<div dir='auto'><div>You'll have to take that characterization up with our membership and the state chairs I've spoken with. Those words did not come from me. <div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Thanks,</div><div dir="auto">Joshua </div><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Dec 23, 2019 4:03 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div dir="auto">The order of operations for one. In an e-meeting members can attend.</div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">I ask you to please stop mischaracterizing those who disagree in good faith.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">-Caryn Ann</div><div><br><div class="elided-text"><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 4:54 PM <<a href="mailto:joshua.smith@lp.org">joshua.smith@lp.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>This thing is public and causing a lot of our membership to be very upset. To the point of lifetime members threatening to ask for refunds and to be removed from our membership list. I have fielded call after call and message after message today with members upset that we wouldn't do something as basic as protect our organization and membership from associating with a child predator. Several from state chairs. <div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">It won't wait till February, and I'm not going to watch TWO motions be ignored while some of us are working to represent and protect our membership. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">What part of an appeal to the ruling of the chair cannot be handled adequately through email?</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">-Joshua </div></div></div><div dir="auto"><div><div><br><div class="elided-text">On Dec 23, 2019 3:38 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <<a href="mailto:caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org">caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div dir="auto">I urge you to get sponsors for electronic meeting or wait until Feb. appeals cannot be adequately handled by email.</div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">-Caryn Ann</div><div><br><div><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 4:23 PM <<a href="mailto:joshua.smith@lp.org">joshua.smith@lp.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto">I'd like to start this email off with a motion appealing the ruling of the chair. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">There is no bylaw explicitly saying that we HAVE to accept someone's contribution. There is also not one stating that we cannot return a donation or terminate a membership. <br></div><div dir="auto"><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Do we not frequently refer to RONR for things that may not be covered in the bylaws like pretty much every other major organization or society? If so, this is a dog and pony show, and we have the authority to return the donation and terminate membership because that's covered on pages 643-644, being the first two pages on Discipline in Chapter XX. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">If we must follow those procedures, I will gladly make a motion as well to get that started, but I'm first appealing the ruling of the chair as there was a motion made by Mr. Phillips with a second. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">In liberty, </div><div dir="auto">-Joshua </div></div><div><br><div></div></div></div><div dir="auto"><div><div>On Dec 23, 2019 2:13 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <<a href="mailto:lnc-business@hq.lp.org">lnc-business@hq.lp.org</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 0.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr">The bylaws limit our power. Just as the constitution was supposed to limit
<br>
the state. They have had many good reasons to violate it - and we now see
<br>
the result.
<br>
<br>
I think the mistake you are making is viewing this as about any particular
<br>
person rather than the objective action.
<br>
<br>
Our dogma and everything about our beliefs anathematizes the act of the
<br>
victimization of children. The act can be condemned objectively and that
<br>
is the Party position.
<br>
<br>
There are also acts that many of us do in secret that are condemned (from
<br>
minor to major).
<br>
<br>
It is the same way the party doesn’t judge whether someone is libertarian
<br>
enough - only whether a particular belief or act is consistent with
<br>
libertarianism.
<br>
<br>
If this were not so, anarchists could theoretically claim the pledge as an
<br>
anarchist blood oath as some have claimed and call everyone else a statist.
<br>
<br>
That is obviously not the correct path.
<br>
<br>
All membership confers is the status of member in minimal compliance. It
<br>
does not declare any person clean.
<br>
<br>
We must respect that the delegates knew of these kinds of issues for
<br>
decades and never gave us that power.
<br>
<br>
They can choose to do so in Austin.
<br>
<br>
I will not grasp power not explicitly given to us. That was my raison
<br>
d’être for being on the LNC to begin with.
<br>
<br>
-Caryn Ann
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 2:57 PM <<a href="mailto:john.phillips@lp.org">john.phillips@lp.org</a>> wrote:
<br>
<br>
> That question was a cut and paste from a member.
<br>
>
<br>
> I see both sides on this. So I am debating my next step.
<br>
>
<br>
> My motion was a compromise one to attempt to reconcile both sides.
<br>
>
<br>
> I will point out that under the logic presented Hitler and Stalin could
<br>
> sign the form and be members were they still alive. So it is not the
<br>
> weightiest of responses to me, though I will not say it is wrong, just
<br>
> carries less weight.
<br>
>
<br>
> The question will come, are we a haven for those who prey on children? Or
<br>
> do we flatly reject those actions?
<br>
>
<br>
> It will also come, do we believe in second chances, and if so what must be
<br>
> done to earn that?
<br>
>
<br>
> Are we as Libertarians so bound in the dogma of our bylaws that we will
<br>
> not look at interpretations to do what is right?
<br>
>
<br>
> Those questions will weigh heavily on my soul, and then in which priority
<br>
> do I place them?
<br>
>
<br>
> If we are to be a haven for predators, I do not know if I will be able to
<br>
> wrap my conscience around that enough to continue to represent this party.
<br>
>
<br>
> This will take some thought.
<br>
>
<br>
> John Phillips
<br>
> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
<br>
> Cell 217-412-5973
<br>
>
<br>
> On Dec 23, 2019 3:36 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <<a href="mailto:caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org">caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org</a>> wrote:
<br>
>
<br>
> Mr. Phillips please allow me to give some history here. The pledge WAS
<br>
> never intended to be a gatekeeper to exclude people from the Party because
<br>
> as David Nolan said, bad people will lie. While it legitimately reflects
<br>
> our beliefs and it is hoped it is signed in sincerity of internal beliefs,
<br>
> its purpose was to protect the Party from the government and to educate
<br>
> members. Further, if any evil person reformed themselves, they could
<br>
> legitimately sign the pledge. I doubt any of us are free from past
<br>
> aggression. I have no idea of this individual's current state of
<br>
> repentance, but such difficulties are exactly why that was never the
<br>
> purpose of the pledge as originally intended.
<br>
>
<br>
> <a href="http://lpedia.org/Libertarian_Membership_Pledge">http://lpedia.org/Libertarian_Membership_Pledge</a>
<br>
>
<br>
> Just recently we had a few members calling for the expulsion of any parent
<br>
> that spanks their children - that is not a fallacious slippery slope, it is
<br>
> one supported with evidence. I am NAPster purist as they come, but we are
<br>
> not the judgment throne of God.
<br>
>
<br>
> -Caryn Ann
<br>
>
<br>
> *In Liberty,*
<br>
>
<br>
> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
<br>
> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal
<br>
> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone
<br>
> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
<br>
> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
<br>
>
<br>
>
<br>
>
<br>
> On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 2:21 PM john.phillips--- via Lnc-business <
<br>
> <a href="mailto:lnc-business@hq.lp.org">lnc-business@hq.lp.org</a>> wrote:
<br>
>
<br>
> I question whether someone who has engaged in child prostitution can
<br>
> legitimately sign the NAP. Would we have to accept Jeffrey Dahmer or
<br>
> Timothy Mcveigh's applications?
<br>
>
<br>
> John Phillips
<br>
> Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
<br>
> Cell 217-412-5973
<br>
>
<br>
> On Dec 23, 2019 2:35 PM, Nicholas Sarwark via Lnc-business <
<br>
> <a href="mailto:lnc-business@hq.lp.org">lnc-business@hq.lp.org</a>> wrote:
<br>
>
<br>
> Dear All,
<br>
>
<br>
> I'm going to start with the relevant section of the Bylaws, since it makes
<br>
> it easier to reference for those reading:
<br>
> "ARTICLE 4: MEMBERSHIP
<br>
> 1. Members of the Party shall be those persons who have certified in
<br>
> writing
<br>
> that they oppose the initiation of force to achieve political or social
<br>
> goals.
<br>
> 2. The National Committee may offer life memberships, and must honor all
<br>
> prior and future life memberships.
<br>
> 3. The National Committee may create other levels of membership and shall
<br>
> determine the contribution or dues levels for such memberships.
<br>
> 4. “Sustaining members” are members of the Party who: a. During the prior
<br>
> twelve months have donated, or have had donated on their behalf, an amount
<br>
> of at least $25; or b. Are Life members."
<br>
>
<br>
> The person mentioned in the motion has met the conditions set forth in the
<br>
> bylaws (Art. 4, Sec. 1 and 4) to be a sustaining member of the Libertarian
<br>
> Party as of the date that the contribution and attached signed
<br>
> certification were processed.
<br>
>
<br>
> It may be in order to refund the person's contribution as part of the
<br>
> LNC's
<br>
> prerogative to issue directives overriding those of the Chair, though it
<br>
> would not be in order if it had the effect of denying that person a
<br>
> sustaining membership. Art. 4, Sec. 4 can be read as applying by the fact
<br>
> of the person making the donation, even if the donation was subsequently
<br>
> refunded. That's a somewhat strained reading of it, so it would be better
<br>
> if the motion made it clear that it was a refund without a change in
<br>
> sustaining
<br>
> membership status.
<br>
>
<br>
> The latter half of the motion is out of order as the membership
<br>
> application
<br>
> has been processed.
<br>
>
<br>
> The mover has the option to rewrite the motion to fit within my
<br>
> interpretation of the bylaws outlined above, appeal from the ruling of the
<br>
> Chair, or ask for time on the agenda in February.
<br>
>
<br>
> Yours truly,
<br>
> Nick
<br>
>
<br>
> On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 11:47 AM john.phillips--- via Lnc-business <
<br>
> <a href="mailto:lnc-business@hq.lp.org">lnc-business@hq.lp.org</a>> wrote:
<br>
>
<br>
> > A point I considered Caryn Ann and Alex, and appreciate. I considered
<br>
> it
<br>
> > moot as someone else had already made the name public, but still had
<br>
> qualms
<br>
> >
<br>
> > I agree on not using it going forward.
<br>
> >
<br>
> > John Phillips
<br>
> > Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
<br>
> > Cell 217-412-5973
<br>
> >
<br>
> > On Dec 23, 2019 7:40 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <<a href="mailto:caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org">caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org</a>>
<br>
> wrote:
<br>
> >
<br>
> > I would encourage you to add this to February agenda. The chair has
<br>
> > indicated that discussion of non-public figures is not appropriate for a
<br>
> > public list.
<br>
> >
<br>
> > -Caryn Ann
<br>
> >
<br>
> > On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 5:58 AM john.phillips--- via Lnc-business <
<br>
> > <a href="mailto:lnc-business@hq.lp.org">lnc-business@hq.lp.org</a>> wrote:
<br>
> >
<br>
> > Given that the nature of this is no longer as time sensitive, I disagree
<br>
> > with the interpretation that it is not a matter we can address, as was
<br>
> > pointed out no ruling of the chair was officially given, and I find the
<br>
> > situation in general disturbing, I will ask for co-sponsors for the
<br>
> > following motion.
<br>
> >
<br>
> > "The L.N.C. directs the Executive Director to refund the donation of
<br>
> Royce
<br>
> > Corley, and further not accept his membership application until after
<br>
> the
<br>
> > National Convention in May of 2020."
<br>
> >
<br>
> > This will allow the delegates, if they choose to address it, to make a
<br>
> > decision either in specific or in general about such situations, while
<br>
> > addressing the current objections of several members of this board and
<br>
> many
<br>
> > of the party members currently.
<br>
> >
<br>
> > As always I am open to suggestions and motions regarding alternative
<br>
> > wording.
<br>
> >
<br>
> > John Phillips
<br>
> > Libertarian National Committee Region 6 Representative
<br>
> > Cell 217-412-5973
<br>
> >
<br>
> > --
<br>
> >
<br>
> > *In Liberty,*
<br>
> >
<br>
> > * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
<br>
> > (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal
<br>
> > communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone
<br>
> > found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
<br>
> faux
<br>
> > pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
<br>
> >
<br>
> >
<br>
> >
<br>
>
<br>
>
<br>
>
<br>
> --
<br>
<br>
*In Liberty,*
<br>
<br>
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
<br>
(part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal
<br>
communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone
<br>
found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
<br>
pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
<br>
</p>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="letter-spacing:0.2px"><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif;letter-spacing:normal"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:small"><b style="color:rgb( 102 , 102 , 102 );font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif;font-size:large"> </b></div><div style="font-size:small"><b style="color:rgb( 102 , 102 , 102 );font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif;font-size:large">In Liberty,</b><br></div><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:small"><b style="color:rgb( 255 , 0 , 255 );font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif;font-size:large"><i><img src="https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1DeRjq-L8dvRZabgEG94VkkUvjoHatcfP&export=download" width="200" height="41"></i></b><br></div><div><i style="font-size:small"><font size="1"><b> Personal Note: </b> I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. </font></i><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style="font-size:small"><div style="text-align:center"><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="letter-spacing:0.2px"><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif;letter-spacing:normal"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:small"><b style="color:rgb( 102 , 102 , 102 );font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif;font-size:large"> </b></div><div style="font-size:small"><b style="color:rgb( 102 , 102 , 102 );font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif;font-size:large">In Liberty,</b><br></div><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:small"><b style="color:rgb( 255 , 0 , 255 );font-family:'arial' , 'helvetica' , sans-serif;font-size:large"><i><img src="https://drive.google.com/uc?id=1DeRjq-L8dvRZabgEG94VkkUvjoHatcfP&export=download" width="200" height="41"></i></b><br></div><div><i style="font-size:small"><font size="1"><b> Personal Note: </b> I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux pas), please contact me privately and let me know. </font></i><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style="font-size:small"><div style="text-align:center"><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>