[Lnc-business] Fw: Re: [GrassrootsLibertarians] Re: [lpradicals] Re: [Lnc-votes] Fwd: Remaining Members of Judicial Committee Fill Vacancies
Sam Goldstein
goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com
Tue Jun 7 19:18:50 EDT 2016
Indeed and I will fully support your desire to serve on the 2018 Bylaws
Committee when it come time to
populate it!
Sam
Sam Goldstein
Libertarian National Committee
Member at Large
8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
Indianapolis IN 46260
317-850-0726 Phone
317-582-1773 Fax
On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 6:22 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Larger states would still have a greater share no matter what. It seems
> like based on the same way delegates are allocated would be fair with
> regions being able to combine those votes. States that do not join a
> region would have to individually.
>
> I don't think this is the answer though. We need to be sure we plan
> enough time to do the party business and we need a more efficient way to do
> votes. I personally think Party business should come first. In election
> years the delegates will make sure it gets done because they want to get to
> the main event.
>
> If party business takes a certain amount of time, we need that time.
>
> The only Bylaws issues I see here are whether or not to keep approval
> voting. And the issue of what happens if the full number of JC is not
> elected at convention. And the problems with approval voting I do not
> think are problems with AV but with the outmoded time-consuming way we do
> it.
>
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 4:07 PM, Sam Goldstein <goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Correct in part, Caryn. Delegates are also assigned based on POTUS vote.
>>
>> I'm just batting around ideas of how to avoid a fiasco like this year
>> again, at this time
>> I'm wide open to suggestions for the next Bylaws committee to consider.
>>
>> Sam
>>
>> Sam Goldstein
>> Libertarian National Committee
>> Member at Large
>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>> 317-850-0726 Phone
>> 317-582-1773 Fax
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 6:01 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Top states *already* get more weight by virture of having more delegate
>>> spots.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 3:56 PM, Whitney Bilyeu <whitneycb76 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Isn't that the same as each region having 1 vote? I assume all 7 votes
>>>> would be cast for the same candidate...?
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 4:48 PM, Sam Goldstein <
>>>> goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> No, that would give very heavy weight to the top states and smaller
>>>>> states would have no say
>>>>> in the matter. Perhaps voting by Region with each region getting 7
>>>>> votes.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>> Member at Large
>>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>>> 317-850-0726 Phone
>>>>> 317-582-1773 Fax
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 5:39 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> By national membership allocations?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 3:37 PM, Sam Goldstein <
>>>>>> goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ken,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How would you implement having state delegations elect JC members?
>>>>>>> One state one vote?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> One state seven votes?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>> Member at Large
>>>>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>>>>> 317-850-0726 Phone
>>>>>>> 317-582-1773 Fax
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 4:10 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A bylaw change will be necessary, and I hope that the Bylaws
>>>>>>>> Committee addresses this in 2018. We'll also need a motion to suspend the
>>>>>>>> rules to make it take effect immediately rather than at the 2020
>>>>>>>> convention. My preferred solution is to dump Approval Voting.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Further, I'd like to submit for consideration the idea of having
>>>>>>>> the JC elected by state delegations rather than by individual delegates.
>>>>>>>> This would create a scenario where different interests are being protected
>>>>>>>> than those already protected by the popularly-elected LNC. I'm open to
>>>>>>>> other ideas, but I make this suggestion because I am a strong believer in
>>>>>>>> making sure that various levels are representing different interests. (Just
>>>>>>>> like the Region Reps also represent different interests than the At-Large
>>>>>>>> Reps).
>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>>>>>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>>>>>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2016-06-06 13:42, sfdreamer at earthlink.net wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Forwarding comments from a member on this issue...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Love & Liberty,
>>>>>>>> ((( starchild )))
>>>>>>>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>>> RealReform at earthlink.net
>>>>>>>> (415) 625-FREE
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> P.S. - On an unrelated matter, another member tells me that he is
>>>>>>>> having difficulty reading my emails to the LNC list, that they are coming
>>>>>>>> through as strange attachments. Is anyone else subscribed on a read-only
>>>>>>>> basis having this trouble with my emails or anyone else's? If you are,
>>>>>>>> please let me know.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Forwarded Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: "Carol Moore 4liberty at carolmoore.net
>>>>>>>> [GrassrootsLibertarians]"
>>>>>>>> Sent: Jun 3, 2016 3:27 PM
>>>>>>>> To: GrassrootsLibertarians at yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>>> Cc: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [GrassrootsLibertarians] Re: [lpradicals] Re:
>>>>>>>> [Lnc-votes] [Lnc-business] Fwd: Remaining Members of Judicial Committee
>>>>>>>> Fill Vacancies
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Obviously the bylaws need changing. If there should be some
>>>>>>>> important decision where the judiciary committee must make an important
>>>>>>>> decision, any member might challenge it on the basis of its being vs. the
>>>>>>>> bylaws. Including a person who might need a judiciary committee spanking.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I feel like doing a straw poll of those names and seeing if there
>>>>>>>> is someone most people actively disapprove of. I know I think one is
>>>>>>>> great and another is questionable. So wonder what others would think.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It might also help to encourage LNC to have a deadline for running
>>>>>>>> for office. Not a deadline for being nominated, but a deadline for being
>>>>>>>> listed in a handout sheet, preferably something that goes in the delegate
>>>>>>>> package, with a short bio. This would make candidates think more seriously
>>>>>>>> about running in advance and give delegates who chose to study the list a
>>>>>>>> chance to look at qualifications. It wouldn't just be based on a chance
>>>>>>>> meeting with a prospective member, a recommendation from a seat mate, or
>>>>>>>> what name sounded coolest to you - or whatever.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 6/3/2016 2:37 PM, Letitia Pepper letitiapepper at yahoo.com
>>>>>>>> [GrassrootsLibertarians] wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I support Starchild's analysis of this problem. All efforts must
>>>>>>>> be made to prevent disenfranchising members.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 3, 2016, at 8:20 AM, sfdreamer at earthlink.net [lpradicals] <
>>>>>>>> lpradicals at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This approach of committees filling their own vacancies without
>>>>>>>> regard to convention delegates' preferences on the grounds that only a
>>>>>>>> minority of candidates for those vacancies received the affirmative
>>>>>>>> approval of a majority of delegates seems ill-advised to me. Failing to
>>>>>>>> receive such approval is clearly not the same thing as receiving the
>>>>>>>> delegates' active *disapproval*. Nor is there any guarantee that
>>>>>>>> subsequently appointed members of a committee would have received majority
>>>>>>>> approval at convention. It is possible that one or more individuals
>>>>>>>> appointed in this case would have received a lower approval percentage than
>>>>>>>> the four next highest vote-getters at the convention had they chosen to
>>>>>>>> actively run for seats on the Judicial Committee.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *We seem to have a situation in which a majority of the candidates
>>>>>>>> for office receiving the most votes at convention are routinely not meeting
>>>>>>>> the 50% threshold required by "approval voting". Thus if the method
>>>>>>>> employed by the remaining members of the Judicial Committee in proposing to
>>>>>>>> fill the vacancies were to become standard practice, the result could be a
>>>>>>>> significant disenfranchisement our membership*. it raises the
>>>>>>>> prospect that an individual could have a better chance of getting onto a
>>>>>>>> committee by privately expressing his or her interest in serving to the
>>>>>>>> existing committee members, than by actually running for the position and
>>>>>>>> seeking the approval of convention delegates. I do not think LP members
>>>>>>>> anticipated or desired such an outcome when they were convinced to adopt
>>>>>>>> approval voting.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I therefore urge the members of the Judicial Committee to
>>>>>>>> reconsider this decision, and appoint the next four highest vote-getters to
>>>>>>>> the four seats in question, as the LNC did in filling the majority of its
>>>>>>>> vacancies which were similarly unfilled as a result of m Indeed ost of the
>>>>>>>> delegates' choices not receiving more than 50% of the vote. My
>>>>>>>> recommendation is not based on any political favoritism toward those
>>>>>>>> individuals – with whose identities I am in any case not acquainted – or
>>>>>>>> any animus toward Michael Badnarik, John Buttrick, Bill Hall, and Rob
>>>>>>>> Latham, all of whom strike me as sound and well-qualified choices. I write
>>>>>>>> strictly from the point of view of upholding bottom-up, grassroots
>>>>>>>> governance in the Libertarian Party.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Love & Liberty,
>>>>>>>> ((( starchild )))
>>>>>>>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>>>> (415) 625-FREE
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: lnc-votes at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Jun 3, 2016 8:41 AM
>>>>>>>> To: lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Lnc-votes] [Lnc-business] Fwd: Remaining Members of
>>>>>>>> Judicial Committee Fill Vacancies
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have been asked by a member in my region to inquire:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can someone verify eligibility for the three elected and 4
>>>>>>>> appointed members? Specifically, can the " All Judicial Committee members
>>>>>>>> shall have been Party members at least four years at the time of their
>>>>>>>> selection." portion?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Brett C. Bittner
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> brett at brettbittner.com
>>>>>>>> 404.492.6524
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much
>>>>>>>> liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." -- Thomas Jefferson
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 12:20 AM, Alicia Mattson <secretary at lp.org>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Forwarding a message by request.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>>>>> From: Gary Johnson <sedition at aol.com>
>>>>>>>>> Date: Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 9:03 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Remaining Members of Judicial Committee Fill Vacancies
>>>>>>>>> To: secretary at lp.org, AliciaDearn at bellatrixlaw.com,
>>>>>>>>> chuck at moulton.org, scholar at constitutionpreservation.org,
>>>>>>>>> jabuttrick at gmail.com, whall at wnj.com, rob at roblatham.pro
>>>>>>>>> Cc: Rebecca Sink-Burris <rebecca.sinkburris at gmail.com>, Roger
>>>>>>>>> Roots <rogerroots at msn.com>, Michael Dixon <
>>>>>>>>> dixonconsultinginc at gmail.com>, M Carling <mcarling at gmail.com>,
>>>>>>>>> John Bowers <bojo3191 at aol.com>, Michael Kielsky <
>>>>>>>>> Michael at krazlaw.com>, mikeljane <mikeljane at gmail.com>, steven r
>>>>>>>>> Linnabary <linnabary51 at gmail.com>, Robert Jim Fulner <
>>>>>>>>> jim.fulner at member.fsf.org>, "Christopher R. Maden" <
>>>>>>>>> crism at maden.org>, Jeffrey Mortenson <jwmort at yahoo.com>, Thomas
>>>>>>>>> Robert Stevens <drtomstevens at aol.com>, Tom Lippman <
>>>>>>>>> tnlippman at juno.com>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Dear Alicia Mattson,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Please post this message online on the LNC Business list:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Judicial Committee is supposed to have seven members. Only
>>>>>>>>> three received a majority in the approval voting process at the 2016
>>>>>>>>> national convention.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The three members of the Judicial Committee elected by the
>>>>>>>>> delegates, Alicia Dearn, Gary Johnson of Texas, and Chuck Moulton, have
>>>>>>>>> communicated by email.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We have ruled unanimously that, as the "remaining members" of the
>>>>>>>>> committee, we have the authority to fill vacancies, although we are less
>>>>>>>>> than the quorum of five specified in the bylaws.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We have decided informally to reject, by 1 to 2, the idea of
>>>>>>>>> filling the vacancies with the next four vote getters.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We have decided unanimously to fill the vacancies with four
>>>>>>>>> individuals who were not nominated at the convention and therefore were not
>>>>>>>>> "disapproved" of by a majority of the delegates in the approval voting
>>>>>>>>> process.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We have voted unanimously by email ballot to fill the vacancies
>>>>>>>>> with Michael Badnarik, John Buttrick, Bill Hall, and Rob Latham.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Alicia Dearn
>>>>>>>>> Gary Johnson
>>>>>>>>> Chuck Moulton
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> !-->
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Carol Moore in DChttp://carolmoore.net/http://carolmoorereport.blogspot.com/http://youtube.com/user/carolmoorehttp://youtube.com/user/carolmooresongshttp://secession.nethttp://stopthewarnow.nethttp://whatwouldgandhido.net
>>>>>>>> twitter - carolmoore1776
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> NOTICE: It is the right of the people
>>>>>>>> to alter or abolish government.
>>>>>>>> US Declaration of Independence, 1776
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __._,_.___
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>> Posted by: Carol Moore <4liberty at carolmoore.net>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Reply via web post
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>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> In Liberty,
>>>>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>>>> Region 1 Representative
>>>>>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>>>>>> Washington)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> In Liberty,
>>> Caryn Ann Harlos
>>> Region 1 Representative
>>> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
>>> Washington)
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> In Liberty,
> Caryn Ann Harlos
> Region 1 Representative
> (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming,
> Washington)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>
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