[Lnc-business] Convention Oversight Committee Housekeeping

Thu Jun 29 20:03:28 EDT 2017

When this rule was created, we thought we needed 4.  Now we think we need
5.  My language allows some flexibility for future LNCs to decide how many
they need without having to amend the policy, so long as it maintains the
minimum number of LNC members.

-Alicia

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 9:41 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Also, why allow 6 or 7 when we only need 5? I think we need some carve out
> for non LNC participation, so long as a majority is maintained.
> On Jun 29, 2017 11:39 AM, "Joshua Katz" <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> It's fine with me, I just think there's little reason not to, for now at
>> least, use the narrowest solution.
>> On Jun 29, 2017 11:36 AM, "Daniel Hayes" <danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Joshua,
>>>
>>> What about the language Alicia presented?
>>>
>>>
>>> Daniel
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jun 29, 2017, at 11:33 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think the simplest idea might be best. Just make it 5 lnc, 3 non. If
>>> we or a later lnc want to change it back, we will. That addresses all
>>> concerns I've seen, I think. I'd cosponsor something to that effect, once I
>>> see the language.
>>> On Jun 29, 2017 11:28 AM, "Daniel Hayes" <danielehayes at icloud.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Alicia,
>>>>
>>>> Your points are well taken as are Joshua's.  I had thought of many of
>>>> the concerns raised but until it gets out there for everyone to kick the
>>>> tires on, you just don't know how people will respond.  I think dividing
>>>> the question is probably the way to go.  We haven't heard a big out cry one
>>>> way or the other. So let me dig something up here and let it rip.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 28, 2017, at 7:31 PM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I don't know that the COC will be taking earth-shattering votes on July
>>>> 3rd.  Maybe there's something bigger on the horizon than I'm thinking, but
>>>> I think we'd be okay even if Erin were only technically participating as a
>>>> volunteer for that one meeting.
>>>>
>>>> -Alicia
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Sam Goldstein <
>>>> goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I agree with Alicia's responses above and am OK with her proposed
>>>>> change to the
>>>>> policy manual.  This is a matter of some urgency since the next COC
>>>>> meeting be
>>>>> on July 3rd.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sam
>>>>>
>>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>> Member at Large
>>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>>> 317-850-0726 <(317)%20850-0726> Phone
>>>>> 317-582-1773 <(317)%20582-1773> Fax
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 8:11 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Alicia makes very good points.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It seems to really matter in some committees and not as critical in
>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 6:09 PM Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm not in favor of a general rule which says that once an
>>>>>>> appointment is made, it is good for the duration of the term even if
>>>>>>> eligibility changes in the meantime.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Consider the Employment Policy and Compensation Committee.  Our
>>>>>>> policy makes the LNC Chair ineligible to serve.  Suppose a Chair is hit by
>>>>>>> the proverbial bus.  Suppose the person chosen to fill the Chair vacancy
>>>>>>> was previously appointed to the EPCC.  Having the Chair (staff supervisor)
>>>>>>> serve on the EPCC could be a problem.  Suppose the new Chair asks staff to
>>>>>>> violate some policies.  The EPCC is the entity that the staff should
>>>>>>> contact in such a situation, but now their boss is on the EPCC, so they're
>>>>>>> not going to do that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Consider the Executive Committee.  The 4 officers are ex-officio
>>>>>>> members of the ExComm.  Suppose an officer resigns.  Do we want that person
>>>>>>> to continue to serve on the ExComm, though they're no longer on the LNC?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There are probably other examples as well that could be
>>>>>>> problematic.  Let's just address the situation at hand and not monkey with
>>>>>>> the system further.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 11:53 AM, David Demarest <
>>>>>>> dprattdemarest at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From a common sense perspective, I will support the proposal for
>>>>>>>> adding a provision that a subsequent LNC status change would not affect a
>>>>>>>> prior Committee appointment for the duration of the committee appointment
>>>>>>>> term.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2017 1:40 PM, "Joshua Katz" <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Is there a particular reason we couldn't fix it this way, by email?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Daniel Hayes <
>>>>>>>>> danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Also, the reason for not waiting till August is we will possibly
>>>>>>>>>> be having some very substantive votes before the August LNC meeting and I
>>>>>>>>>> would rather have the full COC able to legally vote.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2017, at 1:29 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I would be in favour of that.  Often times person who will end up
>>>>>>>>>> filling LNC vacancies are those involved already somewhere and showing
>>>>>>>>>> leadership.  I don't think we should be removing those people from
>>>>>>>>>> consideration to fill a remaining term or making the other committees
>>>>>>>>>> suffer.  The spirit of the rule is to make a good faith to diversify
>>>>>>>>>> positions, but having a crystal ball shouldn't be part of it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So I would support.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Caryn Ann
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Daniel Hayes <
>>>>>>>>>> danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Caryn Ann,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I was actually considering broaching that change for the meeting
>>>>>>>>>>> in Kansas City.  I think we should add a provision that if you are on a
>>>>>>>>>>> committee and your status changes by becoming LNC or Alternate or other
>>>>>>>>>>> such shift like being one of the regional reps on the ASC and you end up
>>>>>>>>>>> appointed as in an At Large position, you maintain your position on the
>>>>>>>>>>> committee for the duration of that term.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2017, at 1:09 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I prefer the second.  And wouldn't there be a different
>>>>>>>>>>> threshold?  If we are going to over-ride the policy manual  - we do it the
>>>>>>>>>>> right way by editing.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think perhaps this brings up something that might need to be a
>>>>>>>>>>> permanent change - when people end up on the LNC but were not when they
>>>>>>>>>>> were appointed.  I would be amenable to looking at something on that route
>>>>>>>>>>> too.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:00 PM, Daniel Hayes <
>>>>>>>>>>> danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We find ourselves with a bit a problem that needs fixing.  The
>>>>>>>>>>>> policy manual defines the Convention Oversight Committee as follows:  "Four
>>>>>>>>>>>> LNC Members or Alternates, plus 3 non-LNC members who are recommended by
>>>>>>>>>>>> the Convention Oversight Committee"  "LNC members selected by the LNC,
>>>>>>>>>>>> non-LNC members selected by the LNC Chair".
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Erin Adams has moved from being a non-LNC member to being a LNC
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alternate.  I have two alternatives on how to do it.  I highly value Erin's
>>>>>>>>>>>> work ethic and contribution to the COC and wish to keep her as a full
>>>>>>>>>>>> voting member of the committee.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> First, we could just do the following:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Move to ratify Erin Adams, Whitney Bilyeu, William Brackeen,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam Goldstein, Daniel Hayes, Alicia Mattson, and BetteRose Ryan as members
>>>>>>>>>>>> of the Convention Oversight Committee for the current term, notwithstanding
>>>>>>>>>>>> any rules in the LNC Policy Manual."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I included all the names because if we ratified one person but
>>>>>>>>>>>> not the others, that might create some other problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This following option is a bit messier but more certain:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Move to amend the chart in the LNC policy manual section 1.03
>>>>>>>>>>>> to define the size of the Convention Oversight Committee as,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 'Seven members composed of up to five LNC Members or
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alternates, plus up to three non-LNC members who are recommended by the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Convention Oversight Committee.';
>>>>>>>>>>>> to sunset upon expiration of the current COC term and to ratify
>>>>>>>>>>>> Erin Adams' position as a member of the Convention Oversight Committee."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My reason for the "up to" language is because life has a funny
>>>>>>>>>>>> way of throwing us twists.  IF for some reason a LNC member of the COC were
>>>>>>>>>>>> to vacate their seat before the end of their term, I would expect us to
>>>>>>>>>>>> restore the composition to 4 LNC and 3 non LNC members of the COC. The
>>>>>>>>>>>> sunset is there to restore the original intent once this term is over.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not seeking co-sponsors for either motion yet, as I am
>>>>>>>>>>>> checking a sense of the body to see which route we prefer to use.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>>>>>> LNC COC Vice-Chair
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>
>>>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>
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