[Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2017-03: Cuban Arrests

Thu Feb 16 08:42:20 EST 2017

David, to be clear, I wasn't hiding behind institutional skirts, but being
cautious in case there was evidence of some crime.  I have been burned
before in jumping to a defense only to find out that some initiation of
force did occur.

This is why I went out of my way to communicate with LPNV to see what
information they had.  The Nevada affiliate has not been reactionary in the
past and I knew they would have due diligence.  And I am promised more
information if they can get it as alluded to in the memo.  I will be
casting my vote before this expires (unless my alternate wishes to jump in
which I may consider).

-Caryn Ann

On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 6:34 AM, David Demarest <dpdemarest at centurylink.net>
wrote:

> The point that has been missed in this discussion is that communication by
> government representatives (statists) is inevitably distorted by their
> guiding “principle” that the ends justify the means. As the Cato Institute
> said recently, if you implicitly trust everything represented by government
> officials as the truth, you need to have your head examined. They were
> referring specifically to “scientific studies” on health, nutrition and
> environmental issues and the fact that politics and science mix like oil
> and water and generally result in the objective scientific method being
> thrown out the window. The same applies to Cuban government claims that the
> two Libertarian activists had committed “crimes against society”. If you
> accept that at face value, as Cato said, you need to have your head
> examined.
>
>
>
> Because government authoritarians use the ends, their own personal
> aggrandizement, as justification for their communication means of thinly
> disguised and disingenuous discrediting of all dissidents, I refuse to
> accept the Cuban authorities’ allegations against the two Libertarians.
> From my perspective, based on predictable authoritarian abuse of the truth,
> the burden of proof clearly rests with the Cuban authorities, not with the
> activists.
>
>
>
> Accordingly, my vote on this motions remains an emphatic “YES”. I refuse
> to cave in to the temptation to hide behind institutional skirts by
> abstaining.
>
>
>
> Thoughts?
>
>
>
> ~David
>
>
>
> *Oct 20-22 2017 Omaha Libertarian Strategy Un-Convention*
>
>
>
> *Celebrate Life, Set the Bar High and LIVE FREE*
>
>
>
> ~David Pratt Demarest
>
> LNC Region 6 Representative (IA, IL, MN, MO, ND, NE, WI)
>
> Secretary, LPNE State Central Committee
>
> Cell:      402-981-6469 <(402)%20981-6469>
>
> Home: 402-493-0873 <(402)%20493-0873>
>
>
>
> *From:* Lnc-business [mailto:lnc-business-bounces at hq.lp.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Caryn Ann Harlos
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2017 6:36 PM
> *To:* lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2017-03: Cuban Arrests
>
>
>
> :)
>
>
>
> -Caryn Ann
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 5:28 PM Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Lol
>
>
> Joshua A. Katz
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:27 PM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I suspect, without being sure, that the Sam referenced here is me.
>
>
> Joshua A. Katz
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 6:20 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Sam, I am not so sure that while there is a state we object to
> *diplomatic* pressure.  Diplomatic pressure is peaceful.
>
>
>
> I don't want to go Godwin here but I certainly think at a minimum if there
> was some huge atrocity going on somewhere we wouldn't say "meh say
> nothing."  No the question becomes, as Sam said, who do we believe?  And is
> this in our wheelhouse enough to comment.
>
>
>
> If we believe the activists (and it doesn't appear to be anything like due
> process at all here), and we call for libertarian agitation worldwide, and
> it is a peaceful process, I see no reason why we wouldn't resolve this.
>
>
>
> I am willing to be convinced either way as well.
>
>
>
> -Caryn Ann
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 3:52 PM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Thank you for obtaining this.  Based on this documentation, it seems I'll
> have to choose who to believe - the Cuban authorities are alleging a crime,
> while the arrested deny it.  There is abundant reason to believe the
> activists over the government, but whether or not it is sufficient to make
> public accusations against their government, and call on the US government
> to intervene, I cannot say.  I will think on it a bit more.
>
>
>
>
> Joshua A. Katz
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 4:27 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I inquired with LPNV who provided the attached memorandum for our
> consideration.
>
>
>
> -Caryn Ann
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 12:35 PM, William Redpath <wredpath2 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> After reading various emails today, I will also change my vote to
> "Abstain," pending further information.  Thanks, Bill Redpath
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
> On Tue, 2/14/17, Caryn Ann Harlos <carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>  Subject: Re: [Lnc-business] Email Ballot 2017-03: Cuban Arrests
>
>
>  To: "lnc-business at hq.lp.org" <lnc-business at hq.lp.org>
>
>
>  Date: Tuesday, February 14, 2017, 2:11 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>  If only our
>
>
>  government's intervention was as benign as ours.
>
>
>  But I think caution warranted so I
>
>
>  will inquire more of NV and while I would put my own name to
>
>
>  it, I am heeding the counsel of my colleagues and change my
>
>
>  vote to
>
>
>  Abstain
>
>
>  Until I see if there is more
>
>
>  information to commit the organization's voice to
>
>
>  it.
>
>
>  - Caryn Ann
>
>
>
>
>
>  On Tuesday, February 14, 2017,
>
>
>  Daniel Hayes <danielehayes at icloud.com>
>
>
>  wrote:
>
>
>  I am in the "need
>
>
>  more information crowd" before I go intervening and
>
>
>  entangling "overseas".
>
>
>  Daniel HayesLNC At Large
>
>
>
>  Member
>
>
>
>
>
>  Sent from my
>
>
>  iPhone
>
>
>  On Feb 14, 2017, at 10:44
>
>
>  AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>  If, in fact, I can verify
>
>
>  this information, I am mostly in agreement with asking the
>
>
>  US government to apply political pressure.  My concern on
>
>
>  that measure has to do with who is running the US
>
>
>  government.
>
>
>  Joshua A. Katz
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  On
>
>
>  Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 10:36 AM, Whitney Bilyeu <whitneycb76 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>  I agree with Joshua,
>
>
>  and have tried to locate another source...no luck.  I am
>
>
>  also not sure about asking the US government to apply
>
>
>  "political pressure"...
>
>
>  Whitney
>
>
>  Bilyeu
>
>
>  On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at
>
>
>  10:28 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
>
>
>  wrote:
>
>
>  As I alluded to before this email ballot came out,
>
>
>  I am having difficulty with this.  According to this
>
>
>  motion, they were targeted for their activism, and are
>
>
>  unjustly detained.  I suspect this is true, but I need to
>
>
>  see evidence of this before I can endorse this party making
>
>
>  such accusations against a foreign nation.  While nations
>
>
>  often unjust detain people, it is also true that
>
>
>  libertarians can, sometimes, commit crimes.  As of this
>
>
>  moment, I do not even know what charges, if any, have been
>
>
>  presented, so it is hard for me to say that these charges
>
>
>  are false or trumped up.
>
>
>  I previously asked for more
>
>
>  information, and Mr. O'Toole (thank you) forwarded a
>
>
>  blog post from Mises.  I have nothing against Mises, and I
>
>
>  have respect for the Institute, I spent many summers there,
>
>
>  and the Institute supported me through some difficult times.
>
>
>   (Full disclosure:  I do strongly disagree with the
>
>
>  political tact that many associated with Mises have chosen.)
>
>
>   But a blog post from them simply isn't the kind of
>
>
>  information I am seeking.  Do we know of any sources that
>
>
>  can verify that they are being held for their
>
>
>  activism?
>
>
>  Joshua A. Katz
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  On Tue, Feb 14,
>
>
>  2017 at 3:49 AM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>  We have an electronic mail
>
>
>  ballot.
>
>
>
>
>
>  Votes are due to the LNC-Business list by
>
>
>  February 24, 2017 at 11:59:59pm Pacific
>
>
>  time.
>
>
>
>
>
>  Co-Sponsors:  Starchild, Harlos,
>
>
>  Demarest, Vohra
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  Motion:  The Libertarian National
>
>
>  Committee condemns the unjust detention of libertarian
>
>
>  activists Ubaldo Herrera Hernandez and Manuel Velasquez by
>
>
>  agents of the Castro regime in Cuba on February 2, and
>
>
>  demands the immediate safe release of these political
>
>
>  prisoners who were targeted for their peaceful activism
>
>
>  promoting limited government and free markets. We further
>
>
>  ask the U.S. government's State Department to place
>
>
>  diplomatic pressure on the Castro regime for their release,
>
>
>  and encourage Libertarian Party members and supporters to
>
>
>  contact their elected officials toward that end.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  -Alicia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>  ______________________________
>
>
>  _________________
>
>
>  Lnc-business
>
>
>  mailing list
>
>
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>
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>
>
>  --
>
>
>  In
>
>
>  Liberty,Caryn Ann
>
>
>  HarlosRegion 1
>
>
>  Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona, Colorado,
>
>
>  Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>
>
>  Harlos at LP.orgCommunications Director, Libertarian Party of
>
>
>  ColoradoColorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party
>
>
>  Radical Caucus
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>
>
>
>  _______________________________________________
>
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>
>
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>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Lnc-business mailing list
>
>
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
>
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *In Liberty,*
>
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
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>
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>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
> Lnc-business mailing list
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> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>
>
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *In Liberty,*
>
> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>
> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
> Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>
> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>
> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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>
>
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>

-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
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