[Lnc-business] Newbie question - Membership Report

Sat Aug 6 11:04:09 EDT 2016

So far, it's taken 18 emails to clarify the membership report to someone on
the committee who actively seeks out information. If it's taken that much
effort to explain it to a Party leader, how confusing is this to someone
considering joining the Party or who just joined?

Perhaps things should be simpler. Maybe we could consider why we continue
to use a 1980s membership model in 2016 (or 2014, when I began pointing
this out).

Thanks for reading my two cents,

Brett C. Bittner

Region 3 Representative
Libertarian National Committee

**This message sent from my phone. Please excuse any typos.

On Aug 6, 2016 10:55, "Daniel Hayes" <danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:

> If John signed the pledge and paid dues on 1/1/2015, then, at that point,
> their "Active Membership" and "Sustaining Membership" both expire on
> 1/1/2016.
>
> We start sending renewal letters and renewal emails before people's
> memberships expire.
>
> If John renews his dues on 11/1/2015 (2 months before his expiration
> date), then his "Active Membership" is extended to 1/1/2017 (per the policy
> manual), but his "Sustaining Membership" will expire 11/1/2016 (per the
> bylaws).
>
> The above kind of thing is one example of how the two sets of numbers can
> vary--sometimes records aren't 100% complete updated right when a report is
> run as well. And sometimes errors are made.
>
>
> Wes Benedict, Executive Director
> Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
> 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314(202) 333-0008 ext. 232, wes.benedict at lp.orgfacebook.com/libertarians @LPNational
> Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership
>
> On 8/6/2016 10:52 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>
> Wes, yes please!
>
> I am asking members and no one seems to understand this.
>
> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 8:50 AM, Wes Benedict <wes.benedict at lp.org> wrote:
>
>> Cary, do you want me to answer this question?
>>
>> Wes Benedict, Executive Director
>> Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
>> 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314(202) 333-0008 ext. 232, wes.benedict at lp.orgfacebook.com/libertarians @LPNational
>> Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership
>>
>> On 8/6/2016 10:37 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>
>> Well you couldn't have signed the Pledge in 1971 since it wasn't around
>> then ;)
>>
>> But I am still confused by your example.  Maybe here is the better
>> question to help me.
>>
>> What does one have to do to have "member benefits" that are not
>> co-extensive with BSM?  Because it says "active mems" have signed the
>> Pledge.
>>
>> Does this just mean a contribution under $25?
>>
>> How can you be an active pledge-signer member (for active mem) and not be
>> a BSM?  The only way I can see that is if one gave less than $25.
>>
>> *In Liberty,*
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
>> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 8:28 AM, Robert Kraus <robert.kraus at lp.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I amy have signed the NAP in 1971. Doesn’t matter when I signed the NAP
>>> or if I signed the NAP ( for my active membership benefits expire date).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But in this example the ONLY thing the bylaws care about is that I
>>> contributed $25 within the last year.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thus the last time I did this was $25 on 07/01/15 thus I am no longer a
>>> BSM as of 07/01/16.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Now on the “membership benefits side” – which the Policy Manual dictates
>>> – I get my “benefits” expire date updated by 12 months from my previous
>>> date. So if my previous expire date was 08/30/15 and I renewed early on
>>> 07/01/15 my new expire date is 08/30/16. Thus you can say my BSM ended on
>>> 07/01/16 yet my ?membership benefits” expire date ends on 08/30/16.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My BSM would not end on 08/30/16 simply because that would violate the
>>> bylaws since I had not given since 07/01/15.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Keep in mind it really doesn’t matter when your BSM “ends” except for
>>> counts for delegates 6 months pior to a convention or your status on the
>>> LNC or JC which requires you to be a BSM.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Live Free!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Robert*
>>>
>>>
>>> Robert S. Kraus - Dir of Operations
>>> Operations at LP.org
>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>> Ph: 202.333.0008 x 231
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Join today: https://www.lp.org/membership
>>>
>>> LP FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/libertarians
>>> size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
>>>
>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On Behalf
>>> Of *Caryn Ann Harlos
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 06, 2016 10:16 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Newbie question - Membership Report
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ahh okay (you messed up a date in there, I think you meant 7/1/16 in the
>>> example of BSM expiring).  Is that number even meaningful for membership
>>> stats?  It is really terribly confusing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It seems in most cases that the two dates would be concurrent.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So in your above example, you had "membership benefits" due to paying
>>> some money around 8/30/14 prior to agreeing with the NAP which was done on
>>> 7/1/15.  Because if you had agreed with the NAP and paid money on 8/30/14
>>> and renewed early on 7/1/15, your BSM membership would still go through
>>> 8/30/16, correct?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am I understanding this now?  If I am, I am going to write up a
>>> mini-article on this to explain it to others.  I cannot be the only one
>>> confounded by this, no one just wasn't obsessed enough to pursue an answer
>>> since the numbers were negligible.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>
>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
>>> - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>
>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>
>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 8:06 AM, Robert Kraus <robert.kraus at lp.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Sorry meant I would be a BSM until 07/01/2016 not 15.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On Behalf
>>> Of *Robert Kraus
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 06, 2016 10:05 AM
>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Newbie question - Membership Report
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Simple explanation: BSM (Sustaining Membership) is per the bylaws which
>>> basically says you are a sustaining member if you contribute a total of $25
>>> within a year and agree to the NAP
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Example – I agree with the NAP and paid $25 for anything on 07/01/2015
>>> thus I was a “BSM” until 07/01/2015 (I am no longer a “BSM” in this example)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The “Active” (doesn’t matter Mem or Sub) part is dictated by the policy
>>> manual and relates to “membership benefits” like LP News. For example I
>>> paid $25 on 07/01/15 to renew my “active membership” but my benefits did
>>> not expire until 08/30/15. In other words in this example I renewed early.
>>> According to our rules my “expire” date for “membership benefits” would be
>>> extended by one year. Thus my new “active membership expire date” is
>>> 08/30/16. So I am “active” until the end of this month even though I am no
>>> longer a BSM.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So if I come from the state of PR and am the only “active” member – my
>>> state will show zero (0) for BSM and one (1) for MEM.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Live Free!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Robert*
>>>
>>> Robert S. Kraus - Dir of Operations
>>> Operations at LP.org
>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>> Ph: 202.333.0008 x 231 <202.333.0008%20x%20231>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Join today: https://www.lp.org/membership
>>>
>>> LP FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/libertarians
>>>
>>> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
>>>
>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On Behalf
>>> Of *Caryn Ann Harlos
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 06, 2016 8:47 AM
>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Newbie question - Membership Report
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> First line should say on "page 2" of the report.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 6:46 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Joshua, let me explain.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There are five columns on page of the report.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1.  Total "MEM" - this is the total number of constituents in state that
>>> have signed the pledge - whether they have paid dues or not.  It includes
>>> inactive folks who are not reflected on this chart.
>>>
>>> 2.   Active "MEM"- Current Dues Payer or Lifetime Donor with a signed
>>> pledge
>>>
>>> 3.  Active "SUB" - Current due payer or lifetime donors who have not
>>> signed the Pledge
>>>
>>> 4.  Total Active - that is just adding numbers 2 and numbers 3.
>>>
>>> 5. Total BSM- By-Law Definition of "Sustaining Member" and number used
>>> for delegate count with a parenthetical comment of Art 5-3 that a
>>> Sustaining member is any Party member who has given at least $25 to the
>>> party in the prior twelve months, or who is a life member.  By that
>>> definition, a Pledge signer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What is the different between Numbers 2 and Number 5?  Dues payers?
>>> Check.  Lifetime donors?  Check.  Signed Pledge?  Check.  That is true for
>>> both of those categories, so what is the difference?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And the different between those numbers in the states is only a few
>>> people, and in some states (such as Hawaii, Nebraska, Rhode Island, South
>>> Carolina), they are exactly the same.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>
>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
>>> - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>
>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>
>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 6:04 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Active subs need not sign the pledge, I agree.  I don't see that this
>>> challenges what I said, that MEM don't pay dues and BSM do.
>>>
>>>
>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>
>>> Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 1:40 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I really suggest reading the categories in the membership report - that
>>> isn't the difference here.  There is a categories for non-pledgers -
>>> "active subs" - that doesn't answer the difference between "active mem" and
>>> BSM.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, August 5, 2016, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> To become a member, one signs the pledge.  To become a bylaws-sustaining
>>> member, one pays dues.
>>>
>>>
>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>
>>> Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 9:42 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> hehe
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> But I did read it.  It doesn't answer  my question.  So perhaps it needs
>>> to be longer to answer my question.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 7:16 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (If only the policy manual weren't so long...  Sorry, I couldn't resist.
>>> Heh.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2016-08-05 20:41, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you Robert, I did, and perhaps I am being slow, that doesn't
>>> explain to me the difference between Active MEM and BSM.  It seems to me
>>> those two categories are identical, yet for nearly every state they vary by
>>> a few.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>
>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
>>> - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>
>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>
>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 6:07 PM, Robert Kraus <robert.kraus at lp.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> See policy manual:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Section 2.05 MEMBERSHIP POLICIES......................
>>> ..........................................................36
>>>
>>> 1) Membership Forms ..............................
>>> ............................................................
>>> ..............36
>>>
>>> 2) Association Levels ..............................
>>> ............................................................
>>> ...............36
>>>
>>> 3) Life Membership Status........................
>>> ............................................................
>>> .............36
>>>
>>> 4) Benefits ............................................................
>>> ..............................................................36
>>>
>>> 5) Benefits Lapse Date ..............................
>>> ............................................................
>>> .............38
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Live Free!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Robert*
>>>
>>> Robert S. Kraus - Dir of Operations
>>> Operations at LP.org
>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>> Ph: 202.333.0008 x 231
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Join today: https://www.lp.org/membership
>>>
>>> LP FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/libertarians
>>>
>>> size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
>>>
>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On Behalf
>>> Of *Caryn Ann Harlos
>>> *Sent:* Friday, August 05, 2016 7:44 PM
>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> *Subject:* [Lnc-business] Newbie question - Membership Report
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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