[Lnc-business] Newbie question - Membership Report

Sat Aug 6 11:53:17 EDT 2016

Sam,

If no one gives a damn, then that info shouldn't be included.

I give a damn and as a member I gave a damn.  I received an email from a
member during this discussion who also gives a damn.

Reminds me of my tour guide at Hoover Dam.  Leave the dam facts to the dam
professionals.

*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>

On Saturday, August 6, 2016, Wes Benedict <wes.benedict at lp.org> wrote:

> A sub-committee of the LNC designed this system, and then the entire LNC
> adopted the system. I'm 200 emails behind on other things so I'm going to
> ask if some of the LNC reps who were around when the system was adopted can
> explain the details and answer some of the detailed questions about what
> are on the reports. I can do more of that once I catch up on things.
>
> I made one serious effort to try to explain the LNC's membership plan to
> our members on page 15 of this LP News:
>
> http://www.lp.org/files/lp_news/2014-4_LP_News.pdf
>
> Learning what the rules in the Policy Manual meant well enough so that I
> could put them in writing in my own words was probably a 40-hour process.
>
> I'll let the rest of the LNC take it from here.
>
> Aaron Starr did not design this system, but I've found he's particularly
> good at explaining some of the ins and outs, so if he happens to be
> available to answer these tough questions, that would be great.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wes Benedict, Executive Director
> Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
> 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314
> (202) 333-0008 ext. 232, wes.benedict at lp.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','wes.benedict at lp.org');>facebook.com/libertarians @LPNational
> Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership
>
> On 8/6/2016 11:06 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>
> Thank you Wes, that was clear and straightforward.
>
> It seems to me that this "active mem" number is not terribly meaningful
> then for the membership report.  A member said to me that this also might
> include some "lifetime donors" that get benefits but are not accorded BSM
> membership under some old scheme.  Is this correct?
>
> I know to some people this seems hopelessly pedantic.  I am a paralegal.
> I am hopelessly pedantic.  It is my super power.  But at least you know I
> truly examined this document.
>
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>
> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 9:06 AM, Wes Benedict <wes.benedict at lp.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','wes.benedict at lp.org');>> wrote:
>
>> If John signed the pledge and paid dues on 1/1/2015, then, at that point,
>> their "Active Membership" and "Sustaining Membership" both expire on
>> 1/1/2016.
>>
>> We start sending renewal letters and renewal emails before people's
>> memberships expire.
>>
>> If John renews his dues on 11/1/2015 (2 months before his expiration
>> date), then his "Active Membership" is extended to 1/1/2017 (per the policy
>> manual), but his "Sustaining Membership" will expire 11/1/2016 (per the
>> bylaws).
>>
>> The above kind of thing is one example of how the two sets of numbers can
>> vary--sometimes records aren't 100% complete updated right when a report is
>> run as well. And sometimes errors are made.
>>
>>
>> Wes Benedict, Executive Director
>> Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
>> 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314(202) 333-0008 ext. 232, wes.benedict at lp.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','wes.benedict at lp.org');>facebook.com/libertarians @LPNational
>> Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership
>>
>> On 8/6/2016 10:52 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>
>> Wes, yes please!
>>
>> I am asking members and no one seems to understand this.
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 8:50 AM, Wes Benedict <wes.benedict at lp.org
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','wes.benedict at lp.org');>> wrote:
>>
>>> Cary, do you want me to answer this question?
>>>
>>> Wes Benedict, Executive Director
>>> Libertarian National Committee, Inc.
>>> 1444 Duke St., Alexandria, VA 22314(202) 333-0008 ext. 232, wes.benedict at lp.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','wes.benedict at lp.org');>facebook.com/libertarians @LPNational
>>> Join the Libertarian Party at: http://lp.org/membership
>>>
>>> On 8/6/2016 10:37 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>
>>> Well you couldn't have signed the Pledge in 1971 since it wasn't around
>>> then ;)
>>>
>>> But I am still confused by your example.  Maybe here is the better
>>> question to help me.
>>>
>>> What does one have to do to have "member benefits" that are not
>>> co-extensive with BSM?  Because it says "active mems" have signed the
>>> Pledge.
>>>
>>> Does this just mean a contribution under $25?
>>>
>>> How can you be an active pledge-signer member (for active mem) and not
>>> be a BSM?  The only way I can see that is if one gave less than $25.
>>>
>>> *In Liberty,*
>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 8:28 AM, Robert Kraus <robert.kraus at lp.org
>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','robert.kraus at lp.org');>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I amy have signed the NAP in 1971. Doesn’t matter when I signed the NAP
>>>> or if I signed the NAP ( for my active membership benefits expire date).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But in this example the ONLY thing the bylaws care about is that I
>>>> contributed $25 within the last year.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thus the last time I did this was $25 on 07/01/15 thus I am no longer a
>>>> BSM as of 07/01/16.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now on the “membership benefits side” – which the Policy Manual
>>>> dictates – I get my “benefits” expire date updated by 12 months from my
>>>> previous date. So if my previous expire date was 08/30/15 and I renewed
>>>> early on 07/01/15 my new expire date is 08/30/16. Thus you can say my BSM
>>>> ended on 07/01/16 yet my ?membership benefits” expire date ends on 08/30/16.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My BSM would not end on 08/30/16 simply because that would violate the
>>>> bylaws since I had not given since 07/01/15.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Keep in mind it really doesn’t matter when your BSM “ends” except for
>>>> counts for delegates 6 months pior to a convention or your status on the
>>>> LNC or JC which requires you to be a BSM.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Live Free!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Robert*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Robert S. Kraus - Dir of Operations
>>>> Operations at LP.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Operations at LP.org');>
>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>> Ph: 202.333.0008 x 231 <202.333.0008%20x%20231>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Join today: https://www.lp.org/membership
>>>>
>>>> LP FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/libertarians
>>>> size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org');>] *On
>>>> Behalf Of *Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 06, 2016 10:16 AM
>>>>
>>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lnc-business at hq.lp.org');>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Newbie question - Membership Report
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ahh okay (you messed up a date in there, I think you meant 7/1/16 in
>>>> the example of BSM expiring).  Is that number even meaningful for
>>>> membership stats?  It is really terribly confusing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It seems in most cases that the two dates would be concurrent.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So in your above example, you had "membership benefits" due to paying
>>>> some money around 8/30/14 prior to agreeing with the NAP which was done on
>>>> 7/1/15.  Because if you had agreed with the NAP and paid money on 8/30/14
>>>> and renewed early on 7/1/15, your BSM membership would still go through
>>>> 8/30/16, correct?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am I understanding this now?  If I am, I am going to write up a
>>>> mini-article on this to explain it to others.  I cannot be the only one
>>>> confounded by this, no one just wasn't obsessed enough to pursue an answer
>>>> since the numbers were negligible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>
>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>
>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
>>>> - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Harlos at LP.org');>
>>>>
>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>
>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 8:06 AM, Robert Kraus <robert.kraus at lp.org
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','robert.kraus at lp.org');>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Sorry meant I would be a BSM until 07/01/2016 not 15.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org');>] *On
>>>> Behalf Of *Robert Kraus
>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 06, 2016 10:05 AM
>>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lnc-business at hq.lp.org');>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Newbie question - Membership Report
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Simple explanation: BSM (Sustaining Membership) is per the bylaws which
>>>> basically says you are a sustaining member if you contribute a total of $25
>>>> within a year and agree to the NAP
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Example – I agree with the NAP and paid $25 for anything on 07/01/2015
>>>> thus I was a “BSM” until 07/01/2015 (I am no longer a “BSM” in this example)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The “Active” (doesn’t matter Mem or Sub) part is dictated by the policy
>>>> manual and relates to “membership benefits” like LP News. For example I
>>>> paid $25 on 07/01/15 to renew my “active membership” but my benefits did
>>>> not expire until 08/30/15. In other words in this example I renewed early.
>>>> According to our rules my “expire” date for “membership benefits” would be
>>>> extended by one year. Thus my new “active membership expire date” is
>>>> 08/30/16. So I am “active” until the end of this month even though I am no
>>>> longer a BSM.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So if I come from the state of PR and am the only “active” member – my
>>>> state will show zero (0) for BSM and one (1) for MEM.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Live Free!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Robert*
>>>>
>>>> Robert S. Kraus - Dir of Operations
>>>> Operations at LP.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Operations at LP.org');>
>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>> Ph: 202.333.0008 x 231
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Join today: https://www.lp.org/membership
>>>>
>>>> LP FB Page: https://www.facebook.com/libertarians
>>>>
>>>> <hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org');>] *On
>>>> Behalf Of *Caryn Ann Harlos
>>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 06, 2016 8:47 AM
>>>> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lnc-business at hq.lp.org');>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Newbie question - Membership Report
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> First line should say on "page 2" of the report.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 6:46 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','carynannharlos at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Joshua, let me explain.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are five columns on page of the report.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 1.  Total "MEM" - this is the total number of constituents in state
>>>> that have signed the pledge - whether they have paid dues or not.  It
>>>> includes inactive folks who are not reflected on this chart.
>>>>
>>>> 2.   Active "MEM"- Current Dues Payer or Lifetime Donor with a signed
>>>> pledge
>>>>
>>>> 3.  Active "SUB" - Current due payer or lifetime donors who have not
>>>> signed the Pledge
>>>>
>>>> 4.  Total Active - that is just adding numbers 2 and numbers 3.
>>>>
>>>> 5. Total BSM- By-Law Definition of "Sustaining Member" and number used
>>>> for delegate count with a parenthetical comment of Art 5-3 that a
>>>> Sustaining member is any Party member who has given at least $25 to the
>>>> party in the prior twelve months, or who is a life member.  By that
>>>> definition, a Pledge signer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What is the different between Numbers 2 and Number 5?  Dues payers?
>>>> Check.  Lifetime donors?  Check.  Signed Pledge?  Check.  That is true for
>>>> both of those categories, so what is the difference?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And the different between those numbers in the states is only a few
>>>> people, and in some states (such as Hawaii, Nebraska, Rhode Island, South
>>>> Carolina), they are exactly the same.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>
>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>
>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington)
>>>> - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Harlos at LP.org');>
>>>>
>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>
>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 6:04 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','planning4liberty at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Active subs need not sign the pledge, I agree.  I don't see that this
>>>> challenges what I said, that MEM don't pay dues and BSM do.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>
>>>> Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 1:40 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','carynannharlos at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I really suggest reading the categories in the membership report - that
>>>> isn't the difference here.  There is a categories for non-pledgers -
>>>> "active subs" - that doesn't answer the difference between "active mem" and
>>>> BSM.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Friday, August 5, 2016, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','planning4liberty at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> To become a member, one signs the pledge.  To become a
>>>> bylaws-sustaining member, one pays dues.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>
>>>> Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 9:42 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','carynannharlos at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> hehe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But I did read it.  It doesn't answer  my question.  So perhaps it
>>>> needs to be longer to answer my question.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Aug 5, 2016 at 7:16 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org
>>>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ken.moellman at lpky.org');>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (If only the policy manual weren't so long...  Sorry, I couldn't
>>>> resist. Heh.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>>
>>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2016-08-05 20:41, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thank you Robert, I did, and perhaps I am being slow, that doesn't
>>>> explain to me the difference between Active MEM and BSM.  It seems to me
>>>> those two categories are identical, yet for nearly every state they vary by
>>>> a few.
>>>>
>>>>

-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
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