[Lnc-business] February LNC Meeting

Wed Jan 6 08:42:27 EST 2016

I understand the need to get the site for our February Meeting settled, since almost all of us will need to purchase airline tickets.

However, since LPHQ staff is currently in possession of bids that they solicited from Helms-Briscoe only last week, I request that we hold off on any polls until LPHQ staff posts those bids to this e-mail list.

   Scott Lieberman

  _____  

From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of Sam Goldstein
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2016 5:36 AM
To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
Cc: lnc-business
Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] February LNC Meeting

I would like a quick poll between the two cities since my preference is still Phoenix so we can view the two potential 

convention hotels.  Per Dr. Lark's remarks above, I see no reason to have a meeting at OKC.

Sam Goldstein

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On Wed, Jan 6, 2016 at 7:58 AM, Scott L. <scott73 at earthlink.net> wrote:

If the Chair thinks a photo op is necessary when the Oklahoma signatures are presented to the Oklahoma Secretary of State’s office, I have no problem whatsoever with him using his discretionary funds to fly from Phoenix to OKC to be present at that event.

However, since the Chair specifically mentions Friday or Monday, it is pretty obvious that for a majority of the LNC to be present at such a press conference, they need to fly to Oklahoma on Thursday, or leave on Monday.  That means spending the money for an additional night at the hotel, plus missing a day of work.

   Scott Lieberman

  _____  

From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of Nicholas Sarwark
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 8:37 PM
To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] February LNC Meeting

We have received bids from convention hotels in Bellevue, Phoenix, New Orleans, and Atlantic City.  Based on the poll Mr. Ludlow organized, I'm leaning toward planning the meeting for Oklahoma City.

Robert is checking on final numbers on the bids that came in today, and should have those back by tomorrow.  All of the other cities are more expensive than Oklahoma City, but I think we already knew that.

If you feel we should have another poll between Phoenix and Oklahoma City, please say so.  If I don't hear a strong objection or request for another poll in the next day or so, I intend to ask Mr. Benedict to go forward with planning the next meeting in Oklahoma City and 

coordinating with the Oklahoma Libertarian Party for a press conference on the Friday prior or Monday after the meeting.

  Nick

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On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 4:32 PM, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com> wrote:

Ms. Kirkland is right.  I completely missed Mr. Marsh's response.  So sorry, Ed and thanks, Vicki.  That leaves Mr. Tomasso and Mr. Windeler unaccounted for; I have a message out to both of them.  24 of 26 on our LNC list have weighed in.

Oklahoma City

Gary Johnson

Marc Feldman

Nick Sarwark

Vicki Kirkland (originally voted New Orleans)

Guy McLendon (originally voted New Orleans)

Wes Benedict
Norm Olsen (voted via email instead of the poll)
Daniel Hayes (voted in email instead of the poll)

Jim Lark
Sean O'Toole (voted in email instead of poll)
Scott Spencer
Bill Redpath

Phoenix

Kevin Ludlow

Sam Goldstein

Dan Wiener

Alicia Mattson

Tim Hagan

Scott Lieberman
Brett Bittner (originally voted Oklahoma City)

New Orleans

Arvin Vohra
Doug Craig (voted in email instead of poll)

Atlantic City
Josh Katz

Ed Marsh

Bellevue
Roland Rimers

Have not heard from

Ron Windeler

Rich Tomasso

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 5:06 PM, Vicki Kirkland <vickilp12 at gmail.com> wrote:

Ed Marsh voted for Atlantic City.

Vicki Kirkland

Region 2 Rep

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On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 5:53 PM, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com> wrote:

I texted with Mr. Redpath and he did in fact select OKC.  I left a text message for Mr. Tomasso, and voice messages for Mr. Marsh and Mr. Windeler.  They are the 3 outstanding voices.  I've reflected the tally below.

> Count the emails going back 2 months on this topic Maybe next term delegate the decision to the chair?

Like many people on this board, the chair is a family man.  I am not.  I have more time.  I fail to see why it matters who accomplishes a goal we all agreed would be accomplished at our last meeting.  Furthermore, we spent 2 months and got a mere 6 voices to weigh in.  We just had 23 different voices speak up in less than 2 days.  I'll let my process stand for itself. 

>Kevin, what would big business people say?

They wouldn't say anything.  They would have done their job 4 weeks ago and been through a dozen other items since. 

As a final response, I want to point out that I don't care about the politics of this and I likely never will.  I want to get stuff done.  I did what I felt it would take to get stuff done.  And in the matter of getting the board to participate, I got that stuff done.  I'm not challenging anybody, I just don't want to waste my precious hours on futility.

Oklahoma City

Gary Johnson

Marc Feldman

Nick Sarwark

Vicki Kirkland (originally voted New Orleans)

Guy McLendon (originally voted New Orleans)

Wes Benedict
Norm Olsen (voted via email instead of the poll)
Daniel Hayes (voted in email instead of the poll)

Jim Lark
Sean O'Toole (voted in email instead of poll)
Scott Spencer
Bill Redpath

Phoenix

Kevin Ludlow

Sam Goldstein

Dan Wiener

Alicia Mattson

Tim Hagan

Scott Lieberman
Brett Bittner (originally voted Oklahoma City)

New Orleans

Arvin Vohra
Doug Craig (voted in email instead of poll)

Atlantic City
Josh Katz

Bellevue
Roland Rimers

Have not heard from

Ron Windeler

Ed Marsh

Rich Tomasso

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Wes Benedict <wes.benedict at lp.org> wrote:

Count the emails going back 2 months on this topic. Maybe next term delegate the decision to the chair? 

Kevin, what would big business people say? (Not counting walmart or Berkshire Hathaway-those guys are cheap. )

Can I change my vote to half for OKC and half for New Orleans? 

I'm craving crawfish. And I'm worried basking in the Phoenix sun will make me want to move LPHQ to Phoenix. 

I don't worry about being tempted to move to OKC. Same for New Orleans for different reasons. Too much fun = too unhealthy to actually live there. 

Happy new year! 

p.s. On vacation so cut me slack on quality of humor and legitimate content. 

On Dec 31, 2015, at 5:00 PM, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com> wrote:

While I am again certain that Mr. Kraus is very well-intended here, he illustrates the point that I have been trying to make for weeks.  This is the kind of stamp-counting that the LP gets caught up in.

We know there is SOME cost to having meetings. While there does exist a subjective level whereby we would have to factor the cost of something, $2,500 needs to be seen as pennies.  We're talking about a meeting for 20-30 people for executive leadership of the party.  I believe our annual budget is about $1.4m?

$2,500 is 0.18% of $1.4m.  I realize that it might seem like a lot of money to some people, but in ANY business examination of the costs we're working with, it's pennies on the dollar.  I don't mean to sound insensitive there, but it's the reality of it.  If the body needs to consume an addition 0.18% of its resources to ensure the party is best represented, even if it has to do this 4 times per year, it doesn't make a dent in our budget.

There are plenty of very wealthy, high-profile Libertarians around the country.  I am certain any of them would agree with my analysis here.  This is not an issue of frugality, but rather inexperience with real-world business.  I promise I say that lovingly, but we need to address is very seriously.

-Kevin Ludlow

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 3:44 PM, Robert Kraus <robert.kraus at lp.org> wrote:

Just to clarify – I was not talking about what was cheaper for YOU ALL – but what is likely to be the least expensive option for the PARTY AND OUR DONORS. At time a/v and wifi alone can run $1500 plus an additional $500 a day (or more) for cost of the meeting room. That’s likely to be $2500 in savings for the PARTY and our donors if you all decide on OKC. In terms of room savings – cost of travel – that is of course a factor too because our donors pay for staff to go to these meetings. 

Of course the least expensive option FOR THE PARTY (and our donors) is almost always to hold meeting sin DC near the office. 

Happy New Year!

Robert

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From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Ludlow
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 4:39 PM

To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] February LNC Meeting

While I appreciate what Mr. Kraus is saying, I will defer back to my lengthy email from a week ago and echo exactly what Dr. Lieberman just wrote.

I was intentionally meaning for the body to make a decision WITHOUT factoring cost.  We are the very top leadership of the Libertarian Party.  It is an absurdity to think we would skirt what is ultimately best for the party to save ourselves some money.  While I am intent upon selecting a location so that at least we can save as much money as possible with advanced planning, that is a stark difference from selecting a location specifically because it would save us money.

If I had the telephone numbers of the remaining 4 members who have not voted I would call them right now.  If you have their number I would encourage YOU to call them.  If somebody would like to send me those I will in fact do so.  Either way, I would hope that our body selects the location based upon their analysis of what is most important for the PARTY, not for their own wallet.  Factor the 2018 convention.  Factor the likeliness of selecting a location more suited for the delegation.  Factor the OKC ballot drive if you like.  But please don't factor it because it's cheapest for you.

Thank you for enduring my continued positions on this matter.

Kevin Ludlow

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 3:28 PM, Scott L. <scott73 at earthlink.net> wrote:

Remember – the LNC is supposed to be checking out potential Convention sites when we meet, at least when we have potential Convention sites to check out.

Do we really want to report to our constituents that instead of checking out potential 2018 Convention hotels we chose

Oklahoma City for a meeting because it might save LNC members a grand total of maybe $90 each?

I suggest we wait until Tuesday and see what Helms-Briscoe comes up with.

    Scott Lieberman

  _____  

From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of Robert Kraus
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 12:50 PM
To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] February LNC Meeting

Quick update:

I have OKC on hold until next week so the space is available. HB said they are working on finalizing details for one Phoenix location, Atlantic City and New Orleans. We will likely here back Mon or Tue.  So hopefully all the options will be available for final review early next week and a decision can be made. Once you all see the costs (and substancial savings vs HB) perhaps the votes will change. Right now the only firm expenses are OKC – the best deal shown below (also includes all of our usual a/v):

<image001.gif>

Mind you the sales manager is libertarian so perhaps that helped!

Happy New Year!

Robert

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From: Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] On Behalf Of Wes Benedict
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2015 3:32 PM
To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] February LNC Meeting

I was about to ask Robert to get a contract underway for OKC before he goes on vacation next week but  with Bittners change , it's too close to call. 

Bittner if you switch back it could expedite a final contract and decision by as much as a week. 

I'm fine either place. Any time. 

Robert, provide other commentary if you'd like. 

I'm on vacation this week and not following the details as closely as when on the clock. 

On Dec 31, 2015, at 2:02 PM, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com> wrote:

Sure thing.  Reflected in the tallies below.

Oklahoma City

Gary Johnson

Marc Feldman

Nick Sarwark

Vicki Kirkland (originally voted New Orleans)

Guy McLendon (originally voted New Orleans)

Wes Benedict
Norm Olsen (voted via email instead of the poll)
Daniel Hayes (voted in email instead of the poll)

Jim Lark
Sean O'Toole (voted in email instead of poll)
Scott Spencer

Phoenix

Kevin Ludlow

Sam Goldstein

Dan Wiener

Alicia Mattson

Tim Hagan

Scott Lieberman
Brett Bittner (originally voted Oklahoma City)

New Orleans

Arvin Vohra
Doug Craig (voted in email instead of poll)

Atlantic City
Josh Katz

Bellevue
Roland Rimers

Have not heard from

Bill Redpath
Ron Windeler

Ed Marsh

Rich Tomasso

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Brett Bittner <brett at brettbittner.com> wrote:

After further consideration, can my preference be changed to Phoenix? 

Brett Bittner 

**This message sent from my phone. Please excuse any typos.

On Dec 31, 2015 13:34, "Kevin Ludlow" <ludlow at gmail.com> wrote:

And now as of 12:30 CST there are only 4 votes outstanding.  If anybody could contact those 4 just to have said everyone weighed in, it would be nice to see us utilize technology.

Oklahoma City

Gary Johnson

Marc Feldman

Brett Bittner

Nick Sarwark

Vicki Kirkland (originally voted New Orleans)

Guy McLendon (originally voted New Orleans)

Wes Benedict
Norm Olsen (voted via email instead of the poll)
Daniel Hayes (voted in email instead of the poll)

Jim Lark
Sean O'Toole (voted in email instead of poll)
Scott Spencer

Phoenix

Kevin Ludlow

Sam Goldstein

Dan Wiener

Alicia Mattson

Tim Hagan

Scott Lieberman

New Orleans

Arvin Vohra
Doug Craig (voted in email instead of poll)

Atlantic City
Josh Katz

Bellevue
Roland Rimers

Have not heard from

Bill Redpath
Ron Windeler

Ed Marsh

Rich Tomasso

Thanks, Doug.

  <https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif> 

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 12:21 PM, <doug at vikingmetals.com> wrote:

New Orleans
Doug

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Voting
From: Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com>
Date: Dec 31, 2015 1:07 PM
To: "Bill Redpath" <william.redpath at lp.org>,"Doug Craig" <doug.craig at lp.org>,"Ed Marsh" <ed.marsh at lp.org>,"Scott Spencer" <scott.spencer at lp.org>,"Rich Tomasso" <rich.tomasso at lp.org>,ron.windeler at lp.org
CC:

Hey Guys.

While I'm certain this should have been done 6 weeks ago, it just wasn't
and so I'm trying to at least say that everyone on the board had their say.

Out of the following: Atlantic City, Bellevue, New Orleans, Oklahoma City,
and Phoenix

Can you let me know your single preference.  We have 20 other votes
tabulated and I'd love to put this to rest on the boards end so that staff
has a clear direction.

You're welcome to text me at 512-773-3968

Thanks much.
Kevin Ludlow

PS: Apologies to Mr. Redpath as I do believe you had expressed OKC earlier
in the thread.  I just didn't want to assume it in case I misread something.

--
========================================================
Kevin Ludlow
512-773-3968
http://www.kevinludlow.com

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 11:58 AM, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com> wrote:

12:00PM CST.  Only 6 people have not cast a vote.

Oklahoma City

Gary Johnson

Marc Feldman

Brett Bittner

Nick Sarwark

Vicki Kirkland (originally voted New Orleans)

Guy McLendon (originally voted New Orleans)

Wes Benedict
Norm Olsen (voted via email instead of the poll)
Daniel Hayes (voted in email instead of the poll)

Jim Lark
Sean O'Toole

Phoenix

Kevin Ludlow

Sam Goldstein

Dan Wiener

Alicia Mattson

Tim Hagan

Scott Lieberman

New Orleans

Arvin Vohra

Atlantic City
Josh Katz

Bellevue
Roland Rimers

Have not heard from

Bill Redpath
Doug Craig
Ron Windeler

Ed Marsh

Scott Spencer

Rich Tomasso

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 11:35 AM, Sean O'Toole <sean at kingfieldcapital.com> wrote:

I've not weighed in on locations as I will be returning from an extended stay in India at roughly the same time as the meeting. If I were to attend, I would prefer OK City as it is close to home.

Sean O'Toole
sean at kingfieldcapital.com
(816) <tel:%28816%29%20739-2737>  739-2737

   “It is the job of economists to point out trade-offs; it is the job of politicians and planners to deny that trade-offs exist.”
        -William Easterly, 2006
On 31 Dec 2015, at 11:29, Kevin Ludlow wrote:

Three more trickled in over the night.  There are now only 7 people who
have not weighed in (though to be fair, Mr. Redpath had been previously
clear about supporting OKC; I just didn't feel it was fair to assign him
that since this was a new poll).

And yes, I would assume OKC is a bit more expensive than Phoenix.  It's not
a major hub by any stretch.

*Oklahoma City*
Gary Johnson
Marc Feldman
Brett Bittner
Nick Sarwark
Vicki Kirkland (originally voted New Orleans)
Guy McLendon (originally voted New Orleans)
Wes Benedict
Norm Olsen (voted via email instead of the poll)
Daniel Hayes (voted in email instead of the poll)
Jim Lark

*Phoenix*
Kevin Ludlow
Sam Goldstein
Dan Wiener
Alicia Mattson
Tim Hagan
Scott Lieberman

*New Orleans*
Arvin Vohra

*Atlantic City*
Josh Katz

*Bellevue*
Roland Rimers

*Have not heard from*
Bill Redpath
Doug Craig
Ron Windeler
Ed Marsh
Scott Spencer
Sean O'Toole
Rich Tomasso

On Thu, Dec 31, 2015 at 9:34 AM, Scott L. <scott73 at earthlink.net> wrote:

Mr Riemers:

I just did a quick check on Southwest Airlines.

Fares for Feb 19 and 21 from Minneapolis to Oklahoma City are as little
as $280 ROUND TRIP for a 1pm arrival on Friday,

and a 6pm departure on Sunday.

I see that Grand Forks to Minneapolis via air is $740 round trip on Delta,
but I assume you can drive from your home to Minneapolis.

Scott Lieberman

------------------------------

*From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On Behalf
Of *Roland Riemers
*Sent:* Thursday, December 31, 2015 7:12 AM
*To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
*Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] February LNC Meeting

I have not looked at the prices for the other cities,  but February prices
for Grand Forks to Oklahoma City runs about $1,200.   Connections are not
too bad.  At that price I would probably do the 10 hour drive.

I still think we just need to find a nice central location that is
interesting to go to,  has the services we want,  has cheap air fares,  and
just stick with that for all future conventions,  and then keep the LNC
meetings in DC to keep the staff time and costs down.

Roland Riemers ND 

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