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<p>Hi Caryn Ann, <br /><br />I agree that this is a topic that might do better in a medium other than email. As for "cause", I wasn't aware that it was needed for the actual motion, as I looked back at previous motions to see how they were worded. <br /><br />As I'm not familiar with the LNC meetings protocol, I'll listen for suggestions on that method. </p>
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<div class="pre" style="margin: 0; padding: 0; font-family: monospace">Elizabeth Van Horn<br /> LNC Region 3 (IN, MI, OH, KY)<br /> Secretary Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana<br /> Chair-LP Social Media Process Review Committee<br /> Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus<br /> <a href="http://www.lpcaucus.org/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.lpcaucus.org/</a></div>
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<p>On 2018-01-14 17:48, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:</p>
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<div dir="ltr">Elizabeth on reflection I think there are some flaws here. I was getting ready to email my state chairs about whether or not to co-sponsor at a minimum but there is not enough information. That section of the Bylaws is "for cause." I know what my reasons are but they are not everyone's, and I would not put my name to something that might affirm something I do not (such supporting the current state of consent laws or fixing the LNC on a position within that contentious subject on which Libertarians disagree). My concerns are behaviour and judgment.
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<div>I also think this too weighty for an email.</div>
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<div>IMHO a meeting should be called. And the motion IMHO is defective without the cause.</div>
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<div>-Caryn Ann</div>
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<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 12:19 PM, <span><<a href="mailto:trent.somes@lp.org">trent.somes@lp.org</a>></span> wrote:<br />
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<div class="h5">On 2018-01-14 14:04, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">I find it very sad that a colleague has brought us to this place with<br /> his repeated utter lack of judgment.<br /> <br /> I do not have my requisite Region 1 support at this time - Region 1 in<br /> the past had no use for National and I worked my ass to change that.<br /> Thanks to the incredibly destructive acts of our VC that work is<br /> crumbling.<br /> <br /> If it were solely up to me I would co-sponsor and vote yes. But I am<br /> a representative.<br /> <br /> God help me, if I were ever this utterly destructive to an<br /> organization that I would realize this isn't about me and my<br /> edgelordiness and step down.<br /> <br /> Despite the opinion of others or the narrative put forth by Arvin, for<br /> me, this isn't some moderate squeamishness about Principles. I hold<br /> them - and though I think his understanding of how they apply to young<br /> people is shallow- that isn't the issue. It is conduct and behavior<br /> repeatedly unbecoming a leader. It is not just this incident, it is a<br /> repeated pattern and refusal to be able to work on a shared vision<br /> that requires utter selfishness to be put aside.<br /> <br /> Things move slow in Region 1 and I don't even expect full answers in<br /> this short time frame.<br /> <br /> On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 11:54 AM Caryn Ann Harlos<br /> <<a href="mailto:caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org">caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org</a>> wrote:<br /> <br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 10:12 AM <<a href="mailto:steven.nekhaila@lp.org">steven.nekhaila@lp.org</a>> wrote:<br /> <br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">Dear Colleagues,<br /> <br /> Coming from a State which has been targeted due to individuals<br /> within<br /> and experienced considerable flack for years despite the great<br /> work we<br /> have accomplished, my advice to this body is to not give in to the<br /> lynch<br /> mobs demands, as I do not believe our policies even give us an<br /> avenue to<br /> act, but instead to encourage those who want to change party<br /> leadership<br /> to participate in the 2018 Libertarian National Convention and<br /> elect the<br /> leadership they would like to see in charge. The leadership is a<br /> reflection of the memberships will, if the membership wills to see<br /> a<br /> regime change that is their right, and the most effective way of<br /> carrying that out is to book accommodations to be at the<br /> convention of<br /> the greatest political party in the United States of America and<br /> be a<br /> part of crafting the future of US politics and culture. That<br /> should be<br /> our only response, it is also the most genuine and effective way<br /> for<br /> anyone who wants leadership change to achieve it. Turning our<br /> muzzles at<br /> each other is not the answer and quite frankly our bylaws do not<br /> allow<br /> it (to my knowledge), and even if it did I would not recommend it.<br /> We<br /> must stay united and move business forward until convention,<br /> encourage<br /> participation in the 2018 convention, and stick to our mission.<br /> Everything is else will end up in futility and that is not what<br /> this<br /> body wants.<br /> <br /> In Liberty,<br /> <br /> Steven Nekhaila<br /> Region 2 Rep Alternate<br /> <br /> Impotentes defendere libertatum non possunt<br /> "Those without power cannot defend freedom"<br /> <br /> On 2018-01-14 10:13 AM, Patrick McKnight wrote:<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">Thank you Elizabeth. I will co-sponsor this motion.<br /> <br /> Patrick McKnight<br /> Region 8 Rep<br /> Chair, NJLP<br /> <br /> On Jan 14, 2018 9:17 AM, "Daniel Hayes" <<a href="mailto:daniel.hayes@lp.org">daniel.hayes@lp.org</a>></blockquote>
wrote:<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">The reality is that people choose to quit. Arvin doesn't</blockquote>
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make<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">them quit. Personal responsibility and all. He sure is</blockquote>
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encouraging<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">the hell out of them though.<br /> <br /> I sure wish those 50 people got this pissed off at Ohio State<br /> Government. It probably would have save us $100,000<br /> <br /> Daniel Hayes<br /> LNC At Large Member<br /> <br /> Sent from my iPhone<br /> <br /> On Jan 14, 2018, at 8:07 AM, Dustin Nanna <<a href="mailto:dustin.nanna@lp.org">dustin.nanna@lp.org</a>><br /> wrote:<br /> <br /> The possibility and reality that he HAS made people quit is why</blockquote>
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I<br />
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">support this motion. That and the 50 or so Ohio members who are<br /> completely disgusted.<br /> <br /> Dustin Nanna<br /> LNC Region 3 Alternate<br /> <br /> Vice Chair/Deputy Communications Director<br /> Libertarian Party of Ohio<br /> <br /> (740) 816-9805 [1]<br /> <br /> On Jan 14, 2018 9:05 AM, Dustin Nanna <<a href="mailto:dustin.nanna@lp.org">dustin.nanna@lp.org</a>></blockquote>
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wrote:<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><br /> Motion, not amendment. Typo<br /> <br /> Dustin Nanna<br /> LNC Region 3 Alternate<br /> <br /> Vice Chair/Deputy Communications Director<br /> Libertarian Party of Ohio<br /> <br /> (740) 816-9805 [1]<br /> <br /> On Jan 14, 2018 9:04 AM, Daniel Hayes <<a href="mailto:daniel.hayes@lp.org">daniel.hayes@lp.org</a>></blockquote>
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wrote:<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><br /> In Louisiana, we have been through some legendary infighting.<br /> We've seen the wear and tear it puts on people and the<br /> organization.<br /> <br /> We had a SCC meeting yesterday and I brought the subject of<br /> Arvin's latest statement up and asked if we wanted to create</blockquote>
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a<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">response. The "No" was palpable. We discussed it further</blockquote>
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and<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">everybody seemed to think that with the convention 5 1/2 months<br /> away, allowing the delegates to handle it by not voting for</blockquote>
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Arvin if<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">he runs again was the way it should be handled.<br /> <br /> I suspect that after a 3 year period of grievances and attempts</blockquote>
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to<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">remove people we maybe have a different perspective than others</blockquote>
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do.<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">What we learned the hard way was the infighting/attempts at<br /> discipline was probably much more destructive than anything</blockquote>
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anybody<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">actually did.<br /> <br /> I see a LOT of opportunistic and hypocritical behavior going on<br /> relative to Arvin. I find those people whipping up the mob to</blockquote>
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be<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">the bigger problem. I think a lot of it likely violates the LP<br /> "Pledge". Attempting to use "force" for political</blockquote>
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gain. I<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">don't mean people don't have a right to be upset. I just</blockquote>
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find it<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">curious that people that seem to think everyone should have a<br /> platform coming out against Arvin, or groups that advocate</blockquote>
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against<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">age of consent laws doing the same.<br /> <br /> I am also disturbed but not surprised by the lynch mob calling</blockquote>
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Arvin<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">a pedophile/pro-pedophile when he has very clearly stated he<br /> definitively opposes pedophilia. This more so applies to people</blockquote>
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that<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">know the distinctions.<br /> <br /> All that said, I am bothered by what seems to be Arvin's</blockquote>
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desire<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">to "purge" the party of the impure. The possibility that</blockquote>
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he is<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">trying to get people to quit is the bigger issue.<br /> <br /> Daniel Hayes<br /> LNC At Large Member<br /> <br /> Daniel Hayes<br /> <br /> Sent from my iPhone<br /> <br /> On Jan 14, 2018, at 7:28 AM, David Demarest</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<<a href="mailto:david.demerest@lp.org">david.demerest@lp.org</a>><br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">wrote:<br /> <br /> The first stone has been cast.<br /> <br /> This motion is not about ideology. It is about the crass</blockquote>
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politics of<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">avoiding scaring voters in order to get elected to top-down<br /> authoritarian positions and hiding the dictates of one's</blockquote>
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conscience<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">'between the sheets' instead courageously proclaiming one's<br /> convictions 'on the streets'.<br /> <br /> This motion will sort out those who have political, ideological</blockquote>
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and<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">moral courage. We will soon see whether the LNC chooses to<br /> differentiate the Libertarian Party from the Republican and<br /> Democratic parties. The future of the LP could be in the</blockquote>
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balance.<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><br /> I will expressly NOT co-sponsor this motion. If it comes to a</blockquote>
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vote,<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">I will proudly, publicly, and emphatically vote "NO"!<br /> <br /> Who among you is willing to cast the second stone?<br /> <br /> Thoughts?<br /> <br /> ~David Pratt Demarest<br /> <br /> On Jan 14, 2018 4:52 AM, Elizabeth Van Horn<br /> <<a href="mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn@lp.org">elizabeth.vanhorn@lp.org</a>> wrote:<br /> <br /> I make a motion to suspend Arvin Vohra from his position as</blockquote>
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Vice<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">Chair under Article 6, Section 7 of our Bylaws.<br /> <br /> </blockquote>
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______________________________<wbr />______________________________<wbr />______________________________<wbr />_<br />
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><br /> Three of the four state affiliate chairs in Region 3 are now</blockquote>
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backing<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">this motion. I told Region 3 that I'd need at least 3/4 of the<br /> region in accord to make the motion to suspend Arvin. That</blockquote>
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percent<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">was reached last night.<br /> <br /> When I volunteered my time and energy to be a Regional Rep on</blockquote>
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the<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">LNC, I didn't do it under the circumstances of, "only if<br /> convenient".<br /> <br /> I'm doing this because I care about giving a voice to the many</blockquote>
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LP<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">members who are running for office, getting out the vote, and<br /> spending their hard-earned money working toward electing<br /> libertarians.<br /> <br /> These are the people that make up the Libertarian Party. It is</blockquote>
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their<br />
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0 0 0 .8ex; border-left: 1px #ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">voice that I represent.<br /> <br /> So, it is with calm resolve that I make this motion.<br /> <br /> --<br /> Elizabeth Van Horn<br /> LNC Region 3 (IN, MI, OH, KY)<br /> Secretary Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana<br /> Chair-LP Social Media Process Review Committee<br /> Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus<br /> <a href="http://www.lpcaucus.org/">http://www.lpcaucus.org/</a></blockquote>
<br />
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If I could co-sponsor, I absolutely would. I've been contacted by more constituents about this issue than any other issue since I started this job. Thank you for putting this forward.</blockquote>
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