[Lnc-business] [Lnc-votes] LP.org website transition botched (as predicted)
Sam Goldstein
goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com
Thu Oct 27 11:20:16 EDT 2016
The Radical purge has begun!
Sam
Sam Goldstein
Libertarian National Committee
Member at Large
8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
Indianapolis IN 46260
317-850-0726 Phone
317-582-1773 Fax
On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 11:13 AM, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com
> wrote:
> And now my picture has been removed. Why? I did not object to the "live"
> shots, and I rather preferred that picture.
>
> --
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 7:49 AM, Sam Goldstein <goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Here you go:
>>
>> https://www.lp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/20160526_LNC_P
>> olicy_Manual.pdf
>>
>> Is is hiding on the LNC Minutes page.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sam Goldstein
>> Libertarian National Committee
>> Member at Large
>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>> 317-850-0726 Phone
>> 317-582-1773 Fax
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 9:39 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> To get to the Policy Manual, click on "Meeting Minutes" in the footer.
>>> It appears on the top of the page, followed by the minutes arranged by year.
>>>
>>> I think the "type" of pictures used should either be an individual
>>> decision (my preference) or be based on the recommendation of an expert in
>>> PR/design/something. I am none of those things, and so I don't know what
>>> the most effective sort of picture is. Unless we hear from an expert "all
>>> pictures should look like X in the context of this site and what you're
>>> trying to accomplish" I'm going to stick with board discussions about the
>>> pictures, other than to say people can choose what they want their picture
>>> to look like (within limits - I don't think my request to have mine look
>>> like a lion should be respected...although...) is rather pointless.
>>>
>>> I look forward to a report at the December meeting where some of these
>>> matters can be discussed more fully.
>>>
>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>> Westbrook CT Planning Commission (L in R seat)
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 8:24 AM, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for the laugh this morning at your photo descriptions Daniel,
>>>> lol... :-D
>>>>
>>>> But seriously, that's kinda what I *like* about some of the pictures –
>>>> they help people come across as the diverse individuals we are. I'm not
>>>> saying none of the shots could be better, and if the LNC members you've
>>>> mentioned want to select or provide different photos of themselves, of
>>>> course they should be able to do so. But I'd be disappointed if folks chose
>>>> to reject individuality in favor of "institutional" type photos that look
>>>> like they could have been plucked from a corporate annual report.
>>>>
>>>> Good catch on noticing that the LNC Policy Manual is missing from the
>>>> new site, if that is the case. I tried to do a search, but either it isn't
>>>> loading for me right now, or when you search for results of a term that
>>>> can't be found, it just displays a blank page rather than a notice saying
>>>> it couldn't find the term.
>>>>
>>>> Love & Liberty,
>>>> ((( starchild )))
>>>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>> (415) 625-FREE
>>>> @StarchildSF
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 27, 2016, at 5:00 AM, lnc-votes at hq.lp.org wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have not looked very hard yet, but even at 5 am central in the
>>>> morning the website is godawful slow to load. That's not a bitch, consider
>>>> that informational purposes.
>>>>
>>>> On the LNC page. ( https://www.lp.org/libertarian-national-committee/ )Many
>>>> of us paid for head shots. Moving away from that I think is a bad idea.
>>>> Also, there are a lot of problems with this page from the standpoint of
>>>> basic human psychology. Most of what I say below is Nov. 9th stuff, but I
>>>> think correcting the pictures is a bit more pressing.
>>>>
>>>> Nick's looks real young and innocent. He reminds me of a kindergarten
>>>> student in that picture. It's his picture but I suggest his pro head shot.
>>>> I do think Valerie might like this one though but he convinced her to marry
>>>> him so I think he is past the phase of convincing her he is credible and
>>>> competent.
>>>>
>>>> Arvin's looks surprised like someone just told him he got selected to
>>>> represent the school in the spelling bee and responded with. "REALLY?
>>>> ME?!!!"
>>>>
>>>> Alicia's picture has her looking away and you can't see her eyes. She
>>>> looks occupied. Its not as bad as the others but once again... Pro Head
>>>> shot.
>>>>
>>>> Bill's picture is the one that caught my attention with this
>>>> initially. Bill looks pissed off. He might have been pissed off. I feel
>>>> ya Bill...I get pissed off a lot too like I will be in my next email after
>>>> this one to the list. That said..NOT the picture to use. Pro head shot
>>>>
>>>> I think Larry's is a decent one but why not use a Pro head shot if he
>>>> has one for consistency.
>>>>
>>>> That said... WHY? I now find myself involved in the task that this
>>>> board shouldn't be involved in.. Micromanaging things. But at the same
>>>> time, I am annoyed that staff time was spent deciding on putting these
>>>> pictures here when all of the people I mentioned with "bad" pics in my
>>>> opinion had professional head shots that they PAID for. Also where is
>>>> Sam's? Never mind..I thought it was a broken link but it just failed to
>>>> load the first time. Also, I think his picture is less than flattering
>>>> compared to his head shot. I know there were others that had professional
>>>> head shots. Now we have a bunch of blank spaces and many of our board
>>>> members not looking very inspiring of confidence.
>>>> e
>>>> Additionally, the form of the page. Get the pictures of the people at
>>>> the TOP instead of a Wall O Text mapping out all the regions. Put that
>>>> below the pictures. IF someone needs to figure out their region or is
>>>> interested they will look. Leave the link to the LNC reflector list at the
>>>> top. Also, lose the spot where it lists the region of every member below
>>>> the pictures because almost half the people listed don't have a region.
>>>> Just list the region number in between the word Region and Representative
>>>> where that is listed below each person's name.
>>>> Let's include a place for people's phone numbers that want those
>>>> included. Mine is 504-258-6176.
>>>>
>>>> Also where is the link to the Policy manual these days? I used to be
>>>> able to find it by going to this page. It doesn't seem to be listed here
>>>> anymore and doesn't seem to be in with the bylaws.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>> LNC At Large Member Region:At Large
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 26, 2016, at 05:05 PM, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Kevin. Can you tell me which issues that I mentioned are *not*
>>>> being addressed, and if/when you plan to address them?
>>>>
>>>> I'm also wondering about the specific issue I mentioned in my previous
>>>> message about the LNC page losing information on the way over, because I
>>>> got the impression from your comment "Staff has copied over existing pages
>>>> and so nothing is lost or destroyed or anything of this sort", that this
>>>> should not have occurred. Do you know how it happened in this case, and
>>>> whether it may have happened in other cases as well?
>>>>
>>>> Love & Liberty,
>>>> ((( starchild )))
>>>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>> (415) 625-FREE
>>>> @StarchildSF
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 26, 2016, at 8:32 AM, Kevin Ludlow wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Starchild.
>>>>
>>>> Your feedback is well-taken and to your point, most of the issues you
>>>> mention are being addressed.
>>>>
>>>> -Kevin
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 4:04 AM, Starchild <sfdreamer at earthlink.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 25, 2016, at 9:05 PM, Kevin Ludlow wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks, Ken, for the constructive position.
>>>>> As noted, I would really like to get actual problems with the site
>>>>> organized so that they can be tackled. Staff has been working on testing;
>>>>> I have been building the infrastructure.
>>>>> It is very useful to be informed of visible problems so that we can
>>>>> address them so any effort you're willing to make in that regard is highly
>>>>> appreciated.
>>>>>
>>>>> ~k
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Kevin,
>>>>>
>>>>> Not sure whether you saw my original post to the LNC list informing on
>>>>> a number of actual problems with the site, but in case you missed it, here
>>>>> it is. In light of your explanations in response to Chuck and Caryn, I'm
>>>>> curious about one page which has been ported over to the new site but still
>>>>> somehow lost some information along the way, namely the LNC page (
>>>>> https://www.lp.org/libertarian-national-committee/) which no longer
>>>>> lists any phone numbers or other contact info beyond email addresses. I
>>>>> would like my phone number [(415) 625-FREE] and twitter handle
>>>>> (@StarchildSF) added to that page. (Ideally I think every LNC member's
>>>>> listing should include a phone number at which they can be contacted.)
>>>>> Thanks, and please let me know if you have any questions about anything
>>>>> else I wrote below.
>>>>>
>>>>> Love & Liberty,
>>>>> ((( starchild )))
>>>>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>>> (415) 625-FREE
>>>>> @StarchildSF
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/25/2016 12:53 PM, Starchild wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yesterday, I'm told, the launch of the new and improved LP.org website
>>>>>> took place. And on the whole, at a quick look, I'd say it *is* an
>>>>>> improvement. Both appearance-wise and organizationally, I like the new
>>>>>> site. I wouldn't call the difference earth-shattering, but my initial
>>>>>> impression is generally positive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are however a number of issues that have come to my attention
>>>>>> which could use fixing, some more serious than others:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> • While the site looks good on the web, it looks terrible on my
>>>>>> phone! The "Latest News" boxes show up as long, narrow, unreadable columns
>>>>>> of type with a couple letters on each line. Considering how many people
>>>>>> access websites on mobile devices, fixing this should be a high priority.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> • I don't see either the "Party of Principle" or "Minimum Government,
>>>>>> Maximum Freedom" slogans shown anywhere (a search for key terms doesn't
>>>>>> turn them up). Nor do I see the Nolan Chart except buried in a link. Each
>>>>>> of these ought to be listed prominently, imho. The brief introduction
>>>>>> statement when you click on "Libertarian Party" at the top of the main page
>>>>>> is rather weak ("The Libertarian Party (LP) is your representative in
>>>>>> American politics. We are the only political organization which respects
>>>>>> you as a unique and responsible individual.")
>>>>>>
>>>>>> • The more detailed description of the party has a conservative
>>>>>> leaning. Under "The Libertarian Option" (at
>>>>>> http://libparty.zocalodesign.com/about/ , a URL that like that of
>>>>>> many pages should also be fixed so that it doesn't include the web design
>>>>>> company's website), it reads:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Consider voting Libertarian or joining the Libertarian Party because…
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - We seek to substantially reduce the size and intrusiveness of
>>>>>> government and cut and eliminate taxes at every opportunity.
>>>>>> - We believe that peaceful, honest people should be able to offer
>>>>>> their goods and services to willing consumers without inappropriate
>>>>>> interference from government.
>>>>>> - We believe that peaceful, honest people should decide for
>>>>>> themselves how to live their lives, without fear of criminal or civil
>>>>>> penalties.
>>>>>> - We believe that government’s only responsibility, if any,
>>>>>> should be protecting people from force and fraud.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The first two points above appeal more to conservatives or people on
>>>>>> the right (economic freedoms), while the second two points are more neutral
>>>>>> in terms of left/right appeal. There is no balancing appeal to people on
>>>>>> the left by explicitly mentioning things like a non-interventionist foreign
>>>>>> policy or civil liberties such as ending Prohibition and reining in police
>>>>>> abuse.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> • The URL for the candidate page has changed (hat tip to Thomas
>>>>>> Knapp), and entering the former URL (http://www.lp.org/2016-libert
>>>>>> arian-party-candidates) apparently now results in a page error
>>>>>> rather than connecting people to the new page (
>>>>>> https://www.lp.org/2016-candidates/).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> • If the information about how to subscribe to the LNC email list as
>>>>>> a non-LNC member got ported over, I cannot find it. I would suggest listing
>>>>>> this both on the LNC leadership page, and on the LNC meeting archives page.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> • The LNC page only lists email addresses. Previously at least a
>>>>>> couple LNC members' listings included phone number and/or other info such
>>>>>> as Twitter address, but now those listings are gone and only email
>>>>>> addresses are listed. I would personally like my phone number and Twitter
>>>>>> handle listed, and encourage my colleagues to request their phone numbers
>>>>>> likewise be listed, so that our members can readily reach us directly as
>>>>>> well as in writing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> • Where email addresses are listed on the website (for candidates,
>>>>>> LNC members, staff, college chapter reps., etc.), they are spelled out.
>>>>>> That's unfortunately asking to get us spammed by web-crawling bots that
>>>>>> harvest email addresses. I recommend changing this so that addresses are
>>>>>> listed in a less literal format such as Nick.Sarwark[at]LP.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> • The page https://www.lp.org/_2016/ mentions Johnson and Weld being
>>>>>> our presidential and VP candidates, but the photo next to the text is
>>>>>> *not* a photo of Johnson and Weld, but of Johnson and a woman I'm
>>>>>> guessing is his girlfriend (which is fine, but should be labeled as such so
>>>>>> as not to give visitors the impression that the images reflect the text).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> • Our bylaws are referred to in the info at the bottom of each page
>>>>>> as "LNC Bylaws" rather than "Libertarian Party Bylaws"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> • A number of people (staff, LNC members) are missing photos. To whom
>>>>>> can we send photos of these individuals, if we have them, as well as our
>>>>>> contact info updates for the LNC page?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I realize the site has just been updated; hopefully some of the above
>>>>>> issues are being addressed even as I type this message. And on the bright
>>>>>> side, the new "candidate pledges" section listing candidates who've
>>>>>> signed each pledge is a nice addition, along with the listing by name and
>>>>>> state of life members, candidates, and elected officials, not to mention
>>>>>> the attractive photos from the convention scattered throughout the site. I
>>>>>> like that the membership and donation forms are single-page, and that the
>>>>>> FAQ page addresses arguments against participating in the system at all.
>>>>>> And I love the "Help Us Grow" page (http://libparty.zocalodesign.
>>>>>> com/how-to-help/) and the addition of a "worldwide" link in addition
>>>>>> to the state affiliates and campus organizations! But I would suggest that
>>>>>> link directly to a list of the libertarian parties around the world, with
>>>>>> that page then containing a link to and information about the International
>>>>>> Alliance of Libertarian Parties. Right now it immediately leads offsite to
>>>>>> the IALP page, which is a little confusing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's my feedback at this time. If staff would acknowledge receipt
>>>>>> of this message and keep us appraised of the progress in addressing the
>>>>>> above-mentioned issues, that would be great.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Love & Liberty,
>>>>>> ((( starchild )))
>>>>>> At-Large Representative, Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>> (415) 625-FREE
>>>>>> @StarchildSF
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Ken Moellman <ken.moellman at lpky.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've been involved in lots of various projects throughout my IT
>>>>>> career. This website project seems to fit the stereotypical IT project.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I personally don't like the layout of the website, but I'm a grumpy
>>>>>> "old" man who still likes 2006-era website layouts with drop-down menus and
>>>>>> whatnot. The design we need, however, is one targeted at millenials. We
>>>>>> know this because of the Johnson campaign's polling. That's the future of
>>>>>> this party. I believe that this website accomplishes that task. I'd be
>>>>>> interested to see how it looks on a mobile (I'm also still using a
>>>>>> Blackberry. Don't ask.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kevin - Thank you for continuing onward with this project, even
>>>>>> though you are no longer on the LNC. As one who's been embroiled in
>>>>>> volunteer projects that have run over time and over budget, I know how much
>>>>>> of a PITA it is to put the time in and also take the inevitable hits. I'm
>>>>>> sure you're all too aware, as well. But I wanted to make sure you knew that
>>>>>> at least I knew and recognized what's up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chuck, and others with concerns - Let's make a list of the "what's
>>>>>> wrong", try to prioritize that list based on importance and easy
>>>>>> of resolution, and try to work through them. Any website changeover will
>>>>>> take time to fix. I know there are some "broken links" where people
>>>>>> externally linked things like LP.org/join ... I have a cool graphic
>>>>>> from The Advocates that we used on LPKY.org that has the same
>>>>>> problem. These can ad should be resolved.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As the new IT committee is formed, I'm sure we'll be tasked
>>>>>> with assessing these issues and implementing fixes. I ask that everyone
>>>>>> please be patient. We have 2 weeks until the election is over. If there's
>>>>>> anything election-related that's not working, then we definitely need to
>>>>>> address that immediately. Otherwise, let's get through Nov 8th and then we
>>>>>> can push forward with this and other projects.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ken C. Moellman, Jr.
>>>>>> LNC Region 3 Alternate Representative
>>>>>> LPKY Judicial Committee
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2016-10-25 23:38, Caryn Ann Harlos wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you Kevin. I will cool my jets on that issue for a few days
>>>>>> and check back in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 25, 2016, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No problem, Caryn.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wouldn't even think days. I would think A day. Staff was tasked
>>>>>>> with taking each page from the old Drupal system and importing it into the
>>>>>>> new one. As far as I know ALL pages were copied over. They were copied
>>>>>>> into 1 of 6 (or so) different page templates that were created to serve
>>>>>>> different formats of data. So I'm certain we have everything. Even if it
>>>>>>> hadn't been copied over, we still have it and it would just need TO BE
>>>>>>> copied over, but I don't believe this is the case. I believe in those
>>>>>>> cases the links structure may have changed. We have been updating these so
>>>>>>> that all incoming links to the old structure point to the appropriate new
>>>>>>> structure and send out PERMANENT REDIRECT notifications to Google and such
>>>>>>> (so things are updated).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ~k
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:28 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thank you Kevin.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That is why I was asking staff about them. If we are talking a
>>>>>>>> matter of days for that content - that is reasonable. If moreso, not so
>>>>>>>> much.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 25, 2016, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Caryn,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I genuinely am not trying to avoid those issues. I know content
>>>>>>>>> is there. What I'm trying to convey is that from my point of view, if
>>>>>>>>> those documents are "opaque" for another 12 hours, I'm okay with that. I
>>>>>>>>> realize you might not be, but this goes back to my volunteering work. I
>>>>>>>>> have to prioritize work that I am personally responsible for.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So I will happily weigh in with staff and get links to them. I
>>>>>>>>> can even check the admin pages and see what the current URL is provided
>>>>>>>>> they have been copied and not linked.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But I really need to know if anything is actually not
>>>>>>>>> functioning. This is what my current workload is.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I apologize if any of that sounds dismissive. It's not my intent,
>>>>>>>>> but I can't do specific projects for you and/or Chuck or the LNC or
>>>>>>>>> whomever else right now as I need to make sure the site is fully
>>>>>>>>> functional. If/when it IS fully functional (which it very well may already
>>>>>>>>> be), then we can address any missing pieces.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ~k
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:15 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you Kevin for all your work.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I can't though not desire answers on the minutes archives and LNC
>>>>>>>>>> business list not being there. That is essential for members and cannot be
>>>>>>>>>> optional.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Can staff answer when those can be restored? This is an
>>>>>>>>>> acceptable situation of opacity.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 25, 2016, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Caryn,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I've always gotten along with you just fine as you're very
>>>>>>>>>>> reasonable.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> In this case, I respectfully disagree that it's useful to
>>>>>>>>>>> deliver a 6-page rant citing the "I told you so" lines when the decision
>>>>>>>>>>> has been done, executed, and is live. Further, I have been in this
>>>>>>>>>>> business for 20 years now. We had roughly 2.5 hours of outages this
>>>>>>>>>>> morning between roughly 7:45AM and 9:15AM EST. This was only because of
>>>>>>>>>>> the unknown. Staff has spent a lot of time testing this software. It was
>>>>>>>>>>> rolled over twice already and rolled back just to ensure we COULD roll it
>>>>>>>>>>> back if there was a major problem. The point being that we transitioned an
>>>>>>>>>>> entire infrastructure from 6 services to ONE, the monthly cost savings
>>>>>>>>>>> should be about $500 once everything is in place, and best I can tell
>>>>>>>>>>> nothing is broken - there are just complaints that some things are missing
>>>>>>>>>>> (which they're definitely not, but I'll concede that perhaps staff hasn't
>>>>>>>>>>> finished adding links - I honestly don't know right now).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> There are no major problems that anyone has reported save for
>>>>>>>>>>> the overloading this morning. The page content was always intended to /
>>>>>>>>>>> has been / and IS preserved. If a link isn't immediately visible, then
>>>>>>>>>>> staff can correct that if appropriate.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> IF there are broken links, namely as a URL may have changed and
>>>>>>>>>>> needs to be forwarded now, I would really, genuinely like to know so I can
>>>>>>>>>>> fix those problems. I offered that to Chuck. I offered it to you.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That said, we can start however necessary. I have ostensibly
>>>>>>>>>>> worked on this for 3.5 straight weeks. That is not because of the website
>>>>>>>>>>> itself, but rather the years of garbaged up infrastructure. We would have
>>>>>>>>>>> rolled the site out 6 weeks ago if not for all of that. My point being
>>>>>>>>>>> that I've been voluntarily taking on FAR more work than was entailed in the
>>>>>>>>>>> website redesign itself because our infrastructure couldn't handle the
>>>>>>>>>>> modern codebase (it is roughly 8 years out of spec).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I would ask that you leave whatever issues you have with content
>>>>>>>>>>> alone for the time being. I'm not saying they won't be addressed, I'm
>>>>>>>>>>> saying that it's not a primary concern. The primary concern is ensuring
>>>>>>>>>>> that the site is running so it can serve up any content. IF there is a
>>>>>>>>>>> problem with something not loading, we need to know that.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Staff has copied over existing pages and so nothing is lost or
>>>>>>>>>>> destroyed or anything of this sort.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I need to convey though, that I am not on the clock for the
>>>>>>>>>>> people on this thread. I have been, and am continuing to volunteer a
>>>>>>>>>>> tremendous amount of time to ensure this is completed smoothly. I am happy
>>>>>>>>>>> to try and fix things that are broken. I'm very uninterested in listening
>>>>>>>>>>> to Mr. Molton rant on about his discontent with the structure. It's done.
>>>>>>>>>>> That ship sailed in February.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So that's where I'm at. By all means, please inform me of
>>>>>>>>>>> broken pieces so we can look at and correct anything ASAP.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ~k
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 10:01 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> He was writing as a member to a busy elected to SERVE members.
>>>>>>>>>>>> That means sometimes we will hear things we don't want to and have to
>>>>>>>>>>>> respond to very upset complaints. No matter what anyone says -
>>>>>>>>>>>> high-handed responses are not appropriate IMHO.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't agree with Chuck's desire to see heads roll. I said
>>>>>>>>>>>> so respectfully,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Can we start again?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National
>>>>>>>>>>>> Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann. Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 25, 2016, Kevin Ludlow <ludlow at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Caryn,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck opened with whoever made the decision was a MORON and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> should be FIRED.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think my response was in line.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regardless, I remain open to seeing links broken. I'm sure
>>>>>>>>>>>>> some still exist. We launched the site this morning. Staff has spent weeks
>>>>>>>>>>>>> testing the site and fixing links and such. I'm all for fixing dead links,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but 6 pages of complaints without any information is not helpful.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also, I'm not a member of the LNC. I'm a volunteer only. So I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't really owe anyone anything. I've delightfully put in a couple hundred
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hours so far. That's the best I'm willing to do at this point given such a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> response.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> K
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, October 25, 2016, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin, that was an inappropriate response to concerns of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> member IMHO- his concerns are valid and shouldn't be dismissed as "oh you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Libertarians, you are a minority - we can safely ignore you."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where are the links to the LNC Business list, the old blog
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> articles, and the past minutes?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can we have the discussion without sarcasm and without
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> putting down Libertarians as inconsequential?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 8:19 PM, Kevin Ludlow <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ludlow at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey Chuck,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks for the constructive feedback.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'll delightfully take credit/responsibility for whatever
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and all actions you've written about. Please pardon Nick, Robert, Wes, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anybody else in your crosshairs. I'm sure they'll be relieved to be spared.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm not going to read that entire document you've sent as
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've spent the last 3 weeks trying to fix the party's infrastructure for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the website TO go live. It was finished two days ago, it was launched last
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> night. That was my call.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What would be useful right now would be if you could point
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out the broken links so that we can assign permanent redirects to them.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any page content that existed STILL exists. This has been made clear over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and over again. It's possible that some page links have not been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forwarded, but I've been monitoring logs on all 4 servers all day and have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not seen many 404s. The downtime this morning wasn't actually from an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> outage, but rather ME under-predicting the load our servers would take.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is admittedly because I didn't have any data to go on because -- well
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- we've not really ever kept any before. I made the best prediction I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could; I way under-estimated. The servers were scaled up and unless you're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seeing something different, the site has been running fine all day since
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about 9:45am CST. It was running before that just fine too, but the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> morning surge in traffic overwhelmed it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So anyway, if you'd like to submit broken links, we'd love
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to set up additional forwards. Overall though, I'm pretty happy with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> change. I'm happy we've done it before the election - even if it wound up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> being delayed from our proposed launch of September 29th.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The old site was very, very bad. I know you're a tech guy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the way. I know words resonate with you and not colors and images and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> feelings and emotions. But you comprise a very, very, VERY small portion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the American electorate and the new site was designed to appeal to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people who are visually oriented, not interested in reading walls of text,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and might have the attention span of a few seconds at best (eg: the vast
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> majority of people). It was designed for people who might not care about
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Libertarian Party - in hopes that something grabs their attention and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they begin to care. We don't need to "win over" existing Libertarians --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or at least one would think, but it's honestly hard to tell these days.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regardless, it was decided. It's done. You can hate it. But I'd still
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> love your help in knowing where links are broken instead of mostly ignoring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> another wall of text. That would help ensure that it's in good shape.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you'd like to vent further, feel free to call me at
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 512-773-3968 to spare the group.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 8:56 PM, Chuck Moulton <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> chuck at moulton.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LNC members,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Many of the problems I warned about have in fact come to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pass. It is Cassandra's Curse: always right but never believed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> See the exchange from IPR quoted below (in the P.S.) for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> context and institutional memory. I'll quote and discuss some of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> highlights here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WARNING #1: TRANSITIONS CAN BE BOTCHED, LEADING TO DOWNTIME
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> — AT THE WORST TIME IN THE ELECTION CYCLE FOR SUCH DOWNTIME: THE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This buggy transition was implemented 13 days before the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presidential election. That is the 13th worst day in a 4 year cycle to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unveil a new a new website. There were/are 1,448 better days to change to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a new website in a 4 year cycle.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Whatever MORON decided to switch to a new website today
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead of after the election should be immediately FIRED. Do not pass go,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> do not collect $200. FIRED. I can't imagine a stupider, more incompetent,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> strategically insane decision than pulling the plug on a working website
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and trying out a new, buggy website immediately before a presidential
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> election. It is INSANE.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I like staff, but if Wes Benedict made this idiotic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> decision, FIRE HIM IMMEDIATELY.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I like much of the LNC, but if Nick Sarwark made this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> idiotic decision, SUSPEND HIM FOR CAUSE IMMEDIATELY (I'll gladly recuse
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> myself as a member of the Judicial Committee if he appeals).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If Kevin Ludlow made this idiotic decision, RESCIND THE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> FEBRUARY 2016 MOTION GIVING LUDLOW UNILATERAL AUTHORITY OVER THE LP'S MOST
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMPORTANT ASSET IMMEDIATELY.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything we were told about a professional transition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that does not suffer from the pitfalls I highlighted was a lie.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It takes significantly more time for lp.org pages to load
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than before. The site has been down on & off all day long. For a while
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people were directed to another domain whenever they went to a LP page:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> libparty.zocalodesign.com.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WARNING #2: A LOT OF CONTENT IS REMOVED. LACK OF THAT
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CONTENT MAKES IT MUCH HARDER TO ENERGIZE PROSPECTS; GET DONATIONS,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VOLUNTEERS, AND CANDIDATES; AND TRAIN LIBERTARIANS ON BEST PRACTICES.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact (as predicted), a lot of content has been removed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from lp.org.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For example, as chair of the Judicial Committee I wonder
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what happened to the webpage listing bylaws mandated committee members?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where is the link to the LP Business list?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where are the LNC minute archives before 2015?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I could go on and on, but I cover this point more broadly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in my next unheeded warning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I was repeatedly assured that content would not be removed,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> except that the front page would be made less cluttered. That was a lie.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WARNING #3: BOTH CONTENT REMOVAL AND TRANSITIONS TO A NEW
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SYSTEM MAY LEAD SOME PAGES TO BE REMOVED OR MOVED, BREAKING LINKS TO PARTS
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OF THE SITE FROM ALL AROUND THE INTERNET AND MAKING US LOOK UNPROFESSIONAL
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WITH 404 ERRORS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The number of 404 errors is shocking! Activists have been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out there for months / years promoting our website by linking to it --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> especially during this presidential election. Most of those links are now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> broken.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just try clicking on many of these links:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.google.com/search?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> site=&source=hp&q=site%3Alp.org&oq=site%3Alp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been told the solution is just to report each broken
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> link. That is ridiculous! It is completely unprofessional for a website
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transition to be reactive instead of proactive -- especially given that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> broken links probably number in the thousands. We were assured that this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be a professional transition, but that was a lie.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WARNING #4: A NEW SYSTEM REQUIRES RETRAINING STAFF ON
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> PROCESSES — TIME THAT COULD HAVE BEEN DEVOTED TO OTHER THINGS. EVEN AFTER
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> RETRAINING THERE WILL BE A LEARNING CURVE... EXTRA TIME FOR WEBSITE RELATED
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TASKS THAT COULD HAVE BEEN DEVOTED TO OTHER THINGS.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact (as predicted), staff has mentioned that the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> website transition has taken staff time that could have been devoted to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other matters in this busy election season.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wes Benedict wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -business_hq.lp.org/2016/006577.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I hope we can get those things below implemented early in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2017,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> however, and get back to LPedia and many other projects,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but first
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're trying to roll out the new LP.org website.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WARNING #5: INTERNAL SCRIPTS THAT CURRENTLY AUTOMATICALLY
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SHOOT DATA TO STATE AFFILIATES SUCH AS THE VOLUNTEER FORM, THE WANT TO BE A
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> CANDIDATE FORM, THE INFO FORM, ETC. MAY STOP WORKING, WHICH WOULD DEPRIVE
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> STATES OF A VALUABLE SOURCE OF LEADS DURING A TRANSITION PERIOD.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Do these all still work? I don't know. I can't currently
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> test this as I am not a state chair right now. I hope someone is testing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this stuff. Based on all of the other monumental errors highlighted above,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I certainly don't trust whoever oversaw the website transition to have done
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this testing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You all made a monumental error when you voted on this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> website. Please do whatever you can to minimize the damage and triage the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> website that is being butchered before your very eyes. I hope the lost
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> content can be restored and the bugs can be fixed ASAP. Even if everything
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is fixed within the next week though, the timing is still horrendous.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Moulton
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Life Member & Monthly Pledger, Libertarian Party
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> P.S. See below for context on this botched website
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transition and eerily accurate prophesies from people with a clue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -business_hq.lp.org/2016/004164.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) Our website is a joke. I mean a real, horrible,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> laughable, "maybe
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's 1996 and the www portion of the internet has just been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unleashed" joke. It's got ridiculous internal ads all over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it. It's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> terribly organized. It uses bad images. It has an outdated
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> font, not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great font colors, and antiquated font-spacing and sizing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It barely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> functions on mobile devices. It's full of information it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to have. It conveys that we're not a serious organization.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -business_hq.lp.org/2016/004283.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We want to do all of these things. So I'm asking you, just
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stop what
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you're doing for 30 seconds, reflect what could happen if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually tried to accomplish this one little task. What is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the WORST
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that could happen? We fail? We're in a very slightly worse
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> financial
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> position than we already are? But now consider what is the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BEST that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could happen? Maybe this tailspin of a cash hole we're in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stops.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MAYBE people would see that the LNC is doing something
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> external.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> MAYBE people would have their morale boosted just a little
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bit and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be more inclined to donate. MAYBE we could use it as a way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> leverage requesting donations from people.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Moulton wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalrep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ort.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1321872
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What's the worst that can happen? It's not $20,000 wasted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pretty stupid thinking there... accounting rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> economics. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worst that can happen is the site is much worse than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before. A lot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of content is removed. Lack of that content makes it much
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> harder to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> energize prospects; get donations, volunteers, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidates; and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> train libertarians on best practices. A new system requires
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> retraining staff on processes — time that coupd have been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> devoted to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other things. Even after retraining there will be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> learning curve...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> extra time for website related tasks that could have been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> devoted to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other things. Will conversion of new visitors go up with a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> new
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> flashy styled website? Maybe, but it could also go down,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> potential cost. This is especially likely when the focus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> design/style rather than the technical features under the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hood. When
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> content is removed it may piss off current donors and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> activists, who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> may reduce their donations and activism. Both content
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> removal and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transitions to a new system may lead some pages to be
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> removed or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moved, breaking links to parts of the site from all around
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Internet and making us look unprofessional with 404
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> errors. New
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sites often start out with a few bugs and errors which can
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> take a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while to track down... the site may look less professional
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> interim. Transitions can be botched, leading to downtime —
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> worst time in the election cycle for such downtime: the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> presidential
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> campaign. Internal scripts that currently automatically
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shoot data to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state affiliates such as the volunteer form, the want to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> candidate form, the info form, etc. may stop working,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which would
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deprive states of a valuable source of leads during a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> period. That's just what I could come up with off the top
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of my head...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are probably a lot more.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalrep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ort.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1321907
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've launched many large scale sites just in the past year
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and not a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> single one of those sites had any of the problems you're
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> referring
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to. They DID – when they were on our development and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> testing servers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> – but not when they went into production. That's how web
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> launches
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are done professionally. A thorough maintenance schedule
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would also
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be implemented and the website would be designed for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> minimal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintainability in the first place. ...also in accordance
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with best
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalrep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ort.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1322226
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Furthermore, there is absolutely NO intention to remove
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Libertarian
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> content from the website. This crowd has an astounding
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ability to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spin half-truths and bake them into something entirely
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> different. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will clarify specifically what is meant by moving them
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> around.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The FRONT PAGE of a website (for a non-profit, business,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other organization) is NOT to leave people with walls of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> text. It is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to create a fast and positive impression and to get a call
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> action.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Having dozens and dozens of options is incredibly poor
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> design,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thoroughly proven to be ineffective, and generally an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> archaic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> website idea. The current website is not responsive; it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> does not work
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> well (and not at all in some cases) on mobile and tablet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> devices.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Moulton wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalrep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ort.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1322257
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Great! Somehow in all your emails to the LNC (I read every
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LNC
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> business list email) you never mentioned anything about the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transition process. All you talk about is design/style.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you can manage a transition process well, that's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wonderful. It
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> certainly hasn't been done in the past. The transition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from FoxPro
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to Raiser's Edge was a disaster... it resulted in states
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not receiving
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working dumps for a year and a lot of records being
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> screwed up
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (e.g., deceased coming back to life, etc.). During the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> website
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transition a decade ago, the LNC meeting minutes archive
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Success 97 and Success 99 seminars were removed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> See the IT Committee discussion and report (pp. 15-16, pp.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 51-59):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.lp.org/archives/lnc20061111.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If there will be no transition hiccups, that's wonderful
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news. You
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> still didn't address all the scripts on the website right
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> now and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the technical considerations Shane discussed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm concerned about giving management of the transition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> job who only
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> talks about design/style, wants to remove content
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (supposedly...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though I see you have now clarified that), and never
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mentions a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transition plan to minimize problems.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's great that you're finally talking about a transition
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plan! It's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not my fault it's the first I've heard of it though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There are lots of people in the LP (myself included) who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have seen
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transitions mismanaged and are worried of a repeat of those
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disasters. We're not saying the sky is going to fall
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because of you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We're saying the sky has fallen in the past, we have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> documented
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evidence of this, and you don't seem as on top of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> process as we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would hope to prevent similar problems. (You also seem to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lack the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> institutional memory to be aware of these past issues.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter of you not communicating your transition plan and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> experience,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not a matter of us being overly pessimistic.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalrep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ort.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1322261
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sorry you've had people half-ass these efforts in the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> past. I
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definitely cannot say I'm surprised. I focus on style
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> external world, style IS the most important thing. This in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no way
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> means I neglect the engine, but in 20 years of delivering
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> projects,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nearly 100% of clients will respond positively to a broken
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that looks amazing over a badass functioning system that
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> looks ugly.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's just psychology. Again, it doesn't mean it doesn't
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> done.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalrep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ort.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1322267
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've found libertarians have a different psychology than
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much of the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world. The tech saavy folks will feel talked down to or
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ignored if
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you only talk about style, ignoring tech under the hood.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ideological folks will feel defensive if you malign
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> content. I fall
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in both categories, as do others on this thread.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just something to keep in mind for the future.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Stewart Flood wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalrep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ort.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1322926
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> So they're creating a new website committee and giving it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> authority
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to screw everything up without having to go back to the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LNC to get
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> approval on which one of their pals they give the money to?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Moulton wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalrep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ort.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1322930
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes, they created a new committee with unlimited power
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> over the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> website. Then they spent the whole time debating an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrelevant
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> $10,000.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chuck Moulton wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://independentpoliticalrep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ort.com/2016/02/libertarian-na
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tional-committee-meeting-streaming-now/#comment-1322938
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am hugely concerned about giving any one person carte
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> blanche over
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the website.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 512-773-3968
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 512-773-3968
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> ========================================================
>>>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow
>>>>>>>>>>> 512-773-3968
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> ========================================================
>>>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow
>>>>>>>>> 512-773-3968
>>>>>>>>> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org
>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> ========================================================
>>>>>>> Kevin Ludlow
>>>>>>> 512-773-3968
>>>>>>> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org/>
>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org/>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> ========================================================
>>>>> Kevin Ludlow
>>>>> 512-773-3968
>>>>> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ========================================================
>>>> Kevin Ludlow
>>>> 512-773-3968
>>>> http://www.kevinludlow.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "lncvotes" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to lncvotes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "lncvotes" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to lncvotes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-votes mailing list
>>>> Lnc-votes at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-votes_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "lncvotes" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to lncvotes+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com.
>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> *In Liberty,*
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>
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