<div dir='auto'>You are opposing central planning by attempting to remove the delegates ability to decide the course themselves and centrally plan everything to your liking from a seat on the LNC.<br><br><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Justin O'Donnell<br>LNC Region 8 Representative</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On May 14, 2020 10:03 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:<br type="attribution" /><blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr">Colorado just weighed in. Sick of the circus - give them ballots and trust
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the state chairs to know their delegations.
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This one size fits all us central planning at its most hideous in this
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circumstances.
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On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:42 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org>
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wrote:
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> I am not either EVH. I’m seeing calls to have a simple ballot on the
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> ticket and that alone
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>
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> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 7:30 AM Elizabeth Van Horn via Lnc-business <
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> lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
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>
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>> Feedback from Region 3 is come from a small number of frustrated people
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>> who were either unable to log-in to the test, didn't get the emails, or
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>> other procedural problems.
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>>
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>> I'm not seeing calls for scuttling the compromise. (one of my state
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>> chairs did suggest having 51 people on Zoom, and it be the state chairs.
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>> Each representing their state delegates. (Which might be on separate
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>> group meetings, I'm not sure, I'll need to ask if he has specifics on
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>> that.)
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>>
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>> ---
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>> Elizabeth Van Horn
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>> LNC Region 3 Representative (IN, MI, OH, KY)
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>>
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>> On 2020-05-14 08:51, joe.bishop-henchman--- via Lnc-business wrote:
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>>
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>> > I'm also on the state chairs list and the frustration being expressed
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>> is the voting in the test system is *too* centralized, with a stated
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>> preference that the votes on everything go through delegation chairs to
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>> ensure everyone's vote is counted.
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>> >
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>> > On May 14, 2020 8:37 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
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>> lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
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>> >
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>> >> Mr. Nanna, I am reading the state chair's list. It is not presently
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>> >> acceptable to them. The shining ray of hope is that they look like
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>> they
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>> >> are willing to tell us to take our procedure and shove it and work it
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>> out
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>> >> for themselves. Localization is better in this party too. But the
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>> fact
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>> >> that the rest of the party is happy with this is a fiction.
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>> >>
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>> >> *In Liberty,*
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>> >>
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>> >> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
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>> >> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal
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>> >> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If
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>> anyone
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>> >> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
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>> faux
<br>
>> >> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
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>> >>
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>> >> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 6:23 AM Caryn Ann Harlos <
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>> caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org>
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>> >> wrote:
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>> >>
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>> >>> I disagree with your assessment and that's okay. Last night's test
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>> caused
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>> >>> even more issues and the comments and hostilities over that made me
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>> disable
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>> >>> Facebook.
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>> >>>
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>> >>> This online convention scheme is going to create a division far worse
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>> than
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>> >>> Portland. Ten years from now it will still be going.
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>> >>>
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>> >>> There is only one thing I know we can do well. Simple ballotting.
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>> >>>
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>> >>> But whatever happens happens.
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>> >>>
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>> >>> But I can't support this gross violation of members rights and
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>> trading
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>> >>> rights for peace is an abdication.
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>> >>>
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>> >>> If this suicide route is what the LNC chooses, it has the right to do
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>> so.
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>> >>> To claim it us for peace is a farce I won't let go unchallenged.
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>> >>>
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>> >>> If it happens I will do my best to minimize rights violations that I
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>> can
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>> >>> by making things smoother.
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>> >>>
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>> >>> But to sell member rights and call it peace is something you can tell
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>> >>> yourself. I can't.
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>> >>>
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>> >>> I can only hope states take the bull by the horns and plan to protect
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>> >>> their own member rights the best they can.
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>> >>>
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>> >>> On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 5:44 AM Alex Merced (LNC Vice Chair) via
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>> >>> Lnc-business <lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
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>> >>>
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>> >>>> I second the exact sentiments from Representative O'Donnell, we
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>> should
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>> >>>> work to honor the compromise and I will vote against any move
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>> towards any
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>> >>>> extreme one way or the other.
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>> >>>>
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>> >>>> With such limited time it's logistically unclear whether an all
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>> online
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>> >>>> convention could be sufficiently executed and with ballot access
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>> >>>> considerations and uncertainty in Orlando it is unwise to leave the
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>> P/VP
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>> >>>> nominations to July.
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>> >>>>
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>> >>>> Let's honor the compromise, the hostility among this body is
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>> becoming too
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>> >>>> much of a distraction to members who could otherwise be organizing,
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>> >>>> campaigning and doings things other than being frustrated and
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>> confused by
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>> >>>> the uncertainty those who want either extreme are creating.
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>> >>>>
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>> >>>> Let's create certainty for our members by honoring the compromise.
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>> >>>>
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>> >>>> Alex Merced
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>> >>>> Vice Chair of the Libertarian National Committee/LP
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>> >>>>
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>> >>>>> On May 14, 2020, at 12:35 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos via Lnc-business <
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>> >>>> lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
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>> >>>>>
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>> >>>>> I will co-sponsor. I want to give my reasons. The chair is
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>> >>>> subverting the
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>> >>>>> will of the LNC, and the LNC needs to take back its rightful
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>> control of
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>> >>>> its
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>> >>>>> own decisions. I do not know if I am going to vote for it. But it
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>> >>>> needs
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>> >>>>> to be heard.
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>> >>>>>
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>> >>>>> If a concurrent motion is offered to have an acceptable compromise,
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>> I
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>> >>>> will
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>> >>>>> definitely vote for this. But without such I do not know my
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>> answer.
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>> >>>> But I
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>> >>>>> will co-sponsor as a sign of my objection to the usurping of the
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>> >>>> authority
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>> >>>>> of the LNC by one person.
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>> >>>>>
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>> >>>>> *In Liberty,*
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>> >>>>>
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>> >>>>> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
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>> Syndrome
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>> >>>>> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal
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>> >>>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If
<br>
>> anyone
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>> >>>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
<br>
>> social
<br>
>> >>>> faux
<br>
>> >>>>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
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>> >>>>>
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>> >>>>>
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>> >>>>>
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>> >>>>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <
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>> >>>> caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org>
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>> >>>>>> wrote:
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>> >>>>>>
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>> >>>>>> Mr. Phillips we can concurrently offer the Adams compromise that
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>> would
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>> >>>> be
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>> >>>>>> a ballot that expires concurrently with this one or one day later.
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>> >>>>>>
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>> >>>>>> *In Liberty,*
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>> >>>>>>
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>> >>>>>> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
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>> Syndrome
<br>
>> >>>>>> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal
<br>
>> >>>>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If
<br>
>> anyone
<br>
>> >>>>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
<br>
>> social
<br>
>> >>>> faux
<br>
>> >>>>>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
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>> >>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>
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>> >>>>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:28 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <
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>> >>>> caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org>
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>> >>>>>> wrote:
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>> >>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>> EVH, I think your point has merit. If this motion passes, I
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>> >>>>>>> would re-offer the Erin Adams compromise motion or something very
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>> >>>> similar
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>> >>>>>>> unless someone convinces me that would be unwise.
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>> >>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>> From what I hear from what happened tonight - not the things that
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>> >>>> will be
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>> >>>>>>> fixed with practices - but with the inherent flaws that make this
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>> NOT
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>> >>>> a
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>> >>>>>>> deliberative process and our chair's comments about points of
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>> order
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>> >>>> and
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>> >>>>>>> parliamentary inquiry, I do not believe we can pull this off and
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>> >>>> protect
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>> >>>>>>> rights. If that is the route the LNC decides to take, I will
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>> respect
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>> >>>> it
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>> >>>>>>> and do my best, but the best at impossible is still impossible.
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>> >>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>> But we did commit to a compromise. But our compromise where our
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>> chair
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>> >>>>>>> has vowed to skuttle it is no compromise. We need one that
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>> cannot be
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>> >>>>>>> skuttled by the chair. Ms. Adams' compromise is far superior.
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>> After
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>> >>>>>>> getting some advise, I may be seeking co-sponsors for a
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>> concurrent
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>> >>>> ballot
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>> >>>>>>> with this one to expire after it that would adopt the Adams
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>> motion.
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>> >>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
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>> >>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
<br>
>> Syndrome
<br>
>> >>>>>>> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal
<br>
>> >>>>>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If
<br>
>> >>>> anyone
<br>
>> >>>>>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
<br>
>> social
<br>
>> >>>> faux
<br>
>> >>>>>>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
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>> >>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 10:23 PM Caryn Ann Harlos <
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>> >>>>>>> caryn.ann.harlos@lp.org> wrote:
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>> >>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>> Email ballots do not require four co-sponsors from the winning
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>> side.
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>> >>>>>>>> The sponsors are like seconds. I have not decided if I am
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>> going to
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>> >>>>>>>> support this motion, but I am not going to let it get squashed
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>> by
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>> >>>>>>>> procedure. But you are incorrect on the point of order to begin
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>> >>>> with. We
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>> >>>>>>>> are not in the same session. That requirement for the winning
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>> side
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>> >>>> is only
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>> >>>>>>>> in the same session. A rescind does not require someone on the
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>> >>>> winning
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>> >>>>>>>> side. If you need the RONR pages, I can provide them.
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>> >>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
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>> >>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
<br>
>> >>>> Syndrome
<br>
>> >>>>>>>> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal
<br>
>> >>>>>>>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If
<br>
>> >>>> anyone
<br>
>> >>>>>>>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other
<br>
>> social
<br>
>> >>>> faux
<br>
>> >>>>>>>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
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>> >>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 9:48 PM justin.odonnell--- via
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>> Lnc-business <
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>> >>>>>>>> lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
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>> >>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>> I object to this motion.
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>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>> The purpose of the compromise we came to was to accomodate
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>> ballot
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>> >>>>>>>>> access deadlines and the recognition that a July date made
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>> doing so
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>> >>>>>>>>> impossible or impractical. Ignoring those concerns is
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>> irresponsible
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>> >>>> and
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>> >>>>>>>>> damaging to the Party. Furthermore, we waited too long to make
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>> a
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>> >>>> decision
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>> >>>>>>>>> in the first place, this is on us. We all knew well before last
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>> >>>> weekend
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>> >>>>>>>>> that Memorial Day in Texas wasn't going to fly in the current
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>> >>>> climate, we
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>> >>>>>>>>> have noone but ourselves to blame for letting things get to
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>> this
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>> >>>> point with
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>> >>>>>>>>> wishful thinking. Its time to stop acting childish, suck it up,
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>> and
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>> >>>> make
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>> >>>>>>>>> the best of the situation we're in.
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>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>> On parliamentary grounds, a motion to reconsider is required to
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>> be
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>> >>>> made
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>> >>>>>>>>> by a member of the prevailing side, I would argue that an email
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>> >>>> ballot
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>> >>>>>>>>> requires 4 valid cosponsors, and thus would require 4 members
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>> from
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>> >>>> the
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>> >>>>>>>>> prevailing side to cosponsor in order to be a valid motion.
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>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>> Justin O'Donnell
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>> >>>>>>>>> LNC Region 8 Representative
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>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>> On May 13, 2020 11:04 PM, Alicia Mattson via Lnc-business <
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>> >>>>>>>>> lnc-business@hq.lp.org> wrote:
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>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>> I ask for email ballot co-sponsors for the following motion to:
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>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>> Rescind in its entirety the motion adopted during the May 9,
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>> 2020
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>> >>>> LNC
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>> >>>>>>>>> meeting, which called for a convention to begin on May 22, 2020
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>> with
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>> >>>>>>>>> business conducted online. Instead, in accordance with Bylaw
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>> >>>> Article
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>> >>>>>>>>> 10.1,
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>> >>>>>>>>> the LNC calls an in-person convention to occur during the dates
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>> of
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>> >>>> July
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>> >>>>>>>>> 8-12, 2020 at Rosen Shingle Creek in Orlando, Florida.
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>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>> I know that I was on the losing side of a 13-4 motion on
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>> Saturday,
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>> >>>>>>>>> however
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>> >>>>>>>>> after tonight's train-wreck and the information I learned
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>> during
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>> >>>> it, I
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>> >>>>>>>>> believe that some LNC members from the other side are ready to
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>> >>>> change
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>> >>>>>>>>> course. If I did not believe that to be the case, I would not
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>> offer
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>> >>>>>>>>> this
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>> >>>>>>>>> motion. To preserve options for the LNC, given the 7-day
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>> voting
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>> >>>> period
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>> >>>>>>>>> for
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>> >>>>>>>>> an email ballot, I want to start this motion now so that it can
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>> >>>>>>>>> complete by
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>> >>>>>>>>> next Wednesday.
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>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>> I will have a LOT to say about this soon, as will others, but
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>> my
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>> >>>> first
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>> >>>>>>>>> focus is getting the co-sponsors. Then we can debate.
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>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>> -Alicia
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>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>> <
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>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>
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>> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
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>> >>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>> Virus-free.
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>> >>>>>>>>> www.avg.com
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>> >>>>>>>>> <
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>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>
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>> http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
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>> >>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
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>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>>>>>>
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>> >>>>
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>> >>>> --
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>> >>>
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>> >>> *In Liberty,*
<br>
>> >>>
<br>
>> >>> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's
<br>
>> Syndrome
<br>
>> >>> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal
<br>
>> >>> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If
<br>
>> anyone
<br>
>> >>> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social
<br>
>> faux
<br>
>> >>> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
<br>
>> >>>
<br>
>> >>>
<br>
>>
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> --
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>
<br>
> *In Liberty,*
<br>
>
<br>
> * Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
<br>
> (part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal
<br>
> communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone
<br>
> found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
<br>
> pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
<br>
>
<br>
> --
<br>
<br>
*In Liberty,*
<br>
<br>
* Personal Note: I have what is commonly known as Asperger's Syndrome
<br>
(part of the autism spectrum). This can affect inter-personal
<br>
communication skills in both personal and electronic arenas. If anyone
<br>
found anything offensive or overly off-putting (or some other social faux
<br>
pas), please contact me privately and let me know. *
<br>
</p>
</blockquote></div><br></div>