[Lnc-business] Judicial Committee

Thu Jun 2 10:54:54 EDT 2016

I think that would go a long way.  Believe it or not the "appearance" of
using scraps or even index cards was one of the biggest gripes I heard.

In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative
(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
Washington)

On Thursday, June 2, 2016, Wes Benedict <wes.benedict at lp.org> wrote:

> Staff can get pads printed in advance next time. They are reasonably
> inexpensive and may come to about 10 cents per sheet. We can make them look
> nice and official. A project for next year (working with the Secretary).
> Can do different colors for each election or at least put a different title
> at the top.
>
> Wes Benedict, Executive Director
> Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
> 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314
> (202) 333-0008 ext. 232, wes.benedict at lp.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','wes.benedict at lp.org');>facebook.com/libertarians @LPNational
> Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership
>
> On 6/2/2016 9:41 AM, Joshua Katz wrote:
>
> I see, didn't think of that. I agree, but wouldn't have purchased them
> prior to this convention, since we didn't know if we'd adopt the bylaw
> change to require balloted voting within delegations.  For the future, I
> think that would be good.
>
> Joshua A. Katz
> Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
>
> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:37 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','carynannharlos at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> Joshua, having pads of paper that are title with voting  etc and
>> pre-printed are an expense but are WAY more professional.   Yes things
>> would still need to be handwritten in but having a tablet with some
>> pre-printing on it lends gravitas and feels personal to the delegate.
>>
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Region 1 Representative
>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>> Washington)
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:32 AM, Joshua Katz <
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','planning4liberty at gmail.com');>
>> planning4liberty at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','planning4liberty at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> I favor approval voting for at-large and JC.  It is open to strategic
>>> voting - as are all methods of voting.  Delegation were provided with index
>>> cards; if a state decided to use torn up scraps of paper, that is their
>>> decision.  You might say an index card isn't professional either - well,
>>> it's more professional, and it just isn't practical to print up in the
>>> neighborhood of 1,000 ballots immediately after nominations.
>>>
>>> I agree that it would be far superior to use electronic voting.
>>>
>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>> Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com
>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','carynannharlos at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It wouldn't be the first time I was unusual, and this could be in part
>>>> because I am exposed to a lot of Frank Atwood and his advocacy of approval
>>>> voting.
>>>>
>>>> The "don't understand it" is our fault.  I think the "too easy to game
>>>> it" falls under the don't understand it part and the fact that most of the
>>>> delegates were voting on torn up scraps of paper that don't inspire
>>>> confidence in the system.  Whether it would make a difference or not is
>>>> another matter, but perception of professionalism goes a long way.  I
>>>> really do not understand how we don't have something better than that....
>>>> but that is another conversation.
>>>>
>>>> The ridiculous time to tabulate is true. And needs to be improved
>>>> through modernizing.  I know this has been soundly rejected by delegates
>>>> before, but geez louise we are dinosaurs in this.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, an issue for Bylaws to consider, and I don't envy them selling any
>>>> of it to the delegates.
>>>>
>>>> But yes, I do defend approval voting and ranked choice.  Both of them
>>>> are monstrously difficult to do manually, and trivially easy if we were
>>>> modernized.
>>>>
>>>> In Liberty,
>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>> Region 1 Representative
>>>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>>>> Washington)
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 7:11 AM, Ken Moellman <
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ken.moellman at lpky.org');>
>>>> ken.moellman at lpky.org
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ken.moellman at lpky.org');>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Everyone I've talked to about Approval Voting since the convention has
>>>>> been quite negative on it.  You're literally the first person to defend it,
>>>>> Caryn. :)
>>>>>
>>>>> Somewhere between the "don't understand it" and "too easy to game it",
>>>>> and compounded with "ridiculous time to tabulate", Approval Voting is not a
>>>>> good methodology.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd personally recommend using IRV for all non-presidential/vp votes.
>>>>> One round, and we can get on with it.  And the committee gets filled in
>>>>> appropriately. LPKY does this and it works like a champ.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's an issue for the Bylaws Committee to consider, anyway.
>>>>> ---
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2016-06-02 08:28, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Ken, I believe the voting technology and means we use are the problem,
>>>>> not approval voting itself.  I think most members would be positively
>>>>> riotous against the removal of approval voting, but the means by which we
>>>>> do it can certainly be improved.
>>>>>
>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>> Region 1 Representative
>>>>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>>>>> Washington)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 5:12 AM, Ken Moellman <
>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ken.moellman at lpky.org');>
>>>>> ken.moellman at lpky.org
>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ken.moellman at lpky.org');>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alicia,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I understand that you have a ridiculous amount of work to do.  As
>>>>>> long as it's on the agenda to get published, I think people will be fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd like to explore a secure mechanism to increase voting efficiency
>>>>>> - both the voting and the tallying.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd also like to see the death of Approval Voting.  Blech.
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>> Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>>>>> Ballot Access Committee
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2016-06-02 01:45, Alicia Mattson wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ken,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Our standard operating procedure is that alternates freely comment on
>>>>>> our email list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know your requests are well intended, but please keep in mind that
>>>>>> my post-convention to-do list is extremely long.  It includes, but is not
>>>>>> limited to:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    - producing minutes for 2 LNC meetings
>>>>>>    - producing minutes for an EC meeting
>>>>>>    - generating nomination certificates for SOS offices to place our
>>>>>>    presidential ticket on the ballot in states where we already have ballot
>>>>>>    access
>>>>>>    - updating the bylaws
>>>>>>    - updating the platform
>>>>>>    - generating various data sets and articles for LPNews, media
>>>>>>    inquiries, etc.
>>>>>>    - producing minutes for the convention which conducted quite a
>>>>>>    bit of business while I was tabulating election results, so I have my
>>>>>>    records, an assistant's records, and a pile of slips of paper that were
>>>>>>    submitted that contain some of those motions, and a bunch of other ideas
>>>>>>    for motions that were never made
>>>>>>    - my email inbox is full of lots of requests that I won't get to
>>>>>>    immediately
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When the convention minutes are produced, it will contain
>>>>>> state-by-state breakdowns of each of the elections.  That info will be
>>>>>> shared, but it just cannot be at the top of my priority list at the moment.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 1, 2016 at 7:47 PM, Ken Moellman <
>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ken.moellman at lpky.org');>
>>>>>> ken.moellman at lpky.org
>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ken.moellman at lpky.org');>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have had 2 of the 4 chairs in Region 3 ask about seeing state
>>>>>>> totals and possibly even having the state ballots scanned in for Treasurer,
>>>>>>> At-Large, and Judicial Committee, since these were skipped over due to time
>>>>>>> constraints and thus there was no ability to contest any results.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't know if it's proper for me to speak on this list as an
>>>>>>> Alternate. I reached out to Brett but he was busy today.  And since the
>>>>>>> issue came up, I thought I'd mention it, since it's topical.
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ken Moellman
>>>>>>> Libertarian Party of Kentucky
>>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ken.moellman at lpky.org');>
>>>>>>> ken.moellman at lpky.org
>>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ken.moellman at lpky.org');>
>>>>>>> <http://www.lpky.org/>http://www.lpky.org/
>>>>>>> (859) OK-BE-LPK
>>>>>>> (859) 652-3575
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2016-06-01 21:24, Sam Goldstein wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Many members are asking about the JC results.  Can someone please
>>>>>>> post them here for distribution?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>> Member at Large
>>>>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>>>>> 317-850-0726 Phone
>>>>>>> 317-582-1773 Fax
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business at hq.lp.org');>
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business at hq.lp.org');>
>>>>>>> <http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org>
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business at hq.lp.org');>
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business at hq.lp.org');>
>>>>>>> <http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org>
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business at hq.lp.org');>
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business at hq.lp.org');>
>>>>>> <http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org>
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>> Caryn Ann
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business at hq.lp.org');>
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business at hq.lp.org');>
>>>>> <http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org>
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> In Liberty,
>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>> Region 1 Representative
>>>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>>>> Washington)
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business at hq.lp.org');>
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business at hq.lp.org');>
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Region 1 Representative
>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>> Washington)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business at hq.lp.org');>
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing listLnc-business at hq.lp.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business at hq.lp.org');>http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>
>

-- 
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative
(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
Washington)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc-business/attachments/20160602/d0827e5a/attachment-0002.html>