[Lnc-business] February LNC Meeting

Wed Jan 6 08:35:30 EST 2016

I would like a quick poll between the two cities since my preference is
still Phoenix so we can view the two potential
convention hotels.  Per Dr. Lark's remarks above, I see no reason to have a
meeting at OKC.

Sam Goldstein

On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 7:58 AM, Scott L. <scott73 at earthlink.net> wrote:

>
>
> If the Chair thinks a photo op is necessary when the Oklahoma signatures
> are presented to the Oklahoma Secretary of State’s office, I have no
> problem whatsoever with him using his discretionary funds to fly from
> Phoenix to OKC to be present at that event.
>
>
>
> However, since the Chair specifically mentions Friday or Monday, it is
> pretty obvious that for a majority of the LNC to be present at such a press
> conference, they need to fly to Oklahoma on Thursday, or leave on Monday.
> That means spending the money for an additional night at the hotel, plus
> missing a day of work.
>
>
>
>    Scott Lieberman
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Nicholas Sarwark
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 05, 2016 8:37 PM
> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] February LNC Meeting
>
>
>
> We have received bids from convention hotels in Bellevue, Phoenix, New
> Orleans, and Atlantic City.  Based on the poll Mr. Ludlow organized, I'm
> leaning toward planning the meeting for Oklahoma City.
>
> Robert is checking on final numbers on the bids that came in today, and
> should have those back by tomorrow.  All of the other cities are more
> expensive than Oklahoma City, but I think we already knew that.
>
> If you feel we should have another poll between Phoenix and Oklahoma City,
> please say so.  If I don't hear a strong objection or request for another
> poll in the next day or so, I intend to ask Mr. Benedict to go forward with
> planning the next meeting in Oklahoma City and
>
> *coordinating with the Oklahoma Libertarian Party for a press conference
> on the Friday prior or Monday after the meeting.*
>
>   Nick
>
>
>
>
>
> GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGg
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 4:32 PM, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ms. Kirkland is right.  I completely missed Mr. Marsh's response.  So
> sorry, Ed and thanks, Vicki.  That leaves Mr. Tomasso and Mr. Windeler
> unaccounted for; I have a message out to both of them.  24 of 26 on our LNC
> list have weighed in.
>
>
>
> *Oklahoma City*
>
> Gary Johnson
>
> Marc Feldman
>
> Nick Sarwark
>
> Vicki Kirkland (originally voted New Orleans)
>
> Guy McLendon (originally voted New Orleans)
>
> Wes Benedict
> Norm Olsen (voted via email instead of the poll)
> Daniel Hayes (voted in email instead of the poll)
>
> Jim Lark
> Sean O'Toole (voted in email instead of poll)
> Scott Spencer
> Bill Redpath
>
>
>
> *Phoenix*
>
> Kevin Ludlow
>
> Sam Goldstein
>
> Dan Wiener
>
> Alicia Mattson
>
> Tim Hagan
>
> Scott Lieberman
> Brett Bittner (originally voted Oklahoma City)
>
>
>
> *New Orleans*
>
> Arvin Vohra
> Doug Craig (voted in email instead of poll)
>
>
>
> *Atlantic City*
> Josh Katz
>
> Ed Marsh
>
> *Bellevue*
> Roland Rimers
>
> *Have not heard from*
>
> Ron Windeler
>
> Rich Tomasso
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 5:06 PM, Vicki Kirkland <vickilp12 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Ed Marsh voted for Atlantic City.
>
>
>
> Vicki Kirkland
>
> Region 2 Rep
>
>
>
>
>
>
> GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 5:53 PM, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I texted with Mr. Redpath and he did in fact select OKC.  I left a text
> message for Mr. Tomasso, and voice messages for Mr. Marsh and Mr.
> Windeler.  They are the 3 outstanding voices.  I've reflected the tally
> below.
>
> > Count the emails going back 2 months on this topic Maybe next term
> delegate the decision to the chair?
>
> Like many people on this board, the chair is a family man.  I am not.  I
> have more time.  I fail to see why it matters who accomplishes a goal we
> all agreed would be accomplished at our last meeting.  Furthermore, we
> spent 2 months and got a mere 6 voices to weigh in.  We just had 23
> different voices speak up in less than 2 days.  I'll let my process stand
> for itself.
>
> >Kevin, what would big business people say?
>
> They wouldn't say anything.  They would have done their job 4 weeks ago
> and been through a dozen other items since.
>
> As a final response, I want to point out that I don't care about the
> politics of this and I likely never will.  I want to get stuff done.  I did
> what I felt it would take to get stuff done.  And in the matter of getting
> the board to participate, I got that stuff done.  I'm not challenging
> anybody, I just don't want to waste my precious hours on futility.
>
>
> *Oklahoma City*
>
> Gary Johnson
>
> Marc Feldman
>
> Nick Sarwark
>
> Vicki Kirkland (originally voted New Orleans)
>
> Guy McLendon (originally voted New Orleans)
>
> Wes Benedict
> Norm Olsen (voted via email instead of the poll)
> Daniel Hayes (voted in email instead of the poll)
>
> Jim Lark
> Sean O'Toole (voted in email instead of poll)
> Scott Spencer
> Bill Redpath
>
>
>
> *Phoenix*
>
> Kevin Ludlow
>
> Sam Goldstein
>
> Dan Wiener
>
> Alicia Mattson
>
> Tim Hagan
>
> Scott Lieberman
> Brett Bittner (originally voted Oklahoma City)
>
>
>
> *New Orleans*
>
> Arvin Vohra
> Doug Craig (voted in email instead of poll)
>
>
>
> *Atlantic City*
> Josh Katz
>
> *Bellevue*
> Roland Rimers
>
> *Have not heard from*
>
> Ron Windeler
>
> Ed Marsh
>
> Rich Tomasso
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Wes Benedict <wes.benedict at lp.org> wrote:
>
> Count the emails going back 2 months on this topic. Maybe next term
> delegate the decision to the chair?
>
>
>
> Kevin, what would big business people say? (Not counting walmart or
> Berkshire Hathaway-those guys are cheap. )
>
>
>
> Can I change my vote to half for OKC and half for New Orleans?
>
> I'm craving crawfish. And I'm worried basking in the Phoenix sun will
> make me want to move LPHQ to Phoenix.
>
>
>
> I don't worry about being tempted to move to OKC. Same for New Orleans
> for different reasons. Too much fun = too unhealthy to actually live there.
>
>
>
> Happy new year!
>
>
>
> p.s. On vacation so cut me slack on quality of humor and legitimate
> content.
>
>
> On Dec 31, 2015, at 5:00 PM, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> While I am again certain that Mr. Kraus is very well-intended here, he
> illustrates the point that I have been trying to make for weeks.  This is
> the kind of stamp-counting that the LP gets caught up in.
>
> We know there is SOME cost to having meetings. While there does exist a
> subjective level whereby we would have to factor the cost of something,
> $2,500 needs to be seen as pennies.  We're talking about a meeting for
> 20-30 people for executive leadership of the party.  I believe our annual
> budget is about $1.4m?
>
> $2,500 is 0.18% of $1.4m.  I realize that it might seem like a lot of
> money to some people, but in ANY business examination of the costs we're
> working with, it's pennies on the dollar.  I don't mean to sound
> insensitive there, but it's the reality of it.  If the body needs to
> consume an addition 0.18% of its resources to ensure the party is best
> represented, even if it has to do this 4 times per year, it doesn't make a
> dent in our budget.
>
> There are plenty of very wealthy, high-profile Libertarians around the
> country.  I am certain any of them would agree with my analysis here.  This
> is not an issue of frugality, but rather inexperience with real-world
> business.  I promise I say that lovingly, but we need to address is very
> seriously.
>
> -Kevin Ludlow
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 3:44 PM, Robert Kraus <robert.kraus at lp.org> wrote:
>
> Just to clarify – I was not talking about what was cheaper for YOU ALL –
> but what is likely to be the least expensive option for the PARTY AND OUR
> DONORS. At time a/v and wifi alone can run $1500 plus an additional $500 a
> day (or more) for cost of the meeting room. That’s likely to be $2500 in
> savings for the PARTY and our donors if you all decide on OKC. In terms of
> room savings – cost of travel – that is of course a factor too because our
> donors pay for staff to go to these meetings.
>
>
>
> Of course the least expensive option FOR THE PARTY (and our donors) is
> almost always to hold meeting sin DC near the office.
>
>
>
> Happy New Year!
>
>
>
> *Robert*
>
> size=3 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
>
> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Kevin Ludlow
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 31, 2015 4:39 PM
>
>
> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] February LNC Meeting
>
>
>
> While I appreciate what Mr. Kraus is saying, I will defer back to my
> lengthy email from a week ago and echo exactly what Dr. Lieberman just
> wrote.
>
> I was *intentionally* meaning for the body to make a decision WITHOUT
> factoring cost.  We are the very top leadership of the Libertarian Party.
> It is an absurdity to think we would skirt what is ultimately best for the
> party to save ourselves some money.  While I am intent upon selecting a
> location so that at least we can save as much money as possible with
> advanced planning, that is a stark difference from selecting a location
> specifically because it would save us money.
>
> If I had the telephone numbers of the remaining 4 members who have not
> voted I would call them right now.  If you have their number I would
> encourage YOU to call them.  If somebody would like to send me those I will
> in fact do so.  Either way, I would hope that our body selects the location
> based upon their analysis of what is most important for the PARTY, not for
> their own wallet.  Factor the 2018 convention.  Factor the likeliness of
> selecting a location more suited for the delegation.  Factor the OKC ballot
> drive if you like.  But please don't factor it because it's cheapest for
> you.
>
> Thank you for enduring my continued positions on this matter.
>
> Kevin Ludlow
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Scott L. <scott73 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> Remember – the LNC is supposed to be checking out potential Convention
> sites when we meet, at least when we have potential Convention sites to
> check out.
>
>
>
> Do we really want to report to our constituents that instead of checking
> out potential 2018 Convention hotels we chose
>
> Oklahoma City for a meeting because it might save LNC members a grand
> total of maybe $90 each?
>
>
>
> I suggest we wait until Tuesday and see what Helms-Briscoe comes up with.
>
>
>
>     Scott Lieberman
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Robert Kraus
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 31, 2015 12:50 PM
> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] February LNC Meeting
>
>
>
> Quick update:
>
>
>
> I have OKC on hold until next week so the space is available. HB said they
> are working on finalizing details for one Phoenix location, Atlantic City
> and New Orleans. We will likely here back Mon or Tue.  So hopefully all
> the options will be available for final review early next week and a
> decision can be made. Once you all see the costs (and substancial savings
> vs HB) perhaps the votes will change. Right now the only firm expenses are
> OKC – the best deal shown below (also includes all of our usual a/v):
>
>
>
> <image001.gif>
>
>
>
> Mind you the sales manager is libertarian so perhaps that helped!
>
>
>
> Happy New Year!
>
>
>
> *Robert*
>
>
>
>
> GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
>
> <hr size=3 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
>
> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Wes Benedict
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 31, 2015 3:32 PM
> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] February LNC Meeting
>
>
>
> I was about to ask Robert to get a contract underway for OKC before he
> goes on vacation next week but  with Bittners change , it's too close to
> call.
>
>
>
> Bittner if you switch back it could expedite a final contract and decision
> by as much as a week.
>
>
>
> I'm fine either place. Any time.
>
>
>
> Robert, provide other commentary if you'd like.
>
>
>
> I'm on vacation this week and not following the details as closely as when
> on the clock.
>
>
>
> On Dec 31, 2015, at 2:02 PM, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sure thing.  Reflected in the tallies below.
>
>
> * Oklahoma City*
>
> Gary Johnson
>
> Marc Feldman
>
> Nick Sarwark
>
> Vicki Kirkland (originally voted New Orleans)
>
> Guy McLendon (originally voted New Orleans)
>
> Wes Benedict
> Norm Olsen (voted via email instead of the poll)
> Daniel Hayes (voted in email instead of the poll)
>
> Jim Lark
> Sean O'Toole (voted in email instead of poll)
> Scott Spencer
>
>
>
> *Phoenix*
>
> Kevin Ludlow
>
> Sam Goldstein
>
> Dan Wiener
>
> Alicia Mattson
>
> Tim Hagan
>
> Scott Lieberman
> Brett Bittner (originally voted Oklahoma City)
>
>
>
> *New Orleans*
>
> Arvin Vohra
> Doug Craig (voted in email instead of poll)
>
>
>
> *Atlantic City*
> Josh Katz
>
> *Bellevue*
> Roland Rimers
>
> *Have not heard from*
>
> Bill Redpath
> Ron Windeler
>
> Ed Marsh
>
> Rich Tomasso
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Brett Bittner <brett at brettbittner.com>
> wrote:
>
> After further consideration, can my preference be changed to Phoenix?
>
> Brett Bittner
>
> **This message sent from my phone. Please excuse any typos.
>
> On Dec 31, 2015 13:34, "Kevin Ludlow" <ludlow at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> And now as of 12:30 CST there are only 4 votes outstanding.  If anybody
> could contact those 4 just to have said everyone weighed in, it would be
> nice to see us utilize technology.
>
>
>
> *Oklahoma City*
>
> Gary Johnson
>
> Marc Feldman
>
> Brett Bittner
>
> Nick Sarwark
>
> Vicki Kirkland (originally voted New Orleans)
>
> Guy McLendon (originally voted New Orleans)
>
> Wes Benedict
> Norm Olsen (voted via email instead of the poll)
> Daniel Hayes (voted in email instead of the poll)
>
> Jim Lark
> Sean O'Toole (voted in email instead of poll)
> Scott Spencer
>
>
>
> *Phoenix*
>
> Kevin Ludlow
>
> Sam Goldstein
>
> Dan Wiener
>
> Alicia Mattson
>
> Tim Hagan
>
> Scott Lieberman
>
>
>
> *New Orleans*
>
> Arvin Vohra
> Doug Craig (voted in email instead of poll)
>
>
>
> *Atlantic City*
> Josh Katz
>
> *Bellevue*
> Roland Rimers
>
> *Have not heard from*
>
> Bill Redpath
> Ron Windeler
>
> Ed Marsh
>
> Rich Tomasso
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks, Doug.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 12:21 PM, <doug at vikingmetals.com> wrote:
>
> New Orleans
> Doug
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Voting
> From: Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com>
> Date: Dec 31, 2015 1:07 PM
> To: "Bill Redpath" <william.redpath at lp.org>,"Doug Craig" <
> doug.craig at lp.org>,"Ed Marsh" <ed.marsh at lp.org>,"Scott Spencer" <
> scott.spencer at lp.org>,"Rich Tomasso" <rich.tomasso at lp.org>,
> ron.windeler at lp.org
> CC:
>
> Hey Guys.
>
> While I'm certain this should have been done 6 weeks ago, it just wasn't
> and so I'm trying to at least say that everyone on the board had their say.
>
> Out of the following: Atlantic City, Bellevue, New Orleans, Oklahoma City,
> and Phoenix
>
> Can you let me know your single preference.  We have 20 other votes
> tabulated and I'd love to put this to rest on the boards end so that staff
> has a clear direction.
>
> You're welcome to text me at 512-773-3968
>
> Thanks much.
> Kevin Ludlow
>
> PS: Apologies to Mr. Redpath as I do believe you had expressed OKC earlier
> in the thread.  I just didn't want to assume it in case I misread
> something.
>
> --
> ========================================================
> Kevin Ludlow
> 512-773-3968
> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 11:58 AM, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 12:00PM CST.  Only 6 people have not cast a vote.
>
> *Oklahoma City*
>
> Gary Johnson
>
> Marc Feldman
>
> Brett Bittner
>
> Nick Sarwark
>
> Vicki Kirkland (originally voted New Orleans)
>
> Guy McLendon (originally voted New Orleans)
>
> Wes Benedict
> Norm Olsen (voted via email instead of the poll)
> Daniel Hayes (voted in email instead of the poll)
>
> Jim Lark
> Sean O'Toole
>
>
>
> *Phoenix*
>
> Kevin Ludlow
>
> Sam Goldstein
>
> Dan Wiener
>
> Alicia Mattson
>
> Tim Hagan
>
> Scott Lieberman
>
>
>
> *New Orleans*
>
> Arvin Vohra
>
>
>
> *Atlantic City*
> Josh Katz
>
> *Bellevue*
> Roland Rimers
>
> *Have not heard from*
>
> Bill Redpath
> Doug Craig
> Ron Windeler
>
> Ed Marsh
>
> Scott Spencer
>
> Rich Tomasso
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 11:35 AM, Sean O'Toole <sean at kingfieldcapital.com>
> wrote:
>
> I've not weighed in on locations as I will be returning from an extended
> stay in India at roughly the same time as the meeting. If I were to
> attend, I would prefer OK City as it is close to home.
>
> Sean O'Toole
> sean at kingfieldcapital.com
> (816) 739-2737 <%28816%29%20739-2737>
>
>    “It is the job of economists to point out trade-offs; it is the job of
> politicians and planners to deny that trade-offs exist.”
>         -William Easterly, 2006
> On 31 Dec 2015, at 11:29, Kevin Ludlow wrote:
>
> Three more trickled in over the night.  There are now only 7 people who
> have not weighed in (though to be fair, Mr. Redpath had been previously
> clear about supporting OKC; I just didn't feel it was fair to assign him
> that since this was a new poll).
>
> And yes, I would assume OKC is a bit more expensive than Phoenix.  It's
> not
> a major hub by any stretch.
>
> *Oklahoma City*
> Gary Johnson
> Marc Feldman
> Brett Bittner
> Nick Sarwark
> Vicki Kirkland (originally voted New Orleans)
> Guy McLendon (originally voted New Orleans)
> Wes Benedict
> Norm Olsen (voted via email instead of the poll)
> Daniel Hayes (voted in email instead of the poll)
> Jim Lark
>
> *Phoenix*
> Kevin Ludlow
> Sam Goldstein
> Dan Wiener
> Alicia Mattson
> Tim Hagan
> Scott Lieberman
>
> *New Orleans*
> Arvin Vohra
>
> *Atlantic City*
> Josh Katz
>
> *Bellevue*
> Roland Rimers
>
> *Have not heard from*
> Bill Redpath
> Doug Craig
> Ron Windeler
> Ed Marsh
> Scott Spencer
> Sean O'Toole
> Rich Tomasso
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 9:34 AM, Scott L. <scott73 at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Mr Riemers:
>
>
>
> I just did a quick check on Southwest Airlines.
>
>
>
> Fares for Feb 19 and 21 from Minneapolis to Oklahoma City are as little
> as $280 ROUND TRIP for a 1pm arrival on Friday,
>
> and a 6pm departure on Sunday.
>
>
>
> I see that Grand Forks to Minneapolis via air is $740 round trip on Delta,
> but I assume you can drive from your home to Minneapolis.
>
>
> Scott Lieberman
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Roland Riemers
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 31, 2015 7:12 AM
> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] February LNC Meeting
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I have not looked at the prices for the other cities,  but February prices
> for Grand Forks to Oklahoma City runs about $1,200.   Connections are not
> too bad.  At that price I would probably do the 10 hour drive.
>
>
>
> I still think we just need to find a nice central location that is
> interesting to go to,  has the services we want,  has cheap air fares,  and
> just stick with that for all future conventions,  and then keep the LNC
> meetings in DC to keep the staff time and costs down.
>
>
>
> Roland Riemers ND
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>
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