarians are often so loathe to judge anything that we become complicit in harms done to people in weaker positions.</div><div><br></div><div>We must stop that if we are going to model a free world in which the many are not lambs to the slaughter.</div><div><br></div><div>I find it interesting that the discussions keeps turning to me. It's not relevant. And only serves to have others who say "well crap I don't want to deal with that" silent. My many faults don't include being silent.</div><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>-Caryn Ann </div></font><div class="m_-4304118732339826812elided-text"><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div>On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:38 PM Wes Benedict <<a href="mailto:wes.benedict@lp.org" target="_blank">wes.benedict@lp.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>Caryn Ann,</p>
<p>I've often felt that Augustus Invictus was bullied by
libertarians. Do you think he was bullied?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<pre class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377moz-signature" cols="72">Wes Benedict, Executive Director
Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314
<a href="tel:(202)%20333-0008" value="+12023330008" target="_blank">(202) 333-0008 ext. 232</a>, <a class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wes.benedict@lp.org" target="_blank">wes.benedict@lp.org</a>
<a href="http://facebook.com/libertarians" target="_blank">facebook.com/libertarians</a> @LPNational
Join the Libertarian Party at: <a class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lp.org/membership" target="_blank">http://lp.org/membership</a></pre></div><div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<div class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377moz-cite-prefix">On 10/27/2017 2:31 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>Prediction: those who speak out here will be targeted.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Keeps others from speaking out.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Caryn Ann </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:24 PM David Demarest <<a href="mailto:dprattdemarest@gmail.com" target="_blank">dprattdemarest@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>I agree that there are limits to what the LNC can do in
this matter. What the LNC can do is inspire and empower
individual Libertarians to be fully informed with a full
set of principles and accurate facts so they individually
use voluntary economic and social ostracism in an
appropriate, just and effective manner to deal with
thinly-disguised authoritarian threats exemplified by the
nonsense in Florida.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Physical threats are a serious matter that cuts to
the core of what Libertarianism stands for. Political
correctness and ridicule of those who take a stand
against bigotry is not a principled answer.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regardless, threats or no threats, memes or no
memes, I will speak out at every opportunity against
mindless bigotry that goes hand-in-hand with
authoritarianism and nationalism, as I am doing now.
We all have a choice on how we deal with
ethno-nationalism. I hope for the sake of the LP and
the Libertarian movement that we individual
Libertarians choose wisely.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thoughts?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>~David Pratt Demarest</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Oct 27, 2017 12:52 PM, "Caryn
Ann Harlos" <<a href="mailto:carynannharlos@gmail.com" target="_blank">carynannharlos@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>Larry I don't disagree with you. That has been
my position. And unless we want to disaffiliate
it's like pulling a gun. Don't do that unless you
intend to shoot.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I just wanted to be clear that I've been reading
material, also comparing it with my past
experiences, and then that "response" by Ramsey and
I'm not buying that there isn't a problem. What
gets done must be spearheaded by Florida
Libertarians. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm not fooled IOW. And honestly I came to the
realization of how toxic this may be, particularly
to women in the Party, who would leave silently. I
asked myself if I would stick around that. The
answer is not an unequivocal yes.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I stand by my comments that there is a bullying
and threatening issue with the far left as well.
There was a threat to bring ANTIFA to our
convention. There is condemnation of the idea of
property ownership and we don't have to look too far
into history to see where that leads. And violence
has been discussed. I see it too. And believe we
have a shameful reluctance to call that what it is.
It's not a matter of equivalency or comparing
thresholds of damage. It's about defending
libertarian ideas.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The fact is that these two sides feed on each
other. The existence of one gives the other
propaganda. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We must continue to keep on the northward
libertarian route.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But make no mistake- there IS an
ethno-nationalist issue in Florida. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Read Ramsey's response. If you do not see
manipulative gas lighting then you lack discernment.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If all we can do is personally say to those
complaining- yes I see what you are saying. You are
not imagining things- that is valuable.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We are a limited power body. We can resist the
urge to think we can or should intervene in
everything. But that does not mean not seeing the
thing. I see it. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Caryn Ann</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:32 AM Daniel Hayes
<<a href="mailto:danielehayes@icloud.com" target="_blank">danielehayes@icloud.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>Sagely spoken once again my friend.</div>
<div id="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827AppleMailSignature">Daniel<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone</div>
</div>
<div>
<div><br>
On Oct 27, 2017, at 12:28 PM, Larry Sharpe
<<a href="mailto:lsharpe@neo-sage.com" target="_blank">lsharpe@neo-sage.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div>My two cents,
<div><br>
<div>Ed and Steven both say leave it
alone. So, leave it alone.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>They may be wrong, but the odds
of them being wrong are far lower
than the odds of our meddling making
things worse.</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Oct 27, 2017
12:22, "David Demarest" <<a href="mailto:dprattdemarest@gmail.com" target="_blank">dprattdemarest@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>I agree with Caryn Ann, there
sure is a lot of smoke in Florida.
It is time to stop pooh-poohing
this thinly-disguised bigotry,
ethno-nationalism and power-grab
threat to both Florida and
national Libertarianism; stop
sweeping it under the rug and take
a serious look at the matter.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Disagreements on the
application of the NAP, while a
serious matter, are
understandable. Disagreements on
mindless bigotry and
ethno-nationalism, however, will
be a malignant cancer on the LP
and Libertarian movement if not
addressed promptly and
assertively.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I reiterate, not tolerating
intolerance is NOT bigotry.
Tolerance in defense of
intolerance is a VICE. This
should be a no-brainer to all
Libertarians. Bigots and
ethno-nationalist power-grabbers
must not be part of our target
market. They will only use us to
achieve their nefarious goals
that will undermine our
credibility. Like Wes and Nick,
I ask pseudo-Libertarians who
think otherwise to promptly take
their political business
elsewhere.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We can follow the lead of
Nick and Wes and use the tool of
voluntary individual economic
and social ostracism to bring
this insidious threat to a
screeching halt. Disaffiliation,
while a last resort, can be an
effective institutional tool of
economic and social ostracism,
fully consistent with even a
strict interpretation of the
NAP, to effectively deal with
this potentially lethal threat
to Libertarianism.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It is time to clean this
mindless evil out of the LP and
Libertarian movement before it
gets out of control, impacts our
political agenda and undermines
our heroic goal of freedom,
nothing more, nothing less.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thoughts?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>~David Pratt Demarest</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Oct
27, 2017 9:29 AM, "Caryn Ann
Harlos" <<a href="mailto:carynannharlos@gmail.com" target="_blank">carynannharlos@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I just read a "response"
by Ryan Ramsey and it has
all the marks of an
aggressive gas lighting
campaign. After I read that
letter, my "knower" knew
that there are too many
testimonies that ring true.
There is a very manipulative
game going on.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>There is definitely
something very toxic going
on in Florida. I am going
to be speaking to my Region
1 Chairs about this as I
make my quarterly
conferences with them. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Caryn Ann</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>On Thu, Oct 26, 2017
at 6:52 AM Starchild
<<a href="mailto:sfdreamer@earthlink.net" target="_blank">sfdreamer@earthlink.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827m_-7430972401358494010m_-8631976702655004429m_-7235771314403655498Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>If
there is clear
evidence of (1) a
current Florida LP
state-level official
making clearly
racist statements,
or clear and
credible threats of
violence, and (2)
the Florida LP
leadership being
aware of this and
taking no action
whatsoever to
condemn it or
distance the Florida
LP from it, I think
perhaps a letter of
concern from the LNC
would be in order.
If the Florida LP
leadership offered
no reasonable
response to such a
letter and continued
to not take any
remedial action,
especially if it
became clear that
this was part of a
pattern of ignoring
racism or serious
Non-Aggression
Principle violations
from state leaders,
then I would be
ready to entertain a
motion to
disaffiliate. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827m_-7430972401358494010m_-8631976702655004429m_-7235771314403655498Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>But
– and I confess I
have not read all
the links and
background on this –
I'm not sure even
the first condition
stated above has
been met. My
personal belief is
that Ryan Ramsey
likely does hold
bigoted white
supremacist type
views, but while the
the evidence for
this may be
cumulatively
compelling (walks
like a duck, quacks
like a duck, etc.),
it also seems to be
largely
circumstantial. I
looked at the
American Guard
website for
instance, and didn't
find a "smoking gun"
of explicitly racist
material. Now I do
think Ramsey's
comments about LP
chair Nick Sarwark
are reprehensible
and without merit. A
sample (more at <a href="http://archive.is/EMZPY#selection-233.0-233.110" target="_blank">http://archive.is/EMZPY#sel<wbr>ection-233.0-233.110</a>):</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><i>"</i><span class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827m_-7430972401358494010m_-8631976702655004429m_-7235771314403655498Apple-style-span" style="font-style:italic;line-height:19px">Nick Sarwark, National
Chairman of the
Libertarian Party,
is the poster boy
for the Cultural
Marxist idiocy
that keeps us
relegated to
single digit
election
returns... </span><span class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827m_-7430972401358494010m_-8631976702655004429m_-7235771314403655498Apple-style-span" style="line-height:19px"><i>Any question as to whether Mr. Sarwark was a
lover of
liberty, or a
Cultural Marxist
attempting to
hold back the
advance of the
Libertarian
Party, were
answered when he
made national
news repeating
lies about Milo
Yiannopoulos,
subject of the
violence in
Berkley, when he
insinuated
bloodshed to
stop free speech
was
'understandable'... </i></span><i>For
those who did not
attend the
National
Convention last
spring in Orlando,
let me tell you
how Nick Sarwark
was re-elected as
LP Chairman. He
collected a group
of loyalists
around himself to
feign running as
opposition. Then
at the last
minute, on the
Convention floor,
they dropped their
candidacy and
threw their
support to the man
trying to do the
Weimar Republic
over, as if the
Communists will
win this time.
This is why many
are starting to
refer to him as
'Nazi Nick',
despite his Jewish
religion. His
ignorance of
history is
astounding,
especially
considering his
heritage. It is an
ignorance common
among the products
of compulsory
government
education camps,
but unacceptable
for anyone wishing
to lead the third
largest political
party in the
greatest nation on
the planet. The
smug manner in
which the leftist
infection tries to
paint President
Trump as Hitler is
the crowning jewel
of their
ignorance. It is
time for a quick
history lesson on
Germany prior to
World War Two.
Trump is not
Hitler, but people
like Sarwark are
ushering the next
Hitler
in... Behold Nick
Sarwark, who
claims to lead the
party of
individual
freedom, as he
ushers his own
Jewish people
toward the
boxcars. Nazi
Nick, the ultimate
in self hatred."</i></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827m_-7430972401358494010m_-8631976702655004429m_-7235771314403655498Apple-style-span" style="line-height:19px"><span class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827m_-7430972401358494010m_-8631976702655004429m_-7235771314403655498Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></span><span class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827m_-7430972401358494010m_-8631976702655004429m_-7235771314403655498Apple-style-span" style="line-height:19px">Even if the rumor about Milo Yiannopoulis
planning to "out"
undocumented
students during
his speech at UC
Berkeley, which
Yiannopoulis
ultimately did not
do and denied
intending to do,
was false – I'm
not sure it was; I
wouldn't be
surprised if
Yiannopoulis, via
associates, was
the source of the
rumor, even if he
never intended to
carry out any such
action – the point
is that if student
protesters heard
the rumor and
sincerely believed
it, there's an
argument to be
made that their
use of violence to
stop him from
speaking arguably
was, to the best
of their knowledge
at the time, a
legitimate
defensive measure
designed to
prevent people
being forcibly
kidnapped and
deported by the
State. I'm not
sure Nick intended
to go that far;
the word
"understandable"
as he used it is
somewhat ambiguous
and does not
necessarily imply
approval. </span></div>
<div><span class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827m_-7430972401358494010m_-8631976702655004429m_-7235771314403655498Apple-style-span" style="line-height:19px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827m_-7430972401358494010m_-8631976702655004429m_-7235771314403655498Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Regardless,
any LP member whose
views are so badly
skewed as to publish
a written public
article condemning
as solidly
libertarian a party
leader as the
current LP national
chair as a "cultural
Marxist" and among
those who is
"usher(ing) his own
Jewish people toward
the boxcars", is not
somebody I
personally want
serving in the party
leadership. Coupled
with the threats
that Paul Stanton
and Paul Frankel
report Ramsey making
against them and
against members of
Stanton's family,
and
Ramsey's connections
to groups like Rock
Against Communism
and the American
Guard, if I
sat on the Florida
LP Executive
Committee and had
been voting, I
believe I would have
voted to remove
Ramsey from that
body if such action
is consistent with
the Florida LP's
bylaws. But I don't
know whether there
was a bylaws issue,
or why the ExCom
majority voted down
Paul Stanton's
motion for removal.
My suspicion that
they may have made
what I believe to be
a bad decision isn't
enough for me to
support the LNC
formally weighing in
or taking action
vis-a-vis the
Florida LP, short of
the conditions I
describe in the
first paragraph
above being met.
Short of removal, I
don't know what
other steps, if any,
they have taken, or
may yet take. </div>
<div><span class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827m_-7430972401358494010m_-8631976702655004429m_-7235771314403655498Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></div>
<div><span class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827m_-7430972401358494010m_-8631976702655004429m_-7235771314403655498Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>But
if the LNC does not
make any direct
formal response to
the Florida
situation, this
still leaves the
question of what
else we can do with
regard to the
broader issue of
ethno-nationalism
seeping into the
Libertarian
Party. It's been
pointed out that the
LNC has recently
issued a strong
statement against
racism and bigotry;
the value of issuing
another such
statement at this
time seems dubious.
However while we've
recently addressed
the "ethno" aspect
of the
ethno-nationalist
problem, I don't
think we've
adequately addressed
nationalism, which
is much more
pervasive.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827m_-7430972401358494010m_-8631976702655004429m_-7235771314403655498Apple-tab-span" style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span>Nationalism
is itself, I
believe, a form of
bigotry akin to
racism. It is an
anti-individualist
philosophy which,
translated into
government policy,
results in virtually
every national
government in the
world wrongfully
discriminating
against people on
the basis of innate
characteristics
beyond their control
(where they were
born or who their
parents were). It
also tends to lead
people to take
un-libertarian
positions, such as
being willing to
initiate force
against immigrants,
supporting
protectionism, and
accepting various
rights violations in
the name of
"national security".
Nationalism can also
serve as a cover for
racism, because
nationalist and
racist views often
dovetail when it
comes to issues like
immigration, racial
profiling in the
name of "national
security", the U.S.
government killing
people in other
countries, etc. But
despite being as
repugnant as racism,
nationalism has so
far largely gotten a
pass from society
including from many
(L)ibertarians. If
we are serious about
discouraging the
sort of views that
are disrupting the
Florida LP, the LNC
issuing a strong
statement against
nationalism seems
like a very good
idea, and I would
support such a
resolution. I think
we should also pay
more attention to
how our messaging
and other practices
(e.g. use of the
American flag) can
subtly legitimize
and reinforce
nationalism in the
party.</div>
</div>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Love &
Liberty,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
(((
starchild )))</div>
<div>At-Large
Representative,
Libertarian National
Committee</div>
</div>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>
<a href="mailto:RealReform@earthlink.net" target="_blank">RealReform@earthlink.net</a></div>
<div>
(415)
625-FREE</div>
<div>
@StarchildSF</div>
</div>
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><br>
<div><br>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>On Oct 25,
2017, at 6:14
PM, Caryn Ann
Harlos wrote:</div>
<br class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827m_-7430972401358494010m_-8631976702655004429m_-7235771314403655498Apple-interchange-newline">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>I agree
with Ken. And
the RR from
that area gave
their input.
I can tell you
no Region 1
state would
welcome this
interference.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So
pre-empttively
since we seem
so eager to
get involved
in affiliates
- this RR says
don't mess
with Region 1
states. They
handle their
own business.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm
hoping Oregon
gets on mended
terms with
National.
This isn't the
way to show
states we
learned our
lesson from
that mess.
Their Board
voted and
unless we
think the
whole of that
leadership are
secret nazis
then we have
no right or
authority to
be
second-guessing
their decision
for their
state.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I
routinely get
complaints
about such and
such going on
here and
there. I
listen, tell
them their
rights, and
say it is for
their state to
handle. Wes
brilliant
release said
what we needed
to. I wish we
would say the
same to the
violent left.
Violence
against
persons and
property is
unacceptable.
Bigotry and
identity
collectivism
of all kinds
is
unacceptable. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Caryn
Ann</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Wed, Oct 25,
2017 at 8:04
PM, Ken
Moellman <span><<a href="mailto:ken@moellman.com" target="_blank">ken@moellman.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>A
disaffiliation
motion is way
too extreme.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I think
the statement
made by either
Wes or Nick -
I forget who
made it -
about racism
and whatnot
being not
welcome in the
party was
enough from LP
National.
Disaffiliation
would take a
serious
infraction,
IMO. That a
party has
internal
issues is
nothing new
and nothing to
get involved
with.</div>
</div>
<div class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827m_-7430972401358494010m_-8631976702655004429m_-7235771314403655498HOEnZb">
<div class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827m_-7430972401358494010m_-8631976702655004429m_-7235771314403655498h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On
Wed, Oct 25,
2017 at 9:19
PM, David
Demarest <span><<a href="mailto:dpdemarest@centurylink.net" target="_blank">dpdemarest@centurylink.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin-top:0px;margin-right:0px;margin-bottom:0px;margin-left:0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US">
<div class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827m_-7430972401358494010m_-8631976702655004429m_-7235771314403655498m_514318883016273481m_-5220239326593888638WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">I
agree that a
disaffiliation
investigation
motion would
open a can of
worms. Perhaps
the existing
motion calling
for a
resolution is
the wiser
choice.
However, it is
a catch-22.
How can we
justify the
resolution if
we do not do
the necessary
due diligence
investigation?</p>
<span>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thoughts?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:20.0pt;font-family:"Script MT Bold"">~David
Pratt</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="color:#1f497d">May 25-27 2018 Omaha Roads to Freedom
Un-Convention</span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="color:#1f497d"> </span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="color:#1f497d">Freedom, Nothing More, Nothing Less</span></i></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:#1f497d"> </span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">~David
Pratt Demarest</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Roads
to Freedom
Foundation,
Founder</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">LNC
Region 6
Representative
(IA, IL, MN,
MO, ND, NE,
WI)</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">LSLA
Vice-Chair</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">LPNE
State Central
Committee,
Secretary</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">LPRC
Board Member,
Nebraska State
Coordinator</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:David.Demarest@LP.org" target="_blank">David.Demarest@LP.org</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:Secretary@LPNE.org" target="_blank">Secretary@LPNE.org</a>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:DPDemarest@centurylink.net" target="_blank">DPDemarest@centurylink.net</a>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:DPrattDemarest@gmail.com" target="_blank">DPrattDemarest@gmail.com</a>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cell:
<a href="tel:%28402%29%20981-6469" value="+14029816469" target="_blank">402-981-6469</a>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Home:
<a href="tel:%28402%29%20493-0873" value="+14024930873" target="_blank">402-493-0873</a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b>
Lnc-business
[mailto:<a href="mailto:lnc-business-bounces@hq.lp.org" target="_blank">lnc-business-bounces@h<wbr>q.lp.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf
Of </b>Joshua
Katz<br>
<b>Sent:</b>
Wednesday,
October 25,
2017 1:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:lnc-business@hq.lp.org" target="_blank">lnc-business@hq.lp.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b>
[Lnc-business]
Fwd:
[Lnc-votes]
Resignation
From LPF</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div>
<div class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827m_-7430972401358494010m_-8631976702655004429m_-7235771314403655498m_514318883016273481h5">
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank
you to both
Steven, Paul
Frankel, and
Tom Knapp for
inserting
much-needed
facts into
this
discussion.
In light of
these facts, I
think
vigilance is
called for,
but do not
think it is
appropriate,
at this time,
to make a
relevant
motion.</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I
will note,
without
getting into
the weeds,
that while I
won't quibble
with facts
alleged about
Florida, I
would disagree
with some of
the statements
made about
certain
national
groups, or in
other ways
about the
dangerous
movement we
face. I think
they are more
dangerous than
they've been
described
here, and
while in the
past I
considered
them
individually
dangerous, I
now consider
them to be an
organizational
threat - and a
threat to the
modern world
which made
freedom
possible.
(Murray
Rothbard
pointed out,
in 1965, that
freedom was
made possible
by the
overthrow of
the Ancien
Regime, and I
think the
pre-modern
thinking on
the right, and
the
post-modern
thinking on
the left, are
both creating
an environment
where it can
return.) I
consider them,
at the moment,
the most
immediate
threat to
freedom in our
culture, since
they have
organized and
gone beyond
being
individual
cranks - they
now are making
moves on the
world of
ideas, which
controls the
rest. And
remember that
far too many
people
associate us
with them.
The
Charlottesville
morons (if it
brings them
any comfort, I
think I speak
on behalf of
all Jews when
I say that
none of us
desire to be
mouth-breathing
bigots
carrying tiki
torches, so
their fears
about us
replacing them
are misplaced)
used a banner
which was
based on the
Albany Plan of
Union banner -
and one of the
snake pieces
was labeled
L. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827m_-7430972401358494010m_-8631976702655004429m_-7235771314403655498m_514318883016273481h5">
<p class="MsoNormal">In
any event, as
concerns
Florida, I
think the
analysis is
pretty
straightforward,
although the
determinations
are not. Is
there a
problem? I am
convinced
there is, and
I am convinced
we should not
ignore it and
blind
ourselves to
it. Another
party tried
that approach,
as well as
"well, we'll
bring them
along for
their votes on
the things we
agree about,"
and now is
largely unable
to get
candidates who
actually favor
its basic
ideas through
primaries.
The next
question, the
crucial
question, is -
can the
affiliate fix
it? (A
related, but
somewhat
different
question, is
whether it
wants to.) I
think the
answer to that
is yes. There
is, of course,
a tipping
point - a
point where
rather than
try to fix the
problem, good
people simply
leave, and the
ability to fix
the problem
goes away.
And good
people are, it
seems clear to
me, leaving.
I still do not
think the
tipping point
has been
reached,
though. </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827m_-7430972401358494010m_-8631976702655004429m_-7235771314403655498m_514318883016273481h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all">
</p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Joshua
A. Katz</p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">At-Large Representative,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">Libertarian National Committee</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="m_-4304118732339826812m_3537961534766023648m_-6948767930236740377m_5991031207925912579m_9191089569067692325m_-1580620553636076827m_-7430972401358494010m_-8631976702655004429m_-7235771314403655498m_514318883016273481h5">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: <<a href="mailto:travellingcircus@gmail.com" target="_blank">travellingcircus@gmail.com</a>><br>
Date: Tue, Oct
24, 2017 at
12:21 PM<br>
Subject: Re:
[Lnc-votes]
[Lnc-business]
Resignation
From LPF<br>
To: "<a href="mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org" target="_blank">Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org" target="_blank">caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org</a>>,
Independent
Political
Report <<a href="mailto:independent-political-report@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">independent-political-report@<wbr>googlegroups.com</a>>,
"<a href="mailto:iprtwo@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">iprtwo@googlegroups.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:iprtwo@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">iprtwo@googlegroups.com</a>>,
<a href="mailto:erin.adams@lp.org" target="_blank">erin.adams@lp.org</a>, Whitney
Bilyeu <<a href="mailto:whitneycb76@gmail.com" target="_blank">whitneycb76@gmail.com</a>>,
Joshua Katz
<<a href="mailto:joshua.katz@lp.org" target="_blank">joshua.katz@lp.org</a>>, David
Demarest <<a href="mailto:David.Demarest@lp.org" target="_blank">David.Demarest@lp.org</a>>,
Daniel Hayes
<<a href="mailto:daniel.hayes@lp.org" target="_blank">daniel.hayes@lp.org</a>>, Ed
Marsh <<a href="mailto:ednmax@yahoo.com" target="_blank">ednmax@yahoo.com</a>>, Steven
Nekhaila <<a href="mailto:Steven.Nekhaila@gmail.com" target="_blank">Steven.Nekhaila@gmail.com</a>>,
Starchild <<a href="mailto:sfdreamer@earthlink.net" target="_blank">sfdreamer@earthlink.net</a>>,
Paul Stanton
<<a href="mailto:paul@stanton.name" target="_blank">paul@stanton.name</a>><br>
</p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div class="m_-4304118732339826812elided-text"><div dir="ltr">-- <br></div><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><font size="4" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#666666"><b>In Liberty,</b></font></div><div><font size="4" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#666666"><b>Caryn Ann Harlos</b></font></div><div><font size="1">Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee </font><span style="font-size:x-small">(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - <a href="mailto:Caryn.Ann.Harlos@LP.org" target="_blank">Caryn.Ann. Harlos@LP.org</a></span></div><div><span style="font-size:x-small">Communications Director, <a href="http://www.lpcolorado.org" target="_blank">Libertarian Party of Colorado</a></span></div><div><span style="font-size:x-small">Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee</span><br></div><div><span style="font-size:x-small"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:x-small">A haiku to the Statement of Principles:</span></div><div><span style="font-size:x-small"><i>We defend your rights</i></span></div><div><span style="font-size:x-small"><i>And oppose the use of force</i></span></div><div><span style="font-size:x-small"><i>Taxation is theft</i></span></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-size:x-small"><br></span></div><div style="font-size:12.8px"><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
</blockquote></div></div>