[Lnc-business] Fw: Re: [GrassrootsLibertarians] Re: [lpradicals] Re: [Lnc-votes] Fwd: Remaining Members of Judicial Committee Fill Vacancies

Caryn Ann Harlos carynannharlos at gmail.com
Tue Jun 7 18:22:47 EDT 2016 

Larger states would still have a greater share no matter what.  It seems
like based on the same way delegates are allocated would be fair with
regions being able to combine those votes.  States that do not join a
region would have to individually.

I don't think this is the answer though.  We need to be sure we plan enough
time to do the party business and we need a more efficient way to do
votes.  I personally think Party business should come first.  In election
years the delegates will make sure it gets done because they want to get to
the main event.

If party business takes a certain amount of time, we need that time.

The only Bylaws issues I see here are whether or not to keep approval
voting.  And the issue of what happens if the full number of JC is not
elected at convention.  And the problems with approval voting I do not
think are problems with AV but with the outmoded time-consuming way we do
it.

On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 4:07 PM, Sam Goldstein <goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Correct in part, Caryn.  Delegates are also assigned based on POTUS vote.
>
> I'm just batting around ideas of how to avoid a fiasco like this year
> again, at this time
> I'm wide open to suggestions for the next Bylaws committee to consider.
>
> Sam
>
> Sam Goldstein
> Libertarian National Committee
> Member at Large
> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
> Indianapolis IN 46260
> 317-850-0726 Phone
> 317-582-1773 Fax
>
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 6:01 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Top states *already* get more weight by virture of having more delegate
>> spots.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 3:56 PM, Whitney Bilyeu <whitneycb76 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Isn't that the same as each region having 1 vote?  I assume all 7 votes
>>> would be cast for the same candidate...?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 4:48 PM, Sam Goldstein <
>>> goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> No, that would give very heavy weight to the top states and smaller
>>>> states would have no say
>>>> in the matter.  Perhaps voting by Region with each region getting 7
>>>> votes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>> Member at Large
>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>> 317-850-0726 Phone
>>>> 317-582-1773 Fax
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> By national membership allocations?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Sam Goldstein <
>>>>> goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ken,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How would you implement having state delegations elect JC members?
>>>>>> One state one vote?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One state seven votes?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>> Member at Large
>>>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>>>> 317-850-0726 Phone
>>>>>> 317-582-1773 Fax
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 4:10 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A bylaw change will be necessary, and I hope that the Bylaws
>>>>>>> Committee addresses this in 2018. We'll also need a motion to suspend the
>>>>>>> rules to make it take effect immediately rather than at the 2020
>>>>>>> convention. My preferred solution is to dump Approval Voting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Further, I'd like to submit for consideration the idea of having the
>>>>>>> JC elected by state delegations rather than by individual delegates.  This
>>>>>>> would create a scenario where different interests are being protected than
>>>>>>> those already protected by the popularly-elected LNC.  I'm open to other
>>>>>>> ideas, but I make this suggestion because I am a strong believer in making
>>>>>>> sure that various levels are representing different interests. (Just like
>>>>>>> the Region Reps also represent different interests than the At-Large Reps).
>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>>>>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>>>>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2016-06-06 13:42, sfdreamer at earthlink.net wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Forwarding comments from a member on this issue...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Love & Liberty,
>>>>>>>                           ((( starchild )))
>>>>>>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>>                   RealReform at earthlink.net
>>>>>>>                          (415) 625-FREE
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> P.S. - On an unrelated matter, another member tells me that he is
>>>>>>> having difficulty reading my emails to the LNC list, that they are coming
>>>>>>> through as strange attachments. Is anyone else subscribed on a read-only
>>>>>>> basis having this trouble with my emails or anyone else's? If you are,
>>>>>>> please let me know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Forwarded Message-----
>>>>>>> From: "Carol Moore 4liberty at carolmoore.net
>>>>>>> [GrassrootsLibertarians]"
>>>>>>> Sent: Jun 3, 2016 3:27 PM
>>>>>>> To: GrassrootsLibertarians at yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>> Cc: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [GrassrootsLibertarians] Re: [lpradicals] Re:
>>>>>>> [Lnc-votes] [Lnc-business] Fwd: Remaining Members of Judicial Committee
>>>>>>> Fill Vacancies
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Obviously the bylaws need changing.  If there should be some
>>>>>>> important decision where the judiciary committee must make an important
>>>>>>> decision, any member might challenge it on the basis of its being vs. the
>>>>>>> bylaws. Including a person who might need a judiciary committee spanking.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I feel like doing a straw poll of those names and seeing if there is
>>>>>>> someone most people actively disapprove of.   I know I think one is great
>>>>>>> and another is questionable. So wonder what others would think.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It might also help to encourage LNC to have a deadline for running
>>>>>>> for office. Not a deadline for being nominated, but a deadline for being
>>>>>>> listed in a handout sheet, preferably something that goes in the delegate
>>>>>>> package, with a short bio. This would make candidates think more seriously
>>>>>>> about running in advance and give delegates who chose to study the list a
>>>>>>> chance to look at qualifications. It wouldn't just be based on a chance
>>>>>>> meeting with a prospective member, a recommendation from a seat mate, or
>>>>>>> what name sounded coolest to you - or whatever.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 6/3/2016 2:37 PM, Letitia Pepper letitiapepper at yahoo.com
>>>>>>> [GrassrootsLibertarians] wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I support Starchild's analysis of this problem.  All efforts must be
>>>>>>> made to prevent disenfranchising members.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 3, 2016, at 8:20 AM, sfdreamer at earthlink.net [lpradicals] <
>>>>>>> lpradicals at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This approach of committees filling their own vacancies without
>>>>>>> regard to convention delegates' preferences on the grounds that only a
>>>>>>> minority of candidates for those vacancies received the affirmative
>>>>>>> approval of a majority of delegates seems ill-advised to me. Failing to
>>>>>>> receive such approval is clearly not the same thing as receiving the
>>>>>>> delegates' active *disapproval*. Nor is there any guarantee that
>>>>>>> subsequently appointed members of a committee would have received majority
>>>>>>> approval at convention. It is possible that one or more individuals
>>>>>>> appointed in this case would have received a lower approval percentage than
>>>>>>> the four next highest vote-getters at the convention had they chosen to
>>>>>>> actively run for seats on the Judicial Committee.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *We seem to have a situation in which a majority of the candidates
>>>>>>> for office receiving the most votes at convention are routinely not meeting
>>>>>>> the 50% threshold required by "approval voting". Thus if the method
>>>>>>> employed by the remaining members of the Judicial Committee in proposing to
>>>>>>> fill the vacancies were to become standard practice, the result could be a
>>>>>>> significant disenfranchisement our membership*. it raises the
>>>>>>> prospect that an individual could have a better chance of getting onto a
>>>>>>> committee by privately expressing his or her interest in serving to the
>>>>>>> existing committee members, than by actually running for the position and
>>>>>>> seeking the approval of convention delegates. I do not think LP members
>>>>>>> anticipated or desired such an outcome when they were convinced to adopt
>>>>>>> approval voting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I therefore urge the members of the Judicial Committee to reconsider
>>>>>>> this decision, and appoint the next four highest vote-getters to the four
>>>>>>> seats in question, as the LNC did in filling the majority of its vacancies
>>>>>>> which were similarly unfilled as a result of m Indeed ost of the delegates'
>>>>>>> choices not receiving more than 50% of the vote. My recommendation is not
>>>>>>> based on any political favoritism toward those individuals – with whose
>>>>>>> identities I am in any case not acquainted – or any animus toward Michael
>>>>>>> Badnarik, John Buttrick, Bill Hall, and Rob Latham, all of whom strike me
>>>>>>> as sound and well-qualified choices. I write strictly from the point of
>>>>>>> view of upholding bottom-up, grassroots governance in the Libertarian Party.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Love & Liberty,
>>>>>>>                             ((( starchild )))
>>>>>>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>>                           (415) 625-FREE
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: lnc-votes at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Jun 3, 2016 8:41 AM
>>>>>>> To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Lnc-votes] [Lnc-business] Fwd: Remaining Members of
>>>>>>> Judicial Committee Fill Vacancies
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have been asked by a member in my region to inquire:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can someone verify eligibility for the three elected and 4 appointed
>>>>>>> members? Specifically, can the " All Judicial Committee members shall have
>>>>>>> been Party members at least four years at the time of their selection."
>>>>>>> portion?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brett C. Bittner
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> brett at brettbittner.com
>>>>>>> 404.492.6524
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much
>>>>>>> liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." -- Thomas Jefferson
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 12:20 AM, Alicia Mattson <secretary at lp.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Forwarding a message by request.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>>>> From: Gary Johnson <sedition at aol.com>
>>>>>>>> Date: Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:03 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Remaining Members of Judicial Committee Fill Vacancies
>>>>>>>> To: secretary at lp.org, AliciaDearn at bellatrixlaw.com,
>>>>>>>> chuck at moulton.org, scholar at constitutionpreservation.org,
>>>>>>>> jabuttrick at gmail.com, whall at wnj.com, rob at roblatham.pro
>>>>>>>> Cc: Rebecca Sink-Burris <rebecca.sinkburris at gmail.com>, Roger
>>>>>>>> Roots <rogerroots at msn.com>, Michael Dixon <
>>>>>>>> dixonconsultinginc at gmail.com>, M Carling <mcarling at gmail.com>,
>>>>>>>> John Bowers <bojo3191 at aol.com>, Michael Kielsky <
>>>>>>>> Michael at krazlaw.com>, mikeljane <mikeljane at gmail.com>, steven r
>>>>>>>> Linnabary <linnabary51 at gmail.com>, Robert Jim Fulner <
>>>>>>>> jim.fulner at member.fsf.org>, "Christopher R. Maden" <crism at maden.org>,
>>>>>>>> Jeffrey Mortenson <jwmort at yahoo.com>, Thomas Robert Stevens <
>>>>>>>> drtomstevens at aol.com>, Tom Lippman <tnlippman at juno.com>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Dear Alicia Mattson,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please post this message online on the LNC Business list:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Judicial Committee is supposed to have seven members. Only
>>>>>>>> three received a majority in the approval voting process at the 2016
>>>>>>>> national convention.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The three members of the Judicial Committee elected by the
>>>>>>>> delegates, Alicia Dearn, Gary Johnson of Texas, and Chuck Moulton, have
>>>>>>>> communicated by email.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have ruled unanimously that, as the "remaining members" of the
>>>>>>>> committee, we have the authority to fill vacancies, although we are less
>>>>>>>> than the quorum of five specified in the bylaws.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have decided informally to reject, by 1 to 2, the idea of
>>>>>>>> filling the vacancies with the next four vote getters.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have decided unanimously to fill the vacancies with four
>>>>>>>> individuals who were not nominated at the convention and therefore were not
>>>>>>>> "disapproved" of by a majority of the delegates in the approval voting
>>>>>>>> process.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have voted unanimously by email ballot to fill the vacancies
>>>>>>>> with Michael Badnarik, John Buttrick, Bill Hall, and Rob Latham.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alicia Dearn
>>>>>>>> Gary Johnson
>>>>>>>> Chuck Moulton
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Carol Moore in DChttp://carolmoore.net/http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/http://youtube.com/user/carolmoorehttp://youtube.com/user/carolmooresongshttp://secession.nethttp://stopthewarnow.nethttp://whatwouldgandhido.net
>>>>>>> twitter - carolmoore1776
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NOTICE: It is the right of the people
>>>>>>> to alter or abolish government.
>>>>>>> US Declaration of Independence, 1776
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> __._,_.___
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>> Posted by: Carol Moore <4liberty at carolmoore.net>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>> Region 1 Representative
>>>>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>>>>> Washington)
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> In Liberty,
>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>> Region 1 Representative
>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>> Washington)
>>
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-- 
In Liberty,
Caryn Ann Harlos
Region 1 Representative
(Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
Washington)
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