<div dir="ltr">Considering the time and digital ink that has been spilled, I will join in a call for an electronic meeting. This is the second time this has been proposed; let's have a full consideration and reach a decision.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Joshua A. Katz<div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 4:48 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org" target="_blank">caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Elizabeth on reflection I think there are some flaws here. I was getting ready to email my state chairs about whether or not to co-sponsor at a minimum but there is not enough information. That section of the Bylaws is "for cause." I know what my reasons are but they are not everyone's, and I would not put my name to something that might affirm something I do not (such supporting the current state of consent laws or fixing the LNC on a position within that contentious subject on which Libertarians disagree). My concerns are behaviour and judgment.<div><br></div><div>I also think this too weighty for an email.</div><div><br></div><div>IMHO a meeting should be called. And the motion IMHO is defective without the cause.</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>-Caryn Ann</div></font></span></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 12:19 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:trent.somes@lp.org" target="_blank">trent.somes@lp.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class="m_7130988012615403002HOEnZb"><div class="m_7130988012615403002h5">On 2018-01-14 14:04, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I find it very sad that a colleague has brought us to this place with<br>
his repeated utter lack of judgment.<br>
<br>
I do not have my requisite Region 1 support at this time - Region 1 in<br>
the past had no use for National and I worked my ass to change that.<br>
Thanks to the incredibly destructive acts of our VC that work is<br>
crumbling.<br>
<br>
If it were solely up to me I would co-sponsor and vote yes. But I am<br>
a representative.<br>
<br>
God help me, if I were ever this utterly destructive to an<br>
organization that I would realize this isn’t about me and my<br>
edgelordiness and step down.<br>
<br>
Despite the opinion of others or the narrative put forth by Arvin, for<br>
me, this isn’t some moderate squeamishness about Principles. I hold<br>
them - and though I think his understanding of how they apply to young<br>
people is shallow- that isn’t the issue. It is conduct and behavior<br>
repeatedly unbecoming a leader. It is not just this incident, it is a<br>
repeated pattern and refusal to be able to work on a shared vision<br>
that requires utter selfishness to be put aside.<br>
<br>
Things move slow in Region 1 and I don’t even expect full answers in<br>
this short time frame.<br>
<br>
On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 11:54 AM Caryn Ann Harlos<br>
<<a href="mailto:caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org" target="_blank">caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
On Sun, Jan 14, 2018 at 10:12 AM <<a href="mailto:steven.nekhaila@lp.org" target="_blank">steven.nekhaila@lp.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Dear Colleagues,<br>
<br>
Coming from a State which has been targeted due to individuals<br>
within<br>
and experienced considerable flack for years despite the great<br>
work we<br>
have accomplished, my advice to this body is to not give in to the<br>
lynch<br>
mobs demands, as I do not believe our policies even give us an<br>
avenue to<br>
act, but instead to encourage those who want to change party<br>
leadership<br>
to participate in the 2018 Libertarian National Convention and<br>
elect the<br>
leadership they would like to see in charge. The leadership is a<br>
reflection of the memberships will, if the membership wills to see<br>
a<br>
regime change that is their right, and the most effective way of<br>
carrying that out is to book accommodations to be at the<br>
convention of<br>
the greatest political party in the United States of America and<br>
be a<br>
part of crafting the future of US politics and culture. That<br>
should be<br>
our only response, it is also the most genuine and effective way<br>
for<br>
anyone who wants leadership change to achieve it. Turning our<br>
muzzles at<br>
each other is not the answer and quite frankly our bylaws do not<br>
allow<br>
it (to my knowledge), and even if it did I would not recommend it.<br>
We<br>
must stay united and move business forward until convention,<br>
encourage<br>
participation in the 2018 convention, and stick to our mission.<br>
Everything is else will end up in futility and that is not what<br>
this<br>
body wants.<br>
<br>
In Liberty,<br>
<br>
Steven Nekhaila<br>
Region 2 Rep Alternate<br>
<br>
Impotentes defendere libertatum non possunt<br>
"Those without power cannot defend freedom"<br>
<br>
On 2018-01-14 10:13 AM, Patrick McKnight wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Thank you Elizabeth. I will co-sponsor this motion.<br>
<br>
Patrick McKnight<br>
Region 8 Rep<br>
Chair, NJLP<br>
<br>
On Jan 14, 2018 9:17 AM, "Daniel Hayes" <<a href="mailto:daniel.hayes@lp.org" target="_blank">daniel.hayes@lp.org</a>><br>
</blockquote>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
The reality is that people choose to quit. Arvin doesn’t<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
make<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
them quit. Personal responsibility and all. He sure is<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
encouraging<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
the hell out of them though.<br>
<br>
I sure wish those 50 people got this pissed off at Ohio State<br>
Government. It probably would have save us $100,000<br>
<br>
Daniel Hayes<br>
LNC At Large Member<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br>
<br>
On Jan 14, 2018, at 8:07 AM, Dustin Nanna <<a href="mailto:dustin.nanna@lp.org" target="_blank">dustin.nanna@lp.org</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
The possibility and reality that he HAS made people quit is why<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
I<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
support this motion. That and the 50 or so Ohio members who are<br>
completely disgusted.<br>
<br>
Dustin Nanna<br>
LNC Region 3 Alternate<br>
<br>
Vice Chair/Deputy Communications Director<br>
Libertarian Party of Ohio<br>
<br>
(740) 816-9805 [1]<br>
<br>
On Jan 14, 2018 9:05 AM, Dustin Nanna <<a href="mailto:dustin.nanna@lp.org" target="_blank">dustin.nanna@lp.org</a>><br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Motion, not amendment. Typo<br>
<br>
Dustin Nanna<br>
LNC Region 3 Alternate<br>
<br>
Vice Chair/Deputy Communications Director<br>
Libertarian Party of Ohio<br>
<br>
(740) 816-9805 [1]<br>
<br>
On Jan 14, 2018 9:04 AM, Daniel Hayes <<a href="mailto:daniel.hayes@lp.org" target="_blank">daniel.hayes@lp.org</a>><br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
In Louisiana, we have been through some legendary infighting.<br>
We’ve seen the wear and tear it puts on people and the<br>
organization.<br>
<br>
We had a SCC meeting yesterday and I brought the subject of<br>
Arvin’s latest statement up and asked if we wanted to create<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
a<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
response. The “No” was palpable. We discussed it further<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
and<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
everybody seemed to think that with the convention 5 1/2 months<br>
away, allowing the delegates to handle it by not voting for<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
Arvin if<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
he runs again was the way it should be handled.<br>
<br>
I suspect that after a 3 year period of grievances and attempts<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
to<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
remove people we maybe have a different perspective than others<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
do.<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
What we learned the hard way was the infighting/attempts at<br>
discipline was probably much more destructive than anything<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
anybody<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
actually did.<br>
<br>
I see a LOT of opportunistic and hypocritical behavior going on<br>
relative to Arvin. I find those people whipping up the mob to<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
be<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
the bigger problem. I think a lot of it likely violates the LP<br>
“Pledge”. Attempting to use “force” for political<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
gain. I<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
don’t mean people don’t have a right to be upset. I just<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
find it<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
curious that people that seem to think everyone should have a<br>
platform coming out against Arvin, or groups that advocate<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
against<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
age of consent laws doing the same.<br>
<br>
I am also disturbed but not surprised by the lynch mob calling<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
Arvin<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
a pedophile/pro-pedophile when he has very clearly stated he<br>
definitively opposes pedophilia. This more so applies to people<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
that<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
know the distinctions.<br>
<br>
All that said, I am bothered by what seems to be Arvin’s<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
desire<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
to “purge” the party of the impure. The possibility that<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
he is<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
trying to get people to quit is the bigger issue.<br>
<br>
Daniel Hayes<br>
LNC At Large Member<br>
<br>
Daniel Hayes<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br>
<br>
On Jan 14, 2018, at 7:28 AM, David Demarest<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
<<a href="mailto:david.demerest@lp.org" target="_blank">david.demerest@lp.org</a>><br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
wrote:<br>
<br>
The first stone has been cast.<br>
<br>
This motion is not about ideology. It is about the crass<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
politics of<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
avoiding scaring voters in order to get elected to top-down<br>
authoritarian positions and hiding the dictates of one's<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
conscience<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
'between the sheets' instead courageously proclaiming one's<br>
convictions 'on the streets'.<br>
<br>
This motion will sort out those who have political, ideological<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
and<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
moral courage. We will soon see whether the LNC chooses to<br>
differentiate the Libertarian Party from the Republican and<br>
Democratic parties. The future of the LP could be in the<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
balance.<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
I will expressly NOT co-sponsor this motion. If it comes to a<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
vote,<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I will proudly, publicly, and emphatically vote "NO"!<br>
<br>
Who among you is willing to cast the second stone?<br>
<br>
Thoughts?<br>
<br>
~David Pratt Demarest<br>
<br>
On Jan 14, 2018 4:52 AM, Elizabeth Van Horn<br>
<<a href="mailto:elizabeth.vanhorn@lp.org" target="_blank">elizabeth.vanhorn@lp.org</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
I make a motion to suspend Arvin Vohra from his position as<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
Vice<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Chair under Article 6, Section 7 of our Bylaws.<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>______________________________<wbr>_<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Three of the four state affiliate chairs in Region 3 are now<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
backing<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
this motion. I told Region 3 that I'd need at least 3/4 of the<br>
region in accord to make the motion to suspend Arvin. That<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
percent<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
was reached last night.<br>
<br>
When I volunteered my time and energy to be a Regional Rep on<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
the<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
LNC, I didn't do it under the circumstances of, "only if<br>
convenient".<br>
<br>
I'm doing this because I care about giving a voice to the many<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
LP<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
members who are running for office, getting out the vote, and<br>
spending their hard-earned money working toward electing<br>
libertarians.<br>
<br>
These are the people that make up the Libertarian Party. It is<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
their<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
voice that I represent.<br>
<br>
So, it is with calm resolve that I make this motion.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Elizabeth Van Horn<br>
LNC Region 3 (IN, MI, OH, KY)<br>
Secretary Libertarian Party of Madison Co, Indiana<br>
Chair-LP Social Media Process Review Committee<br>
Vice-Chair Libertarian Pragmatist Caucus<br>
<a href="http://www.lpcaucus.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.lpcaucus.org/</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Lnc-business mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Lnc-business@hq.lp.org" target="_blank">Lnc-business@hq.lp.org</a><br>
<a href="http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailm<wbr>an/listinfo/lnc-business</a> [2]<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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</blockquote>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
Links:<br>
------<br>
[1] tel:(740)%20816-9805<br>
[2] <a href="http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://hq.lp.org/cgi-bin/mailm<wbr>an/listinfo/lnc-business</a><br>
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</blockquote></div></div>
If I could co-sponsor, I absolutely would. I've been contacted by more constituents about this issue than any other issue since I started this job. Thank you for putting this forward.<br>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
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