[Lnc-business] Convention Oversight Committee Housekeeping

Thu Jun 29 12:41:14 EDT 2017

Also, why allow 6 or 7 when we only need 5? I think we need some carve out
for non LNC participation, so long as a majority is maintained.
On Jun 29, 2017 11:39 AM, "Joshua Katz" <planning4liberty at gmail.com> wrote:

> It's fine with me, I just think there's little reason not to, for now at
> least, use the narrowest solution.
> On Jun 29, 2017 11:36 AM, "Daniel Hayes" <danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>
>> Joshua,
>>
>> What about the language Alicia presented?
>>
>>
>> Daniel
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 29, 2017, at 11:33 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I think the simplest idea might be best. Just make it 5 lnc, 3 non. If we
>> or a later lnc want to change it back, we will. That addresses all concerns
>> I've seen, I think. I'd cosponsor something to that effect, once I see the
>> language.
>> On Jun 29, 2017 11:28 AM, "Daniel Hayes" <danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Alicia,
>>>
>>> Your points are well taken as are Joshua's.  I had thought of many of
>>> the concerns raised but until it gets out there for everyone to kick the
>>> tires on, you just don't know how people will respond.  I think dividing
>>> the question is probably the way to go.  We haven't heard a big out cry one
>>> way or the other. So let me dig something up here and let it rip.
>>>
>>>
>>> Daniel Hayes
>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jun 28, 2017, at 7:31 PM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I don't know that the COC will be taking earth-shattering votes on July
>>> 3rd.  Maybe there's something bigger on the horizon than I'm thinking, but
>>> I think we'd be okay even if Erin were only technically participating as a
>>> volunteer for that one meeting.
>>>
>>> -Alicia
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Sam Goldstein <
>>> goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I agree with Alicia's responses above and am OK with her proposed
>>>> change to the
>>>> policy manual.  This is a matter of some urgency since the next COC
>>>> meeting be
>>>> on July 3rd.
>>>>
>>>> Sam
>>>>
>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>> Member at Large
>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>> 317-850-0726 <(317)%20850-0726> Phone
>>>> 317-582-1773 <(317)%20582-1773> Fax
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 8:11 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Alicia makes very good points.
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems to really matter in some committees and not as critical in
>>>>> others.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 6:09 PM Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm not in favor of a general rule which says that once an
>>>>>> appointment is made, it is good for the duration of the term even if
>>>>>> eligibility changes in the meantime.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Consider the Employment Policy and Compensation Committee.  Our
>>>>>> policy makes the LNC Chair ineligible to serve.  Suppose a Chair is hit by
>>>>>> the proverbial bus.  Suppose the person chosen to fill the Chair vacancy
>>>>>> was previously appointed to the EPCC.  Having the Chair (staff supervisor)
>>>>>> serve on the EPCC could be a problem.  Suppose the new Chair asks staff to
>>>>>> violate some policies.  The EPCC is the entity that the staff should
>>>>>> contact in such a situation, but now their boss is on the EPCC, so they're
>>>>>> not going to do that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Consider the Executive Committee.  The 4 officers are ex-officio
>>>>>> members of the ExComm.  Suppose an officer resigns.  Do we want that person
>>>>>> to continue to serve on the ExComm, though they're no longer on the LNC?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are probably other examples as well that could be problematic.
>>>>>> Let's just address the situation at hand and not monkey with the system
>>>>>> further.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 11:53 AM, David Demarest <
>>>>>> dprattdemarest at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From a common sense perspective, I will support the proposal for
>>>>>>> adding a provision that a subsequent LNC status change would not affect a
>>>>>>> prior Committee appointment for the duration of the committee appointment
>>>>>>> term.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2017 1:40 PM, "Joshua Katz" <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is there a particular reason we couldn't fix it this way, by email?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Daniel Hayes <
>>>>>>>> danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Also, the reason for not waiting till August is we will possibly
>>>>>>>>> be having some very substantive votes before the August LNC meeting and I
>>>>>>>>> would rather have the full COC able to legally vote.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2017, at 1:29 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I would be in favour of that.  Often times person who will end up
>>>>>>>>> filling LNC vacancies are those involved already somewhere and showing
>>>>>>>>> leadership.  I don't think we should be removing those people from
>>>>>>>>> consideration to fill a remaining term or making the other committees
>>>>>>>>> suffer.  The spirit of the rule is to make a good faith to diversify
>>>>>>>>> positions, but having a crystal ball shouldn't be part of it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So I would support.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Caryn Ann
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Daniel Hayes <
>>>>>>>>> danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Caryn Ann,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I was actually considering broaching that change for the meeting
>>>>>>>>>> in Kansas City.  I think we should add a provision that if you are on a
>>>>>>>>>> committee and your status changes by becoming LNC or Alternate or other
>>>>>>>>>> such shift like being one of the regional reps on the ASC and you end up
>>>>>>>>>> appointed as in an At Large position, you maintain your position on the
>>>>>>>>>> committee for the duration of that term.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2017, at 1:09 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I prefer the second.  And wouldn't there be a different
>>>>>>>>>> threshold?  If we are going to over-ride the policy manual  - we do it the
>>>>>>>>>> right way by editing.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think perhaps this brings up something that might need to be a
>>>>>>>>>> permanent change - when people end up on the LNC but were not when they
>>>>>>>>>> were appointed.  I would be amenable to looking at something on that route
>>>>>>>>>> too.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:00 PM, Daniel Hayes <
>>>>>>>>>> danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We find ourselves with a bit a problem that needs fixing.  The
>>>>>>>>>>> policy manual defines the Convention Oversight Committee as follows:  "Four
>>>>>>>>>>> LNC Members or Alternates, plus 3 non-LNC members who are recommended by
>>>>>>>>>>> the Convention Oversight Committee"  "LNC members selected by the LNC,
>>>>>>>>>>> non-LNC members selected by the LNC Chair".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Erin Adams has moved from being a non-LNC member to being a LNC
>>>>>>>>>>> Alternate.  I have two alternatives on how to do it.  I highly value Erin's
>>>>>>>>>>> work ethic and contribution to the COC and wish to keep her as a full
>>>>>>>>>>> voting member of the committee.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> First, we could just do the following:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Move to ratify Erin Adams, Whitney Bilyeu, William Brackeen,
>>>>>>>>>>> Sam Goldstein, Daniel Hayes, Alicia Mattson, and BetteRose Ryan as members
>>>>>>>>>>> of the Convention Oversight Committee for the current term, notwithstanding
>>>>>>>>>>> any rules in the LNC Policy Manual."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I included all the names because if we ratified one person but
>>>>>>>>>>> not the others, that might create some other problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This following option is a bit messier but more certain:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "Move to amend the chart in the LNC policy manual section 1.03
>>>>>>>>>>> to define the size of the Convention Oversight Committee as,
>>>>>>>>>>> 'Seven members composed of up to five LNC Members or Alternates,
>>>>>>>>>>> plus up to three non-LNC members who are recommended by the Convention
>>>>>>>>>>> Oversight Committee.';
>>>>>>>>>>> to sunset upon expiration of the current COC term and to ratify
>>>>>>>>>>> Erin Adams' position as a member of the Convention Oversight Committee."
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My reason for the "up to" language is because life has a funny
>>>>>>>>>>> way of throwing us twists.  IF for some reason a LNC member of the COC were
>>>>>>>>>>> to vacate their seat before the end of their term, I would expect us to
>>>>>>>>>>> restore the composition to 4 LNC and 3 non LNC members of the COC. The
>>>>>>>>>>> sunset is there to restore the original intent once this term is over.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am not seeking co-sponsors for either motion yet, as I am
>>>>>>>>>>> checking a sense of the body to see which route we prefer to use.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>>>>> LNC COC Vice-Chair
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>
>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
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