[Lnc-business] Convention Oversight Committee Housekeeping

Thu Jun 29 21:24:38 EDT 2017

Not in favour of having it potentially be all LNC.  And the feedback I have
from Region 1 (only a couple comments to be sure - those who read this
list) very clearly told me that they do not wish for the LNC to have the
option to be more LNC.

-Caryn Ann

On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 6:03 PM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com> wrote:

> When this rule was created, we thought we needed 4.  Now we think we need
> 5.  My language allows some flexibility for future LNCs to decide how many
> they need without having to amend the policy, so long as it maintains the
> minimum number of LNC members.
>
> -Alicia
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 29, 2017 at 9:41 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Also, why allow 6 or 7 when we only need 5? I think we need some carve
>> out for non LNC participation, so long as a majority is maintained.
>> On Jun 29, 2017 11:39 AM, "Joshua Katz" <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It's fine with me, I just think there's little reason not to, for now at
>>> least, use the narrowest solution.
>>> On Jun 29, 2017 11:36 AM, "Daniel Hayes" <danielehayes at icloud.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Joshua,
>>>>
>>>> What about the language Alicia presented?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Daniel
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 29, 2017, at 11:33 AM, Joshua Katz <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I think the simplest idea might be best. Just make it 5 lnc, 3 non. If
>>>> we or a later lnc want to change it back, we will. That addresses all
>>>> concerns I've seen, I think. I'd cosponsor something to that effect, once I
>>>> see the language.
>>>> On Jun 29, 2017 11:28 AM, "Daniel Hayes" <danielehayes at icloud.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Alicia,
>>>>>
>>>>> Your points are well taken as are Joshua's.  I had thought of many of
>>>>> the concerns raised but until it gets out there for everyone to kick the
>>>>> tires on, you just don't know how people will respond.  I think dividing
>>>>> the question is probably the way to go.  We haven't heard a big out cry one
>>>>> way or the other. So let me dig something up here and let it rip.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 28, 2017, at 7:31 PM, Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know that the COC will be taking earth-shattering votes on
>>>>> July 3rd.  Maybe there's something bigger on the horizon than I'm thinking,
>>>>> but I think we'd be okay even if Erin were only technically participating
>>>>> as a volunteer for that one meeting.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Sam Goldstein <
>>>>> goldsteinatlarge at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree with Alicia's responses above and am OK with her proposed
>>>>>> change to the
>>>>>> policy manual.  This is a matter of some urgency since the next COC
>>>>>> meeting be
>>>>>> on July 3rd.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sam
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sam Goldstein
>>>>>> Libertarian National Committee
>>>>>> Member at Large
>>>>>> 8925 N Meridian St, Ste 101
>>>>>> Indianapolis IN 46260
>>>>>> 317-850-0726 <(317)%20850-0726> Phone
>>>>>> 317-582-1773 <(317)%20582-1773> Fax
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 8:11 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alicia makes very good points.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It seems to really matter in some committees and not as critical in
>>>>>>> others.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Caryn Ann
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 6:09 PM Alicia Mattson <agmattson at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm not in favor of a general rule which says that once an
>>>>>>>> appointment is made, it is good for the duration of the term even if
>>>>>>>> eligibility changes in the meantime.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Consider the Employment Policy and Compensation Committee.  Our
>>>>>>>> policy makes the LNC Chair ineligible to serve.  Suppose a Chair is hit by
>>>>>>>> the proverbial bus.  Suppose the person chosen to fill the Chair vacancy
>>>>>>>> was previously appointed to the EPCC.  Having the Chair (staff supervisor)
>>>>>>>> serve on the EPCC could be a problem.  Suppose the new Chair asks staff to
>>>>>>>> violate some policies.  The EPCC is the entity that the staff should
>>>>>>>> contact in such a situation, but now their boss is on the EPCC, so they're
>>>>>>>> not going to do that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Consider the Executive Committee.  The 4 officers are ex-officio
>>>>>>>> members of the ExComm.  Suppose an officer resigns.  Do we want that person
>>>>>>>> to continue to serve on the ExComm, though they're no longer on the LNC?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are probably other examples as well that could be
>>>>>>>> problematic.  Let's just address the situation at hand and not monkey with
>>>>>>>> the system further.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Alicia
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 11:53 AM, David Demarest <
>>>>>>>> dprattdemarest at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> From a common sense perspective, I will support the proposal for
>>>>>>>>> adding a provision that a subsequent LNC status change would not affect a
>>>>>>>>> prior Committee appointment for the duration of the committee appointment
>>>>>>>>> term.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2017 1:40 PM, "Joshua Katz" <planning4liberty at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is there a particular reason we couldn't fix it this way, by
>>>>>>>>>> email?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Joshua A. Katz
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 1:35 PM, Daniel Hayes <
>>>>>>>>>> danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Also, the reason for not waiting till August is we will possibly
>>>>>>>>>>> be having some very substantive votes before the August LNC meeting and I
>>>>>>>>>>> would rather have the full COC able to legally vote.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2017, at 1:29 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I would be in favour of that.  Often times person who will end
>>>>>>>>>>> up filling LNC vacancies are those involved already somewhere and showing
>>>>>>>>>>> leadership.  I don't think we should be removing those people from
>>>>>>>>>>> consideration to fill a remaining term or making the other committees
>>>>>>>>>>> suffer.  The spirit of the rule is to make a good faith to diversify
>>>>>>>>>>> positions, but having a crystal ball shouldn't be part of it.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So I would support.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Caryn Ann
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Daniel Hayes <
>>>>>>>>>>> danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Caryn Ann,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I was actually considering broaching that change for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> meeting in Kansas City.  I think we should add a provision that if you are
>>>>>>>>>>>> on a committee and your status changes by becoming LNC or Alternate or
>>>>>>>>>>>> other such shift like being one of the regional reps on the ASC and you end
>>>>>>>>>>>> up appointed as in an At Large position, you maintain your position on the
>>>>>>>>>>>> committee for the duration of that term.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 28, 2017, at 1:09 PM, Caryn Ann Harlos <
>>>>>>>>>>>> carynannharlos at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I prefer the second.  And wouldn't there be a different
>>>>>>>>>>>> threshold?  If we are going to over-ride the policy manual  - we do it the
>>>>>>>>>>>> right way by editing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I think perhaps this brings up something that might need to be
>>>>>>>>>>>> a permanent change - when people end up on the LNC but were not when they
>>>>>>>>>>>> were appointed.  I would be amenable to looking at something on that route
>>>>>>>>>>>> too.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 12:00 PM, Daniel Hayes <
>>>>>>>>>>>> danielehayes at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> All,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> We find ourselves with a bit a problem that needs fixing.  The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> policy manual defines the Convention Oversight Committee as follows:  "Four
>>>>>>>>>>>>> LNC Members or Alternates, plus 3 non-LNC members who are recommended by
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Convention Oversight Committee"  "LNC members selected by the LNC,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-LNC members selected by the LNC Chair".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Erin Adams has moved from being a non-LNC member to being a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> LNC Alternate.  I have two alternatives on how to do it.  I highly value
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Erin's work ethic and contribution to the COC and wish to keep her as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> full voting member of the committee.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> First, we could just do the following:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Move to ratify Erin Adams, Whitney Bilyeu, William Brackeen,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sam Goldstein, Daniel Hayes, Alicia Mattson, and BetteRose Ryan as members
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the Convention Oversight Committee for the current term, notwithstanding
>>>>>>>>>>>>> any rules in the LNC Policy Manual."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I included all the names because if we ratified one person but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not the others, that might create some other problem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This following option is a bit messier but more certain:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Move to amend the chart in the LNC policy manual section 1.03
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to define the size of the Convention Oversight Committee as,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 'Seven members composed of up to five LNC Members or
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alternates, plus up to three non-LNC members who are recommended by the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Convention Oversight Committee.';
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to sunset upon expiration of the current COC term and to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ratify Erin Adams' position as a member of the Convention Oversight
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Committee."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> My reason for the "up to" language is because life has a funny
>>>>>>>>>>>>> way of throwing us twists.  IF for some reason a LNC member of the COC were
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to vacate their seat before the end of their term, I would expect us to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> restore the composition to 4 LNC and 3 non LNC members of the COC. The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sunset is there to restore the original intent once this term is over.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am not seeking co-sponsors for either motion yet, as I am
>>>>>>>>>>>>> checking a sense of the body to see which route we prefer to use.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Daniel Hayes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> LNC At Large Member
>>>>>>>>>>>>> LNC COC Vice-Chair
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>>>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>>>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>>>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> *In Liberty,*
>>>>>>> *Caryn Ann Harlos*
>>>>>>> Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska,
>>>>>>> Arizona, Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
>>>>>>> Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
>>>>>>> Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
>>>>>>> <http://www.lpcolorado.org>
>>>>>>> Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
>>>>>>> <http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
>>>>>>> Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
>>>>>>> *We defend your rights*
>>>>>>> *And oppose the use of force*
>>>>>>> *Taxation is theft*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Lnc-business mailing list
>>>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>>>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>>>
>>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lnc-business mailing list
>> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
>> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lnc-business mailing list
> Lnc-business at hq.lp.org
> http://hq.lp.org/mailman/listinfo/lnc-business_hq.lp.org
>
>

-- 
*In Liberty,*
*Caryn Ann Harlos*
Region 1 Representative, Libertarian National Committee (Alaska, Arizona,
Colorado, Hawaii, Kansas, Montana, Utah, Wyoming, Washington) - Caryn.Ann.
Harlos at LP.org <Caryn.Ann.Harlos at LP.org>
Communications Director, Libertarian Party of Colorado
<http://www.lpcolorado.org>
Colorado State Coordinator, Libertarian Party Radical Caucus
<http://www.lpradicalcaucus.org>
Chair, LP Historical Preservation Committee

A haiku to the Statement of Principles:
*We defend your rights*
*And oppose the use of force*
*Taxation is theft*
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://hq.lp.org/pipermail/lnc-business/attachments/20170629/994839bc/attachment-0002.html>