[Lnc-business] LP.org website transition botched (as predicted)
Caryn Ann Harlos
carynannharlos at gmail.com
Wed Oct 26 01:10:20 EDT 2016
Still a peaceful conclusion Kevin. You stated a reasonable time frame.
But it is my duty as a committee member to note the Bylaws violation. I am
big on duty - as you know from past discussions with me.
I won't move to suspend the NAP to administer any floggings.
--
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
On Tuesday, October 25, 2016, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com> wrote:
> Great, now I've got to buy off the judicial committee. Sigh*
>
> It was mostly a joke. I know this is your bag, but I'm a thousand miles
> from caring about the bylaws this moment. I'm working on practical
> solutions to anything missing. I understand you're going to tout that
> position. I'm frustrated only because an hour ago we came to what I
> thought was a peaceful conclusion. Now I'm told it's a bylaws violation.
> There's no penalty of being in violation of the bylaws, so best I can tell
> the trajectory I'm on remains the same.
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 11:48 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
> carynannharlos at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','carynannharlos at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> Kevin, I do not believe that is a credible, reasonable or member rights'
>> honouring interpretation of the Bylaws.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *In Liberty,*
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
>> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, October 25, 2016, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ludlow at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hah. Well to be fair it just says they have to be in a permanent
>>> archive on the website. That is still technically the case. It doesn't
>>> actually stipulate they have to be publicly visible, just archived. Just
>>> sayin..
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 11:36 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Kevin, the Party, and the LNC if it does not act (and I consider
>>>> securing a promise that this will be fixed in a matter of days an "act") is
>>>> in violation of the Bylaws. My duty is to protect the membes' rights under
>>>> the Bylaws. I had to make it publicly known that I see the Bylaws
>>>> violation and am committed to making sure it gets fixed. That is my duty
>>>> as representative of the members in my Region.
>>>>
>>>> There is nothing that can be done now, but a website should not have
>>>> gone live that is in violation of our Bylaws.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:27 PM, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Again, duly noted.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure *who* is in violation of the bylaws, but I can't give you
>>>>> them any faster than we're going. Obviously as the one handling these
>>>>> issues, I will take full responsibility for it. And since I'm not sure
>>>>> what it means for me to be in violation of the bylaws.
>>>>>
>>>>> ...and I'm not even trying to be smug, but really, what can I possibly
>>>>> do right this second that knowing that is going to change?
>>>>>
>>>>> ~k
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 11:23 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Everyone, I will chill out a few days as promised, but I want to get
>>>>>> on the record that not having the LNC minutes and link to the LNC Business
>>>>>> List on the website when it went live is a clear Bylaws violation. I am
>>>>>> uninterested in whether or not a marketing firm thinks that is "autustic"
>>>>>> or not. I look forward to this being put to head of the pile to correct.
>>>>>> Whether or not anyone else thinks this should be a priority, our Bylaws say
>>>>>> otherwise. The site should not have went live without this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Secretary or a designee shall promptly post notice for each
>>>>>> session of the National Committee; any National Committee proposed agendas;
>>>>>> and approved minutes of each Convention and open National Committee session
>>>>>> to a permanent archive section on the Party’s website. Any person may
>>>>>> record the National Committee’s proceedings while in open session, or
>>>>>> subscribe to a read-only email list on which LNC votes are recorded.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:05 PM, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks, Ken, for the constructive position.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As noted, I would really like to get actual problems with the site
>>>>>>> organized so that they can be tackled. Staff has been working on testing;
>>>>>>> I have been building the infrastructure.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is very useful to be informed of visible problems so that we can
>>>>>>> address them so any effort you're willing to make in that regard is highly
>>>>>>> appreciated.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ~k
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Ken Moellman <
>>>>>>> ken.moellman at lpky.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've been involved in lots of various projects throughout my IT
>>>>>>>> career. This website project seems to fit the stereotypical IT project.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I personally don't like the layout of the website, but I'm a grumpy
>>>>>>>> "old" man who still likes 2006-era website layouts with drop-down menus and
>>>>>>>> whatnot. The design we need, however, is one targeted at millenials. We
>>>>>>>> know this because of the Johnson campaign's polling. That's the future of
>>>>>>>> this party. I believe that this website accomplishes that task. I'd be
>>>>>>>> interested to see how it looks on a mobile (I'm also still using a
>>>>>>>> Blackberry. Don't ask.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kevin - Thank you for continuing onward with this project, even
>>>>>>>> though you are no longer on the LNC. As one who's been embroiled in
>>>>>>>> volunteer projects that have run over time and over budget, I know how much
>>>>>>>> of a PITA it is to put the time in and also take the inevitable hits. I'm
>>>>>>>> sure you're all too aware, as well. But I wanted to make sure you knew that
>>>>>>>> at least I knew and recognized what's up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chuck, and others with concerns - Let's make a list of the "what's
>>>>>>>> wrong", try to prioritize that list based on importance and easy
>>>>>>>> of resolution, and try to work through them. Any website changeover will
>>>>>>>> take time to fix. I know there are some "broken links" where people
>>>>>>>> externally linked things like LP.org/join ... I have a cool graphic from
>>>>>>>> The Advocates that we used on LPKY.org that has the same problem. These can
>>>>>>>> ad should be resolved.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As the new IT committee is formed, I'm sure we'll be tasked
>>>>>>>> with assessing these issues and implementing fixes. I ask that everyone
>>>>>>>> please be patient. We have 2 weeks until the election is over. If there's
>>>>>>>> anything election-related that's not working, then we definitely need to
>>>>>>>> address that immediately. Otherwise, let's get through Nov 8th and then we
>>>>>>>> can push forward with this and other projects.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>>>>>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>>>>>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 2016-10-25 23:38, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you Kevin. I will cool my jets on that issue for a few days
>>>>>>>> and check back in.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 25, 2016, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No problem, Caryn.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I wouldn't even think days. I would think A day. Staff was
>>>>>>>>> tasked with taking each page from the old Drupal system and importing it
>>>>>>>>> into the new one. As far as I know ALL pages were copied over. They were
>>>>>>>>> copied into 1 of 6 (or so) different page templates that were created to
>>>>>>>>> serve different formats of data. So I'm certain we have everything. Even
>>>>>>>>> if it hadn't been copied over, we still have it and it would just need TO
>>>>>>>>> BE copied over, but I don't believe this is the case. I believe in those
>>>>>>>>> cases the links structure may have changed. We have been updating these so
>>>>>>>>> that all incoming links to the old structure point to the appropriate new
>>>>>>>>> structure and send out PERMANENT REDIRECT notifications to Google and such
>>>>>>>>> (so things are updated).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ~k
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:28 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you Kevin.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> That is why I was asking staff about them. If we are talking a
>>>>>>>>>> matter of days for that content - that is reasonable. If moreso, not so
>>>>>>>>>> much.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 25, 2016, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Caryn,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I genuinely am not trying to avoid those issues. I know content
>>>>>>>>>>> is there. What I'm trying to convey is that from my point of view, if
>>>>>>>>>>> those documents are "opaque" for another 12 hours, I'm okay with that. I
>>>>>>>>>>> realize you might not be, but this goes back to my volunteering work. I
>>>>>>>>>>> have to prioritize work that I am personally responsible for.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So I will happily weigh in with staff and get links to them. I
>>>>>>>>>>> can even check the admin pages and see what the current URL is provided
>>>>>>>>>>> they have been copied and not linked.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> But I really need to know if anything is actually not
>>>>>>>>>>> functioning. This is what my current workload is.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I apologize if any of that sounds dismissive. It's not my
>>>>>>>>>>> intent, but I can't do specific projects for you and/or Chuck or the LNC or
>>>>>>>>>>> whomever else right now as I need to make sure the site is fully
>>>>>>>>>>> functional. If/when it IS fully functional (which it very well may already
>>>>>>>>>>> be), then we can address any missing pieces.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ~k
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:15 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you Kevin for all your work.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I can't though not desire answers on the minutes archives and
>>>>>>>>>>>> LNC business list not being there. That is essential for members and
>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot be optional.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Can staff answer when those can be restored? This is an
>>>>>>>>>>>> acceptable situation of opacity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National
>>>>>>>>>>>> Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 25, 2016, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Caryn,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've always gotten along with you just fine as you're very
>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasonable.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In this case, I respectfully disagree that it's useful to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> deliver a 6-page rant citing the "I told you so" lines when the decision
>>>>>>>>>>>>> has been done, executed, and is live. Further, I have been in this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> business for 20 years now. We had roughly 2.5 hours of outages this
>>>>>>>>>>>>> morning between roughly 7:45AM and 9:15AM EST. This was only because of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the unknown. Staff has spent a lot of time testing this software. It was
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolled over twice already and rolled back just to ensure we COULD roll it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> back if there was a major problem. The point being that we transitioned an
>>>>>>>>>>>>> entire infrastructure from 6 services to ONE, the monthly cost savings
>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be about $500 once everything is in place, and best I can tell
>>>>>>>>>>>>> nothing is broken - there are just complaints that some things are missing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> (which they're definitely not, but I'll concede that perhaps staff hasn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>> finished adding links - I honestly don't know right now).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are no major problems that anyone has reported save for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the overloading this morning. The page content was always intended to /
>>>>>>>>>>>>> has been / and IS preserved. If a link isn't immediately visible, then
>>>>>>>>>>>>> staff can correct that if appropriate.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> IF there are broken links, namely as a URL may have changed
>>>>>>>>>>>>> and needs to be forwarded now, I would really, genuinely like to know so I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> can fix those problems. I offered that to Chuck. I offered it to you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That said, we can start however necessary. I have ostensibly
>>>>>>>>>>>>> worked on this for 3.5 straight weeks. That is not because of the website
>>>>>>>>>>>>> itself, but rather the years of garbaged up infrastructure. We would have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rolled the site out 6 weeks ago if not for all of that. My point being
>>>>>>>>>>>>> that I've been voluntarily taking on FAR more work than was entailed in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> website redesign itself because our infrastructure couldn't handle the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> modern codebase (it is roughly 8 years out of spec).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would ask that you leave whatever issues you have with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> content alone for the time being. I'm not saying they won't be addressed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm saying that it's not a primary concern. The primary concern is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ensuring that the site is running so it can serve up any content. IF there
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a problem with something not loading, we need to know that.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Staff has copied over existing pages and so nothing is lost or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> destroyed or anything of this sort.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I need to convey though, that I am not on the clock for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> people on this thread. I have been, and am continuing to volunteer a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> tremendous amount of time to ensure this is completed smoothly. I am happy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to try and fix things that are broken. I'm very uninterested in listening
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Mr. Molton rant on about his discontent with the structure. It's done.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> That ship sailed in February.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> So that's where I'm at. By all means, please inform me of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> broken pieces so we can look at and correct anything ASAP.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~k
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:01 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> He was writing as a member to a busy elected to SERVE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> members. That means sometimes we will hear things we don't want to and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have to respond to very upset complaints. No matter what anyone says -
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> high-handed responses are not appropriate IMHO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't agree with Chuck's desire to see heads roll. I said
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so respectfully,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can we start again?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 25, 2016, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Caryn,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck opened with whoever made the decision was a MORON and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be FIRED.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think my response was in line.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regardless, I remain open to seeing links broken. I'm sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some still exist. We launched the site this morning. Staff has spent weeks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> testing the site and fixing links and such. I'm all for fixing dead links,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but 6 pages of complaints without any information is not helpful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I'm not a member of the LNC. I'm a volunteer only. So
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don't really owe anyone anything. I've delightfully put in a couple
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hundred hours so far. That's the best I'm willing to do at this point given
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such a response.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> K
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 25, 2016, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin, that was an inappropriate response to concerns of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> member IMHO- his concerns are valid and shouldn't be dismissed as "oh you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Libertarians, you are a minority - we can safely ignore you."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where are the links to the LNC Business list, the old blog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> articles, and the past minutes?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can we have the discussion without sarcasm and without
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> putting down Libertarians as inconsequential?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Caucus <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 8:19 PM, Kevin Ludlow <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ludlow at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Chuck,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the constructive feedback.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll delightfully take credit/responsibility for whatever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and all actions you've written about. Please pardon Nick, Robert, Wes, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anybody else in your crosshairs. I'm sure they'll be relieved to be spared.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not going to read that entire document you've sent as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've spent the last 3 weeks trying to fix the party's infrastructure for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the website TO go live. It was finished two days ago, it was launched last
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> night. That was my call.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What would be useful right now would be if you could point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out the broken links so that we can assign permanent redirects to them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any page content that existed STILL exists. This has been made clear over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and over again. It's possible that some page links have not been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forwarded, but I've been monitoring logs on all 4 servers all day and have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not seen many 404s. The downtime this morning wasn't actually from an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outage, but rather ME under-predicting the load our servers would take.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is admittedly because I didn't have any data to go on because -- well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- we've not really ever kept any before. I made the best prediction I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could; I way under-estimated. The servers were scaled up and unless you're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seeing something different, the site has been running fine all day since
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about 9:45am CST. It was running before that just fine too, but the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> morning surge in traffic overwhelmed it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So anyway, if you'd like to submit broken links, we'd love
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to set up additional forwards. Overall though, I'm pretty happy with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change. I'm happy we've done it before the election - even if it wound up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being delayed from our proposed launch of September 29th.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The old site was very, very bad. I know you're a tech guy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the way. I know words resonate with you and not colors and images and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feelings and emotions. But you comprise a very, very, VERY small portion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the American electorate and the new site was designed to appeal to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people who are visually oriented, not interested in reading walls of text,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and might have the attention span of a few seconds at best (eg: the vast
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> majority of people). It was designed for people who might not care about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Libertarian Party - in hopes that something grabs their attention and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they begin to care. We don't need to "win over" existing Libertarians --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or at least one would think, but it's honestly hard to tell these days.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regardless, it was decided. It's done. You can hate it. But I'd still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> love your help in knowing where links are broken instead of mostly ignoring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another wall of text. That would help ensure that it's in good shape.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you'd like to vent further, feel free to call me at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 512-773-3968 to spare the group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 8:56 PM, Chuck Moulton <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chuck at moulton.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LNC members,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many of the problems I warned about have in fact come to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pass. It is Cassandra's Curse: always right but never believed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> See the exchange from IPR quoted below (in the P.S.) for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> context and institutional memory. I'll quote and discuss some of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highlights here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WARNING #1: TRANSITIONS CAN BE BOTCHED, LEADING TO
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DOWNTIME — AT THE WORST TIME IN THE ELECTION CYCLE FOR SUCH DOWNTIME: THE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This buggy transition was implemented 13 days before the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presidential election. That is the 13th worst day in a 4 year cycle to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unveil a new a new website. There were/are 1,448 better days to change to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a new website in a 4 year cycle.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whatever MORON decided to switch to a new website today
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead of after the election should be immediately FIRED. Do not pass go,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do not collect $200. FIRED. I can't imagine a stupider, more incompetent,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strategically insane decision than pulling the plug on a working website
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and trying out a new, buggy website immediately before a presidential
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> election. It is INSANE.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I like staff, but if Wes Benedict made this idiotic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decision, FIRE HIM IMMEDIATELY.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I like much of the LNC, but if Nick Sarwark made this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idiotic decision, SUSPEND HIM FOR CAUSE IMMEDIATELY (I'll gladly recuse
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself as a member of the Judicial Committee if he appeals).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If Kevin Ludlow made this idiotic decision, RESCIND THE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FEBRUARY 2016 MOTION GIVING LUDLOW UNILATERAL AUTHORITY OVER THE LP'S MOST
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMPORTANT ASSET IMMEDIATELY.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything we were told about a professional transition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that does not suffer from the pitfalls I highlighted was a lie.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It takes significantly more time for lp.org pages to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> load than before. The site has been down on & off all day long. For a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while people were directed to another domain whenever they went to a LP
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> page: libparty.zocalodesign.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WARNING #2: A LOT OF CONTENT IS REMOVED. LACK OF THAT
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CONTENT MAKES IT MUCH HARDER TO ENERGIZE PROSPECTS; GET DONATIONS,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VOLUNTEERS, AND CANDIDATES; AND TRAIN LIBERTARIANS ON BEST PRACTICES.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact (as predicted), a lot of content has been removed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from lp.org.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For example, as chair of the Judicial Committee I wonder
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what happened to the webpage listing bylaws mandated committee members?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where is the link to the LP Business list?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where are the LNC minute archives before 2015?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I could go on and on, but I cover this point more broadly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in my next unheeded warning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was repeatedly assured that content would not be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> removed, except that the front page would be made less cluttered. That was
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a lie.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WARNING #3: BOTH CONTENT REMOVAL AND TRANSITIONS TO A NEW
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SYSTEM MAY LEAD SOME PAGES TO BE REMOVED OR MOVED, BREAKING LINKS TO PARTS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OF THE SITE FROM ALL AROUND THE INTERNET AND MAKING US LOOK UNPROFESSIONAL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WITH 404 ERRORS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The number of 404 errors is shocking! Activists have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been out there for months / years promoting our website by linking to it --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially during this presidential election. Most of those links are now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> broken.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just try clicking on many of these links:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.google.com/search?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> site=&source=hp&q=site%3Alp.org&oq=site%3Alp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been told the solution is just to report each broken
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> link. That is ridiculous! It is completely unprofessional for a website
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transition to be reactive instead of proactive -- especially given that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> broken links probably number in the thousands. We were assured that this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be a professional transition, but that was a lie.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WARNING #4: A NEW SYSTEM REQUIRES RETRAINING STAFF ON
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PROCESSES — TIME THAT COULD HAVE BEEN DEVOTED TO OTHER THINGS. EVEN AFTER
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RETRAINING THERE WILL BE A LEARNING CURVE... EXTRA TIME FOR WEBSITE RELATED
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TASKS THAT COULD HAVE BEEN DEVOTED TO OTHER THINGS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact (as predicted), staff has mentioned that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> website transition has taken staff time that could have been devoted to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other matters in this busy election season.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wes Benedict wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -business_hq.lp.org/2016/006577.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope we can get those things below implemented early
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in 2017,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, and get back to LPedia and many other projects,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're trying to roll out the new LP.org website.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WARNING #5: INTERNAL SCRIPTS THAT CURRENTLY AUTOMATICALLY
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SHOOT DATA TO STATE AFFILIATES SUCH AS THE VOLUNTEER FORM, THE WANT TO BE A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CANDIDATE FORM, THE INFO FORM, ETC. MAY STOP WORKING, WHICH WOULD DEPRIVE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STATES OF A VALUABLE SOURCE OF LEADS DURING A TRANSITION PERIOD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do these all still work? I don't know. I can't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> currently test this as I am not a state chair right now. I hope someone is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> testing this stuff. Based on all of the other monumental errors
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highlighted above, I certainly don't trust whoever oversaw the website
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transition to have done this testing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You all made a monumental error when you voted on this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> website. Please do whatever you can to minimize the damage and triage the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> website that is being butchered before your very eyes. I hope the lost
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> content can be restored and the bugs can be fixed ASAP. Even if everything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is fixed within the next week though, the timing is still horrendous.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Moulton
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Life Member & Monthly Pledger, Libertarian Party
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> P.S. See below for context on this botched website
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transition and eerily accurate prophesies from people with a clue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -business_hq.lp.org/2016/004164.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Our website is a joke. I mean a real, horrible,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> laughable, "maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's 1996 and the www portion of the internet has just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unleashed" joke. It's got ridiculous internal ads all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over it. It's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terribly organized. It uses bad images. It has an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outdated font, not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great font colors, and antiquated font-spacing and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sizing. It barely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> functions on mobile devices. It's full of information it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have. It conveys that we're not a serious
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> organization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -business_hq.lp.org/2016/004283.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We want to do all of these things. So I'm asking you,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just stop what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're doing for 30 seconds, reflect what could happen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> if we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually tried to accomplish this one little task. What
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the WORST
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that could happen? We fail? We're in a very slightly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worse financial
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position than we already are? But now consider what is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the BEST that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could happen? Maybe this tailspin of a cash hole we're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in stops.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MAYBE people would see that the LNC is doing something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> external.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MAYBE people would have their morale boosted just a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> little bit and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be more inclined to donate. MAYBE we could use it as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leverage requesting donations from people.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Moulton wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalrep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ort.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1321872
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's the worst that can happen? It's not $20,000
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wasted. That is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty stupid thinking there... accounting rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economics. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worst that can happen is the site is much worse than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before. A lot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of content is removed. Lack of that content makes it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much harder to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> energize prospects; get donations, volunteers, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidates; and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> train libertarians on best practices. A new system
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> requires
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> retraining staff on processes — time that coupd have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been devoted to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other things. Even after retraining there will be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> learning curve...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extra time for website related tasks that could have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> been devoted to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other things. Will conversion of new visitors go up with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flashy styled website? Maybe, but it could also go down,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potential cost. This is especially likely when the focus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> design/style rather than the technical features under
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the hood. When
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> content is removed it may piss off current donors and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> activists, who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may reduce their donations and activism. Both content
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> removal and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transitions to a new system may lead some pages to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> removed or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moved, breaking links to parts of the site from all
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Internet and making us look unprofessional with 404
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> errors. New
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sites often start out with a few bugs and errors which
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can take a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while to track down... the site may look less
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> professional in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interim. Transitions can be botched, leading to downtime
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> — at the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worst time in the election cycle for such downtime: the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presidential
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> campaign. Internal scripts that currently automatically
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shoot data to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state affiliates such as the volunteer form, the want to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate form, the info form, etc. may stop working,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deprive states of a valuable source of leads during a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> period. That's just what I could come up with off the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> top of my head...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are probably a lot more.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalrep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ort.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1321907
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've launched many large scale sites just in the past
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> year and not a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> single one of those sites had any of the problems you're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> referring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to. They DID – when they were on our development and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> testing servers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> – but not when they went into production. That's how web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> launches
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are done professionally. A thorough maintenance schedule
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be implemented and the website would be designed for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minimal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintainability in the first place. ...also in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accordance with best
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalrep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ort.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1322226
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Furthermore, there is absolutely NO intention to remove
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Libertarian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> content from the website. This crowd has an astounding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spin half-truths and bake them into something entirely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will clarify specifically what is meant by moving them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The FRONT PAGE of a website (for a non-profit, business,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other organization) is NOT to leave people with walls of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> text. It is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to create a fast and positive impression and to get a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> call to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> action.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Having dozens and dozens of options is incredibly poor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> design,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thoroughly proven to be ineffective, and generally an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> archaic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> website idea. The current website is not responsive; it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well (and not at all in some cases) on mobile and tablet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> devices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Moulton wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalrep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ort.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1322257
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great! Somehow in all your emails to the LNC (I read
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every LNC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> business list email) you never mentioned anything about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transition process. All you talk about is design/style.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you can manage a transition process well, that's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wonderful. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certainly hasn't been done in the past. The transition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from FoxPro
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Raiser's Edge was a disaster... it resulted in states
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not receiving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working dumps for a year and a lot of records being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> screwed up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (e.g., deceased coming back to life, etc.). During the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> website
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transition a decade ago, the LNC meeting minutes archive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Success 97 and Success 99 seminars were removed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> See the IT Committee discussion and report (pp. 15-16,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pp. 51-59):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.lp.org/archives/lnc20061111.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If there will be no transition hiccups, that's wonderful
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news. You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still didn't address all the scripts on the website
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right now and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the technical considerations Shane discussed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm concerned about giving management of the transition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job who only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talks about design/style, wants to remove content
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (supposedly...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though I see you have now clarified that), and never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mentions a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transition plan to minimize problems.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's great that you're finally talking about a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transition plan! It's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not my fault it's the first I've heard of it though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are lots of people in the LP (myself included) who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have seen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transitions mismanaged and are worried of a repeat of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disasters. We're not saying the sky is going to fall
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because of you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We're saying the sky has fallen in the past, we have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documented
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence of this, and you don't seem as on top of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process as we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would hope to prevent similar problems. (You also seem
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to lack the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> institutional memory to be aware of these past issues.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter of you not communicating your transition plan and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not a matter of us being overly pessimistic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalrep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ort.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1322261
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry you've had people half-ass these efforts in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the past. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely cannot say I'm surprised. I focus on style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> external world, style IS the most important thing. This
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in no way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> means I neglect the engine, but in 20 years of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delivering projects,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nearly 100% of clients will respond positively to a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> broken system
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that looks amazing over a badass functioning system that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks ugly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's just psychology. Again, it doesn't mean it doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> done.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalrep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ort.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1322267
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've found libertarians have a different psychology than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world. The tech saavy folks will feel talked down to or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ignored if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you only talk about style, ignoring tech under the hood.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ideological folks will feel defensive if you malign
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> content. I fall
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in both categories, as do others on this thread.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just something to keep in mind for the future.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stewart Flood wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalrep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ort.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1322926
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So they're creating a new website committee and giving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it authority
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to screw everything up without having to go back to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LNC to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> approval on which one of their pals they give the money
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Moulton wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalrep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ort.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1322930
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, they created a new committee with unlimited power
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> website. Then they spent the whole time debating an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> $10,000.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Moulton wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalrep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ort.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1322938
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am hugely concerned about giving any one person carte
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blanche over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the website.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 512-773-3968
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Caucus <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 512-773-3968
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 512-773-3968
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================
>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow
>>>>>>>>>>> 512-773-3968
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> ========================================================
>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow
>>>>>>>>> 512-773-3968
>>>>>>>>> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> ========================================================
>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow
>>>>>>> 512-773-3968
>>>>>>> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ========================================================
>>>>> Kevin Ludlow
>>>>> 512-773-3968
>>>>> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ========================================================
>>> Kevin Ludlow
>>> 512-773-3968
>>> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> *In Liberty,*
>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>> Harlos at LP.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org');>
>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Lnc-business at hq.lp.org');>
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ========================================================
> Kevin Ludlow
> 512-773-3968
> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>
>
--
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
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