[Lnc-business] Convention Oversight Committee Housekeeping

Thu Jun 29 12:39:15 EDT 2017

It's fine with me, I just think there's little reason not to, for now at
least, use the narrowest solution.
On Jun 29, 2017 11:36 AM, "Daniel Hayes" <danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:

> Joshua,
>
> What about the language Alicia presented?
>
>
> Daniel
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 29, 2017, at 11:33 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I think the simplest idea might be best. Just make it 5 lnc, 3 non. If we
> or a later lnc want to change it back, we will. That addresses all concerns
> I've seen, I think. I'd cosponsor something to that effect, once I see the
> language.
> On Jun 29, 2017 11:28 AM, "Daniel Hayes" <danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>
>> Alicia,
>>
>> Your points are well taken as are Joshua's.  I had thought of many of the
>> concerns raised but until it gets out there for everyone to kick the tires
>> on, you just don't know how people will respond.  I think dividing the
>> question is probably the way to go.  We haven't heard a big out cry one way
>> or the other. So let me dig something up here and let it rip.
>>
>>
>> Daniel Hayes
>> LNC At Large Member
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 28, 2017, at 7:31 PM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I don't know that the COC will be taking earth-shattering votes on July
>> 3rd.  Maybe there's something bigger on the horizon than I'm thinking, but
>> I think we'd be okay even if Erin were only technically participating as a
>> volunteer for that one meeting.
>>
>> -Alicia
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Sam Goldstein <
>> goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with Alicia's responses above and am OK with her proposed change
>>> to the
>>> policy manual.  This is a matter of some urgency since the next COC
>>> meeting be
>>> on July 3rd.
>>>
>>> Sam
>>>
>>> Sam Goldstein
>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>> Member at Large
>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>> 317-850-0726 <(317)%20850-0726> Phone
>>> 317-582-1773 <(317)%20582-1773> Fax
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 8:11 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Alicia makes very good points.
>>>>
>>>> It seems to really matter in some committees and not as critical in
>>>> others.
>>>>
>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 6:09 PM Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'm not in favor of a general rule which says that once an appointment
>>>>> is made, it is good for the duration of the term even if eligibility
>>>>> changes in the meantime.
>>>>>
>>>>> Consider the Employment Policy and Compensation Committee.  Our policy
>>>>> makes the LNC Chair ineligible to serve.  Suppose a Chair is hit by the
>>>>> proverbial bus.  Suppose the person chosen to fill the Chair vacancy was
>>>>> previously appointed to the EPCC.  Having the Chair (staff supervisor)
>>>>> serve on the EPCC could be a problem.  Suppose the new Chair asks staff to
>>>>> violate some policies.  The EPCC is the entity that the staff should
>>>>> contact in such a situation, but now their boss is on the EPCC, so they're
>>>>> not going to do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Consider the Executive Committee.  The 4 officers are ex-officio
>>>>> members of the ExComm.  Suppose an officer resigns.  Do we want that person
>>>>> to continue to serve on the ExComm, though they're no longer on the LNC?
>>>>>
>>>>> There are probably other examples as well that could be problematic.
>>>>> Let's just address the situation at hand and not monkey with the system
>>>>> further.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 11:53 AM, David Demarest <
>>>>> dprattdemarest at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> From a common sense perspective, I will support the proposal for
>>>>>> adding a provision that a subsequent LNC status change would not affect a
>>>>>> prior Committee appointment for the duration of the committee appointment
>>>>>> term.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2017 1:40 PM, "Joshua Katz" <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there a particular reason we couldn't fix it this way, by email?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Daniel Hayes <
>>>>>>> danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also, the reason for not waiting till August is we will possibly be
>>>>>>>> having some very substantive votes before the August LNC meeting and I
>>>>>>>> would rather have the full COC able to legally vote.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2017, at 1:29 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would be in favour of that.  Often times person who will end up
>>>>>>>> filling LNC vacancies are those involved already somewhere and showing
>>>>>>>> leadership.  I don't think we should be removing those people from
>>>>>>>> consideration to fill a remaining term or making the other committees
>>>>>>>> suffer.  The spirit of the rule is to make a good faith to diversify
>>>>>>>> positions, but having a crystal ball shouldn't be part of it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So I would support.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Caryn Ann
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Daniel Hayes <
>>>>>>>> danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Caryn Ann,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I was actually considering broaching that change for the meeting
>>>>>>>>> in Kansas City.  I think we should add a provision that if you are on a
>>>>>>>>> committee and your status changes by becoming LNC or Alternate or other
>>>>>>>>> such shift like being one of the regional reps on the ASC and you end up
>>>>>>>>> appointed as in an At Large position, you maintain your position on the
>>>>>>>>> committee for the duration of that term.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2017, at 1:09 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I prefer the second.  And wouldn't there be a different
>>>>>>>>> threshold?  If we are going to over-ride the policy manual  - we do it the
>>>>>>>>> right way by editing.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think perhaps this brings up something that might need to be a
>>>>>>>>> permanent change - when people end up on the LNC but were not when they
>>>>>>>>> were appointed.  I would be amenable to looking at something on that route
>>>>>>>>> too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:00 PM, Daniel Hayes <
>>>>>>>>> danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We find ourselves with a bit a problem that needs fixing.  The
>>>>>>>>>> policy manual defines the Convention Oversight Committee as follows:  "Four
>>>>>>>>>> LNC Members or Alternates, plus 3 non-LNC members who are recommended by
>>>>>>>>>> the Convention Oversight Committee"  "LNC members selected by the LNC,
>>>>>>>>>> non-LNC members selected by the LNC Chair".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Erin Adams has moved from being a non-LNC member to being a LNC
>>>>>>>>>> Alternate.  I have two alternatives on how to do it.  I highly value Erin's
>>>>>>>>>> work ethic and contribution to the COC and wish to keep her as a full
>>>>>>>>>> voting member of the committee.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> First, we could just do the following:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Move to ratify Erin Adams, Whitney Bilyeu, William Brackeen, Sam
>>>>>>>>>> Goldstein, Daniel Hayes, Alicia Mattson, and BetteRose Ryan as members of
>>>>>>>>>> the Convention Oversight Committee for the current term, notwithstanding
>>>>>>>>>> any rules in the LNC Policy Manual."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I included all the names because if we ratified one person but
>>>>>>>>>> not the others, that might create some other problem.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This following option is a bit messier but more certain:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Move to amend the chart in the LNC policy manual section 1.03 to
>>>>>>>>>> define the size of the Convention Oversight Committee as,
>>>>>>>>>> 'Seven members composed of up to five LNC Members or Alternates,
>>>>>>>>>> plus up to three non-LNC members who are recommended by the Convention
>>>>>>>>>> Oversight Committee.';
>>>>>>>>>> to sunset upon expiration of the current COC term and to ratify
>>>>>>>>>> Erin Adams' position as a member of the Convention Oversight Committee."
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My reason for the "up to" language is because life has a funny
>>>>>>>>>> way of throwing us twists.  IF for some reason a LNC member of the COC were
>>>>>>>>>> to vacate their seat before the end of their term, I would expect us to
>>>>>>>>>> restore the composition to 4 LNC and 3 non LNC members of the COC. The
>>>>>>>>>> sunset is there to restore the original intent once this term is over.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I am not seeking co-sponsors for either motion yet, as I am
>>>>>>>>>> checking a sense of the body to see which route we prefer to use.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>>>> LNC COC Vice-Chair
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>
>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>
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